Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 6.487

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[487] 487a
ἀναγκαιότατα μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
ἔστιν οὖν ὅπῃ μέμψῃ τοιοῦτον ἐπιτήδευμα, ὃ μή ποτʼ ἄν τις οἷός τε γένοιτο ἱκανῶς ἐπιτηδεῦσαι, εἰ μὴ φύσει εἴη μνήμων, εὐμαθής, μεγαλοπρεπής, εὔχαρις, φίλος τε καὶ συγγενὴς ἀληθείας, δικαιοσύνης, ἀνδρείας, σωφροσύνης;
οὐδʼ ἂν ὁ Μῶμος, ἔφη, τό γε τοιοῦτον μέμψαιτο.
ἀλλʼ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τελειωθεῖσι τοῖς τοιούτοις παιδείᾳ τε καὶ ἡλικίᾳ ἆρα οὐ μόνοις ἂν τὴν πόλιν ἐπιτρέποις; 487b
καὶ ὁ Ἀδείμαντος, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, πρὸς μὲν ταῦτά σοι οὐδεὶς ἂν οἷός τʼ εἴη ἀντειπεῖν. ἀλλὰ γὰρ τοιόνδε τι πάσχουσιν οἱ ἀκούοντες ἑκάστοτε ἃ νῦν λέγεις· ἡγοῦνται διʼ ἀπειρίαν τοῦ ἐρωτᾶν καὶ ἀποκρίνεσθαι ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου παρʼ ἕκαστον τὸ ἐρώτημα σμικρὸν παραγόμενοι, ἁθροισθέντων τῶν σμικρῶν ἐπὶ τελευτῆς τῶν λόγων μέγα τὸ σφάλμα καὶ ἐναντίον τοῖς πρώτοις ἀναφαίνεσθαι, καὶ ὥσπερ ὑπὸ τῶν πεττεύειν δεινῶν οἱ μὴ τελευτῶντες ἀποκλείονται καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ὅτι 487c φέρωσιν, οὕτω καὶ σφεῖς τελευτῶντες ἀποκλείεσθαι καὶ οὐκ ἔχειν ὅτι λέγωσιν ὑπὸ πεττείας αὖ ταύτης τινὸς ἑτέρας, οὐκ ἐν ψήφοις ἀλλʼ ἐν λόγοις· ἐπεὶ τό γε ἀληθὲς οὐδέν τι μᾶλλον ταύτῃ ἔχειν. λέγω δʼ εἰς τὸ παρὸν ἀποβλέψας. νῦν γὰρ φαίη ἄν τίς σοι λόγῳ μὲν οὐκ ἔχειν καθʼ ἕκαστον τὸ ἐρωτώμενον ἐναντιοῦσθαι, ἔργῳ δὲ ὁρᾶν, ὅσοι ἂν ἐπὶ φιλοσοφίαν ὁρμήσαντες μὴ τοῦ πεπαιδεῦσθαι ἕνεκα ἁψάμενοι νέοι ὄντες 487d ἀπαλλάττωνται, ἀλλὰ μακρότερον ἐνδιατρίψωσιν, τοὺς μὲν πλείστους καὶ πάνυ ἀλλοκότους γιγνομένους, ἵνα μὴ παμπονήρους εἴπωμεν, τοὺς δʼ ἐπιεικεστάτους δοκοῦντας ὅμως τοῦτό γε ὑπὸ τοῦ ἐπιτηδεύματος οὗ σὺ ἐπαινεῖς πάσχοντας, ἀχρήστους ταῖς πόλεσι γιγνομένους.
καὶ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας, οἴει οὖν, εἶπον, τοὺς ταῦτα λέγοντας ψεύδεσθαι;
οὐκ οἶδα, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἀλλὰ τὸ σοὶ δοκοῦν ἡδέως ἂν ἀκούοιμι.
ἀκούοις ἂν ὅτι ἔμοιγε φαίνονται τἀληθῆ λέγειν. 487e
πῶς οὖν, ἔφη, εὖ ἔχει λέγειν ὅτι οὐ πρότερον κακῶν παύσονται αἱ πόλεις, πρὶν ἂν ἐν αὐταῖς οἱ φιλόσοφοι ἄρξωσιν, οὓς ἀχρήστους ὁμολογοῦμεν αὐταῖς εἶναι;
ἐρωτᾷς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐρώτημα δεόμενον ἀποκρίσεως διʼ εἰκόνος λεγομένης.
σὺ δέ γε, ἔφη, οἶμαι οὐκ εἴωθας διʼ εἰκόνων λέγειν.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 6.487 focus

[487] 487a Nay, most necessary, he said. Is there any fault, then, that you can find with a pursuit which a man could not properly practise unless he were by nature of good memory, quick apprehension, magnificent,¹ gracious, friendly and akin to truth, justice, bravery and sobriety? Momus² himself, he said, could not find fault with such a combination. Well, then, said I, when men of this sort are perfected by education and maturity of age, would you not entrust the state solely to them?
And Adeimantus said, No one, Socrates, 487b would be able to controvert these statements of yours. But, all the same, those who occasionally hear you³ argue thus feel in this way⁴: They think that owing to their inexperience in the game of question and answer⁵ they are at every question led astray⁶ a little bit by the argument, and when these bits are accumulated at the conclusion of the discussion mighty is their fall⁷ and the apparent contradiction of what they at first said⁸; and that just as by expert draught-players⁹ the unskilled are finally shut in and cannot make a move, 487c so they are finally blocked and have their mouths stopped by this other game of draughts played not with counters but with words; yet the truth is not affected by that outcome.¹⁰ I say this with reference to the present case, for in this instance one might say that he is unable in words to contend against you at each question, but that when it comes to facts¹¹ he sees that of those who turn to philosophy,¹² not merely touching upon it to complete their education¹³ 487d and dropping it while still young, but lingering too long¹⁴ in the study of it, the majority become cranks,¹⁵ not to say rascals, and those accounted the finest spirits among them are still rendered useless¹⁶ to society by the pursuit¹⁷ which you commend. And I, on hearing this, said, Do you think that they are mistaken in saying so? I don’t know, said he, 487e but I would gladly hear your opinion. You may hear, then, that I think that what they say is true. How, then, he replied, can it be right to say that our cities will never be freed from their evils until the philosophers, whom we admit to be useless to them, become their rulers? Your question, I said, requires an answer expressed in a comparison or parable.¹⁸ And you, he said, of course, are not accustomed to speak in comparisons!

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

μνήμων κτλ. The summary is complete, μεγαλοπρεπής being the opposite of ἀνελεύθερος and σμικρόλογος (486 A note).

οἱ ἀκούοντες ‐‐ λέγεις : ‘those who from time to time hear what you now say.’ The text has been suspected, but is, I think, sound. Adimantus implies that the philosopher-king was one of Socrates' favourite themes, as—in one form or another—it certainly was: see on V 473 C. The effect produced by Socrates' usual way of reasoning on the subject is illustrated by a general description of the unsatisfying nature of Socrates' dialectic; and λέγω δ’ εἰς τὸ παρὸν ἀποβλέψας recalls us to the special case. The looseness lies chiefly in the use of ἅ, where οἷα—Steinhart's conjecture — would be expected; but ἅ need not be taken too strictly. Ficinus omits νῦν .

ἡγοῦνται κτλ. Cf. Euthyph. 11 B —D, Men. 80 A , B and the description of the elenchus quoted by J. and C. from Soph. 230 B ff.

μέγα ‐‐ ἀναφαίνεσθαι . For the anacoluthon cf. Ap. 21 C καὶ διαλεγόμενος αὐτῷ, ἔδοξέ μοι, Laws 686 D and Xen. An. III 2. 12. In all these cases the verb used is ἔδοξε, and ἀναφαίνεσθαι is a word of the same kind. Other examples of similar anacolutha are cited by Engelhardt Anacol. Pl. Spec. III p. 39. Richards would read παραγομένοις, but παραγομένοις could hardly mean παραγομένοις ἑαυτοῖς .

ἀποκλείονται κτλ. The simile is probably taken from the game of πόλεις, on which see IV 422 E note φέρωσιν is technical of a move at draughts: cf. Laws 739 A. The balance φέρωσιν— λέγωσιν deserves notice: in both words, stress should be laid on the first syllable. Cf. III 406 B note and Phaed. 83 D with Geddes ad loc. ἐν is used as in Euthyph. 11 C τὰ ἐν τοῖς λόγοις ἔργα ἀποδιδράσκει καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλει μένειν.

ταύτῃ =‘isto modo,’ ‘as you say.’ The simile is imitated by the author of the Eryxias (395 B).

ἔργῳ δὲ ὁρᾶν κτλ. expresses a widely prevalent view in ancient as well as in modern times. It is enunciated with admirable force and vigour by the Platonic Callicles in Gorg. 484 C —486 C: cf. also Theaet. 173 C ff. and Phaed. 64 B . Although Isocrates called himself a φιλόσοφος, he was in general agreement with the popular verdict on Philosophy in the Platonic sense of the term ( τήν τε γεωμετρίαν καὶ τὴν ἀστρολογίαν καὶ τοὺς διαλόγους τοὺς ἐριστικοὺς καλουμένους, as he calls it Panath. 26): see adv. Soph. 1—8, 20, Antid. 258—269 ( διατρῖψαι μὲν οὖν περὶ τὰς παιδείας ταύτας χρόνον τινὰ συμβουλεύσαιμ’ ἂν τοῖς νεωτέροις, μὴ μέντοι περιιδεῖν τὴν φύσιν τὴν αὑτῶν κατασκελετευθεῖσαν ἐπὶ τούτοις κτλ. 268) and Panath. 26— 32 (Spengel Isokr. u. Plato pp. 15 ff., Dümmler Chron. Beitr. pp. 43 ff. and Teichmüller Lit. Fehd. I p. 103. Teichmüller supposes that τις in νῦν γὰρ φαίη ἄν τις κτλ. above is a specific reference to Isocrates, but this is very improbable). The well-known sentiment of Ennius' Neoptolemus “philosophari est mihi necesse, at paucis; nam omnino haut placet. Degustandum ex ea, non in eam ingurgitandum censeo” (ap. Gell. Noct. Att. V 15. 9, 16. 5: cf. Cic. Tusc. Disp. II 1. 1 ff. al.) is probably translated from Euripides, but it admirably expresses the ordinary Roman view. See also on V 473 C, D.

ἀλλοκότους . They have, as we should say, ‘a twist.’

σὺ δέ γε is of course ironical, as σκώπτεις shews. Müller in his translation (p. 53) strangely misses this point.

Plato Republic 6.487

ed. John Burnet

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