Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 4.434

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[434]
καὶ ταύτῃ ἄρα πῃ ἡ τοῦ οἰκείου τε καὶ ἑαυτοῦ ἕξις τε καὶ 434a πρᾶξις δικαιοσύνη ἂν ὁμολογοῖτο.
ἔστι ταῦτα.
ἰδὲ δὴ ἐὰν σοὶ ὅπερ ἐμοὶ συνδοκῇ. τέκτων σκυτοτόμου ἐπιχειρῶν ἔργα ἐργάζεσθαι ἢ σκυτοτόμος τέκτονος, ἢ τὰ ὄργανα μεταλαμβάνοντες τἀλλήλων ἢ τιμάς, ἢ καὶ ὁ αὐτὸς ἐπιχειρῶν ἀμφότερα πράττειν, πάντα τἆλλα μεταλλαττόμενα, ἆρά σοι ἄν τι δοκεῖ μέγα βλάψαι πόλιν;
οὐ πάνυ, ἔφη.
ἀλλʼ ὅταν γε οἶμαι δημιουργὸς ὢν ἤ τις ἄλλος χρηματιστὴς 434b φύσει, ἔπειτα ἐπαιρόμενος ἢ πλούτῳ ἢ πλήθει ἢ ἰσχύι ἢ ἄλλῳ τῳ τοιούτῳ εἰς τὸ τοῦ πολεμικοῦ εἶδος ἐπιχειρῇ ἰέναι, ἢ τῶν πολεμικῶν τις εἰς τὸ τοῦ βουλευτικοῦ καὶ φύλακος ἀνάξιος ὤν, καὶ τὰ ἀλλήλων οὗτοι ὄργανα μεταλαμβάνωσι καὶ τὰς τιμάς, ἢ ὅταν ὁ αὐτὸς πάντα ταῦτα ἅμα ἐπιχειρῇ πράττειν, τότε οἶμαι καὶ σοὶ δοκεῖν ταύτην τὴν τούτων μεταβολὴν καὶ πολυπραγμοσύνην ὄλεθρον εἶναι τῇ πόλει.
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
ἡ τριῶν ἄρα ὄντων γενῶν πολυπραγμοσύνη καὶ μεταβολὴ 434c εἰς ἄλληλα μεγίστη τε βλάβη τῇ πόλει καὶ ὀρθότατʼ ἂν προσαγορεύοιτο μάλιστα κακουργία.
κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
κακουργίαν δὲ τὴν μεγίστην τῆς ἑαυτοῦ πόλεως οὐκ ἀδικίαν φήσεις εἶναι;
πῶς δʼ οὔ;
τοῦτο μὲν ἄρα ἀδικία. πάλιν δὲ ὧδε λέγωμεν· χρηματιστικοῦ, ἐπικουρικοῦ, φυλακικοῦ γένους οἰκειοπραγία, ἑκάστου τούτων τὸ αὑτοῦ πράττοντος ἐν πόλει, τοὐναντίον ἐκείνου δικαιοσύνη τʼ ἂν εἴη καὶ τὴν πόλιν δικαίαν παρέχοι; 434d
οὐκ ἄλλῃ ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἔχειν ἢ ταύτῃ.
μηδέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πω πάνυ παγίως αὐτὸ λέγωμεν, ἀλλʼ ἐὰν μὲν ἡμῖν καὶ εἰς ἕνα ἕκαστον τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἰὸν τὸ εἶδος τοῦτο ὁμολογῆται καὶ ἐκεῖ δικαιοσύνη εἶναι, συγχωρησόμεθα ἤδη—τί γὰρ καὶ ἐροῦμεν; —εἰ δὲ μή, τότε ἄλλο τι σκεψόμεθα. νῦν δʼ ἐκτελέσωμεν τὴν σκέψιν ἣν ᾠήθημεν, εἰ ἐν μείζονί τινι τῶν ἐχόντων δικαιοσύνην πρότερον ἢ ἐκεῖ ἐπιχειρήσαιμεν θεάσασθαι, ῥᾷον ἂν ἐν ἑνὶ ἀνθρώπῳ κατιδεῖν οἷόν ἐστιν. καὶ 434e ἔδοξε δὴ ἡμῖν τοῦτο εἶναι πόλις, καὶ οὕτω ᾠκίζομεν ὡς ἐδυνάμεθα ἀρίστην, εὖ εἰδότες ὅτι ἔν γε τῇ ἀγαθῇ ἂν εἴη. ὃ οὖν ἡμῖν ἐκεῖ ἐφάνη, ἐπαναφέρωμεν εἰς τὸν ἕνα, κἂν μὲν ὁμολογῆται, καλῶς ἕξει·

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 4.434 focus

[434] From this point of view too, then, the having¹ and doing 434a of one’s own and what belongs to oneself would admittedly be justice. That is so. Consider now² whether you agree with me. A carpenter undertaking to do the work of a cobbler or a cobbler of a carpenter or their interchange of one another’s tools or honors or even the attempt of the same man to do both—the confounding of all other functions would not, think you, greatly injure a state, would it? Not much, he said. But when I fancy one who is by nature an artisan or some kind of money-maker 434b tempted and incited by wealth or command of votes or bodily strength or some similar advantage tries to enter into the class of the soldiers or one of the soldiers into the class of counsellors and guardians, for which he is not fitted, and these interchange their tools and their honors or when the same man undertakes all these functions at once, then, I take it, you too believe that this kind of substitution and meddlesomeness is the ruin of a state. By all means. The interference with one another’s business, then, of three existent classes and the substitution of the one for the other 434c is the greatest injury to a state and would most rightly be designated as the thing which chiefly³ works it harm. Precisely so. And the thing that works the greatest harm to one’s own state, will you not pronounce to be injustice? Of course. This, then, is injustice.
Again,⁴ let us put it in this way. The proper functioning⁵ of the money-making class, the helpers and the guardians, each doing its own work in the state, being the reverse of that⁶ just described, would be justice and would render the city just. 434d I think the case is thus and no otherwise, said he. Let us not yet affirm it quite fixedly,⁷ I said, but if this form⁸ when applied to the individual man, accepted there also as a definition of justice, we will then concede the point—for what else will there be to say? But if not, then we will look for something else. But now let us work out the inquiry in which⁹ we supposed that, if we found some larger thing that contained justice and viewed it there,¹⁰ we should more easily discover its nature in the individual man. 434e And we agreed that this larger thing is the city, and so we constructed the best city in our power, well knowing that in the good¹¹ city it would of course be found. What, then, we thought we saw there we must refer back to the individual and, if it is confirmed, all will be well.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

πάντα τἄλλα means everything except what Socrates is about to mention, that is everything except the interchange of rulers and ruled. So J. and C., rightly, I think: cf. 421 A, VII 518 D and Laws 798 D. Other editors explain τἄλλα as “reliquorum opificum opera”; and so also q, reading ἢ πάντα τἄλλα τά γε τοιαῦτα; but it is difficult to extract this meaning out of τἄλλα without τά γε τοιαῦτα, and the asyndeton is also very harsh. Madvig's conjecture ταῦτα is improbable, though adopted by Baiter. Adimantus would catch the meaning all the more easily on account of the similar statement in 421 A, and because πάντα would be pronounced with emphasis, as the asyndeton also indicates. I have removed the comma usually printed after μεταλλαττόμενα; for πάντα τἄλλα includes within its scope all the cases mentioned, and is directly the subject of δοκεῖ.

ἀλλ’ ὅταν κτλ. Plato is probably thinking of Athens again: cf. supra 424 D note and Krohn Pl. St. p. 46. φύσει belongs to ὤν. Hartman needlessly expunges ὤν and reads φύς for φύσει. The subject to ὤν is simply the pronoun ‘he,’ used loosely, as often in English.

βουλευτικοῦ ‐‐ ὤν . “Valde miror editt. verba βουλευτικοῦ καὶ φύλακος ἀνάξιος ὤν concoxisse” cries Hartman. The genitives of course depend on τὸ ( εἶδος), and ἀνάξιος is used absolutely, as often.

μάλιστα κακουργία . μάλιστα is omitted in Ξ and one or two other MSS; but cf. VII 532 B ἔτι ἀδυναμία, VIII 564 A εἰς ἄγαν δουλείαν (with Stallbaum ad loc.), and other examples in Kühner Gr. Gr. II p. 526. That μάλιστα should be taken with κακουργία is clear from μεγίστη βλάβη and κακουργίαν τὴν μεγίστην.

πάλιν : not ‘again,’ but ‘conversely,’ “umgekehrt” (Schneider).

ἑκάστου ‐‐ πόλει is cancelled by Herwerden as a marginal note on οἰκειοπραγία. The words add to the weight and impressiveness of the sentence, and have a decidedly Platonic sound.

τοὐναντίον ἐκείνου . ἐκείνου is ‘the other,’ i.e. πολυπραγμοσύνης (rather than ἀδικίας); and τοὐναντίον is probably nominative, and not adverbial accusative. So also Schneider. It is not necessary to add ὄν after τοὐναντίον as I formerly did. The style of argument is the familiar τόπος ἐκ τῶν ἐναντίων (see Arist. Rhet. II 23. 1397^{a} 7 ff.).

παγίως ‐‐ λέγωμεν : cf. V 479 C παγίως νοῆσαι, Theaet. 157 A νοῆσαι —παγίως, Tim. 49 D . οὐκ ἔστι παγίως νοῆσαι was probably a phrase in vogue among Heraclitus' followers: see Wohlrab on Theaet. l.c.

ἰὸν τὸ εἶδος . εἶδος is not yet the Idea (III 402 C) but refers to οἰκειοπραγία. For ἰόν Richards conjectures ἰοῦσιν; but surely εἰς would then be wrong. How can ‘we’ be said to pass into an individual? The εἶδος is half personified (cf. ὅταν—ἐλθὸν ἐρώτημα ἔρηται VII 538 D); it is said to ‘pass into’ the individual merely because we have discovered it first in the State. See also on ἀπαμβλύνεται 442 D. The passage in Phaedr. 249 B is different, whether we accept Badham's conjecture ἰόντ) or not.

ἣν is a loose internal accusative, exactly like ὅ in 443 B below. The reference is to II 368 D.

ἐκεῖ . The reading ἐκεῖνο, found in Ξ and other second-rate MSS, would probably have been discarded sooner, if it had been known that A as well as Π reads ἐκεῖ. Campbell first pointed this out. ἐκεῖνο is not quite suitable because, although it must mean justice, it suggests something more remote. ἐκεῖ on the other hand helps out the antithesis between ἐν μείζονι—ἐχόντων and ἐν ἑνὶ ἀνθρώπῳ, and is in harmony with ἐκεῖ ἐφάνη below. δικαιοσύνην depends on θεάσασθαι, and τῶν ἐχόντων is ‘its possessors’: cf. II 367 B, D, E. In reciting the sentence, the voice pauses after ἐχόντων and pronounces ἐκεῖ with emphasis. ἐκεῖ (with which cf. ἐκείνου in Parm. 133 D ) was rightly retained by Stallbaum, who did not know that it was the reading of A.

τοῦτο : i.e. τὸ μεῖζον τῶν ἐχόντων δικαιοσύνην.

Plato Republic 4.434

ed. John Burnet

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