Aristote Poetics 25.25

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C'eſt de ce faux préjugé qu'eſt née la Critique qu'on a faite à Homere ſur le ſujet d'Icarius pere de Penelope; car ſes Cenſeurs, prévenus que cet Icarius étoit Lacedemonien, ont fort blâmé ce Poëte de ce que Telemaque arrivant à Lacedemone, va loger ailleurs que chez ſon grand pere. Mais qu'ils faſſent taire auparavant les Cephaleniens, qui ſoûtiennent qu'Ulyſſe ſe maria dans leur païs, & que ſon beau-pere s'appelloit Icadius, & non pas Icarius. Juſques-là, ce qu'ils prennent pour une Critique fort juſte, ne ſera tout au plus qu'une queſtion.

Poetics. Aristote. Paris. 1692.

Current edition Experimental

La poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) (fra) (André Dacier's French translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1692.)

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (4)
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) (Aristotle, Poetics. Immanuel Bekker, editor, Aristotelis Opera, volume 2. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1837.) — 25 focus
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) Perseus (Aristotle, De arte poetica liber. Rudolf Kassel, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1965. Reference edition for passage alignment.) — 25 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's Greek text of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 25 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Franz Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's 1839 Greek edition, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 25 focus
Translations (13)
Poetics (W. H. Fyfe) (OCR draft) Perseus (William Hamilton Fyfe's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, Loeb Classical Library, 1939 printing.) — 25 focus
Arabic Poetics (Badawī edition, 1953) (OCR draft) (The ancient Arabic translation of Aristotle's Poetics in ʿAbd al-Raḥmān Badawī's 1953 edition.) — 25 focus
Poetics (S. H. Butcher, 1911) (OCR draft) Experimental (S. H. Butcher's English translation from Aristotle's Theory of Poetry and Fine Art, fourth edition, 1911.) — 25 focus
Aristotle on the Art of Poetry (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 25 focus
Poetics (Thomas Twining, 1789) (OCR draft) Experimental (Thomas Twining's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1789 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 25.25 focus
Of this kind is the cavil of the critics concerning Icarius 1 . Taking it for granted that he was a Lace-daemonian, they thence infer the absurdity of supposing Telemachus not to have seen him when he went to Lacedaemon. But, perhaps, what the Cephalenians say may be the truth. They assert, that the wife of Ulysses was of their country, and that the name of her father was not Icarius, but Icadius. The objection itself, therefore, is probably founded on a mistake.
The Poetic of Aristotle (Henry James Pye, revised 1792) (OCR draft) Experimental (Henry James Pye's revised 1792 English translation, corrected against the 1788 first edition, aligned to the Kassel reference edition, and supplied with a selective apparatus of substantive 1788 readings.) — 25.25 focus
But whether the things are or are not, what a sensible man might say, can only relate to the things themselves that are said and not to any circumstances attending the saying of them or the things they may have reference to. If a sentiment is such as a sensible man may deliver, it will want no excuse
The Poetic of Aristotle (Theodore Alois Buckley) (OCR draft) Experimental (Theodore Alois Buckley's English translation, first published in 1850 and represented from the Henry G. Bohn 1857 printing; corrected against a second OCR and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 25.25 focus
The objection, also, that something is irrational may be solved by saying, that sometimes it is not irrational; for it is probable that what is improbable may have happened. 1 But with respect to the solution of apparent contraries, these are to be considered in the same manner as 2 3 4 5 elenchi20 in arguments, if the same thing [is affirmed or denied], and with respect to the same thing, and after the same manner, and whether it is the same person [who affirms and denies], and also with what reference he speaks, and what a wise man would understand from his words26. 6 The reprehension [of poets] on the score of improbability27 and vicious manners will be right, through which it is shown, that they have without any necessity devised something irrational.
Poetica Latine conversa (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's Latin translation, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 25 focus
Poetica d'Aristotile (Bernardo Segni, 1549) (OCR draft) Experimental (Bernardo Segni's 1549 Florentine Italian translation, aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 25 focus
De poetica (Antonio Riccobono, 1587) (OCR draft) Experimental (Antonio Riccobono's Latin translation, first published in 1587; text represented from Immanuel Bekker's 1831 edition.) — 25 focus
De arte poetica liber (William of Moerbeke, ca. 1277) (OCR draft) Experimental (William of Moerbeke's medieval Latin translation, represented by the 1953 Aristoteles Latinus edition.) — 25 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition) (OCR draft) Experimental (The Arabic translation attributed to Abū Bishr Mattā, edited by Jaroslaus Tkatsch in 1928 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 25 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition, unaligned) (OCR draft) Experimental (Tkatsch's edition of the medieval Arabic translation in its original, unaligned segmentation.) — 25 focus

Commentary

Commentary on the Poetics (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) (Ingram Bywater's English commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1025

τὸ ἔθος τῆς λέξεως. Vahlen quotes Soph. el. 4, 166 a14
εἰσὶ δὲ τρεῖς τρόποι τῶν παρὰ τὴν ὁμωνυμίαν καὶ τὴν ἀμφιβολίαν, εἷς μὲν ὅταν ἢ ὁ λόγος ἢ τοὔνομα κυρίως σήμαινῃ πλείω, οἷον ἀετὸς καὶ κύων· εἷς δὲ ὅταν εἰωθότες ὦμεν οὕτω λέγειν.

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1026

τὸν κεκραμένον is to my mind a much more probable correction here than the others that have been suggested, τὸ κεκραμένον ( Madius), πᾶν κεκραμένον ( Bursian), (ὅσα) τῶν κεκραμένων ( Vahlen), τῶν κεκραμένων (οἱονοῦν) ( Tucker). τὸν κεκραμένον, with οἶνον in close proximity in the context, means τὸν κεκραμένον οἶνον. There is the same ellipse in Aristoph. Eq. 1187
πιεῖν κεκραμένον τρία καὶ δύο
 ( comp. Gildersleeve, Syntax of Class. Gk. 32 ); and it is certainly not uncommon with ἄκρατος ( comp. ἀκρατοπότης, etc.). The general sense then of the whole passage will be this: In common parlance a mixture of wine and water is said to be 'wine'; and on the same principle Homer's 'tin' may be an amalgam of tin and another metal. Aristotle is apparently replying to some critic who took exception to the idea of the greaves being made of so soft a metal as tin, a point which modern archaeologists also have some difficulty in explaining ( comp. Helbig, Das homerische Epos¹ p. 196 ). 342 COMMENTARY

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1027

οἶνον: Plutarch Coni. praec. 140 F
το κρᾶμα καίτοι ὕδατος μετέχον πλείονος οἶνον καλοῦμεν.
 The fact is recognized and explained in De gen. et corr. 1. 5, 321b35
το ἐπικρατοῦν λέγεται ἐν τῇ μίξει, οἷον ὅτι οἶνος· ποιεῖ γὰρ τὸ τοῦ οἴνου ἔργον ἀλλ᾽ οὐ τὸ τοῦ ὕδατος τὸ σύνολον μίγμα.

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1028

1461a28 κνημὶς νεοτεύκτου κασσιτέροιο: Il. 21. 592 .

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1029

1461a29 χαλκέας. Aristotle adduces this use of χαλκεύς, to justify the language in Il. 20. 234 , on the assumption that by a similar extension of meaning οἰνοχοεύειν may be used for the serving out of nectar as well as that of wine. χαλκεύς and its cognates are often found in this more general sense in the literature after Homer : Schol. Ven. B. Il. 19. 283
παλαιὰ ἡ χρῆσις τοῦ χαλκὸν ὀνομάζειν τὸν σίδηρον. ἀμέλει καὶ χαλκέας λέγομεν τοὺς τὸν σίδηρον ἐργαζομένους.
 — Pollux 7. 106
χαλκεύειν δὲ καὶ τὸ σιδηρεύειν ἔλεγον, καὶ χαλκέας τοὺς τὸν σίδηρον ἐργαζομένους.
 The language in these two passages may be a distant reminiscence of Aristotle's words.

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1030

1461a30 οἰνοχοεύειν: Il. 20. 234
τὸν καὶ ἀνηρείψαντο θεοὶ Διὶ οἰνοχοεύειν.
 On the other hand, we are told elsewhere ( Il. 5. 341 ) that the gods do not drink wine,
οὐ πίνουσ᾽ αἴθοπα οἶνον.
For the infinitive—actually found in the Homeric text— comp. An. post. 2. 30, 97 b 6
τοῦτο δ᾽ εἴρηται μὴ διαφέρειν.
 — Top. 2. 3. 110b3
οὔτ᾽ εἰ παντὶ οὔτ᾽ εἰ μηδενὶ ὑπάρχειν εἴρηται.

21. mvp-aristotle-comment-1031

1461a31 εἴη δ᾽ ἂν τοῦτό γε κατὰ μεταφοράν. Aristotle apparently prefers to explain Homer's use of οἰνοχοεύειν as a metaphor; referring, it would seem, to the μεταφορὰ κατὰ τὸ ἀνάλογον considered in 21, 1457 b 16 sqq.

Remarques sur la poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) (André Dacier's French commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

37. mvp-aristotle-comment-633

25.21 37. Quelquefois on a recours à l'ambiguité, comme dans ce paſſage, où Homere dit que la nuit eſt plus des deux tiers paſſée, & qu'il en reste encore le tiers.] 1

Commentary on the Poetics (Thomas Twining, 1789) (OCR draft) (Thomas Twining's notes on Aristotle's Poetics, aligned to the Kassel reference edition.) focus

248. mvp-aristotle-comment-248

NOTE 248.

25.21 P. 128. WHATEVER IS POURED OUT TO DRINK AS WINE.
Upon v. 363 of Od. Ω. [v. 364] (
—κερώντας αἴθοπα οἶνον—
) Eustathius says —
τουτέστιν, ἐμβάλλοντας εἰς κρατῆρας
: and Gataker remarks, on occasion of the same passage —
"τὸ κεραν, sive κερασαι, licet miscere proprie significet, usurpatur tamen simpliciter ἀντὶ τοῦ, ἐγχεῖν, καὶ διδόναι πιεῖν pro infundere, in calicem scil. sive cyathum, et bibendum porrigere."
1 As a proof that the verb was so used, without the idea of mixing, we meet with it applied to nectar:
—ΚΕΡΑΣΣΕ δὲ νέκταρ ἐρυθρόν.
Od. Ε. 93. The Gods hardly drank nectar and water. But it is even applied to pure water itself:
Θυμῆρες ΚΕΡΑΣΑΣΑ κατὰ κρατός τε καὶ ὤμων.
i. e. pouring it over my head and shoulders. Od. Κ. 362.

249. mvp-aristotle-comment-249

NOTE 249.

25.21 P. 128. HENCE GANYMEDE, &C.
I have adhered, without scruple, to the transposition mentioned in Mr. Winstanley's note ; 2 which had been proposed, I know not by whom, before Victorius published his commentary. Victorius opposes it; but, I think, without sufficient reason. Piccolomini saw, and has well defended, the necessity of it, which appears to me to be obvious. I would read the whole passage thus:
Τὰ δὲ, κατὰ τὸ ἔθος τῆς λέξεως· οἷον, τὸν [forte, ΤΟ] κεκραμμένον, οἶνόν φασιν εἶναι· ὅθεν εἴρηται ὁ Γανυμήδης, "Διῒ οἰνοχοεύειν," πινόντων οἶνον. Εἴη δ’ ἂν τοῦτό γε καὶ κατὰ μεταφοράν. Καὶ, Χαλκέας, τοὺς τὸν σίδηρον ἐργαζομένους· ὅθεν πεποἰηται, "Κνημὶς νεότευκτος κασσιτέροιο."
This differs from Mr. Winstanley's arrangement, only with respect to the words —
εἴη δ’ ἂν τοῦτό γε
, &c. which appear to me to be- long to the single example immediately preceding them in the editions. The commentators agree, I think, in making them refer to all the examples. But I cannot be persuaded, that Aristotle, after formally proposing the
ἔθος λέξεως
, as a distinct solution, would immediately say, that all the instances he gives might as well be defended
κατὰ μεταφοράν
. I understand him to say —
"though this example, indeed, may also be defended by metaphor."
The expression confirms this : —
εἴη δ’ ἂν ΤΟΥΤΟ ΓΕ καὶ κατὰ μεταφοράν.
Besides, there seems to be a pretty plain reason, why this instance might be considered as a metaphor, and the others not so. Nectar was the wine of the Gods; and the resemblance was sufficiently obvious, to make the substitution of the one for the other an easy metaphor. With the other examples the case is different. Brass and iron are indeed, each of them, species of metals. But the common genus is too general to constitute that obvious resemblance which is requisite to a metaphor. Their likeness, to use the philosopher's own language, is not perceived by the genus. Oil and vinegar are both liquids; yet the substitution of the one for the other would make a very strange sort of metaphor; because they have no other resemblance to each other, but as liquids. Hence, Aristotle denominates such substitutions not metaphors, but customary modes of speech; both because the resemblance is not obvious enough for metaphor, and because, as the name implies, they are common and established expressions, (
κύρια
,) however, in themselves, improper. 3

Commentary on the Poetics (Henry James Pye, 1792) (OCR draft) (Henry James Pye's 1792 English commentary, aligned to the Kassel reference edition.) focus

25.15. mvp-aristotle-comment-123 25.21

AS TO THE WAY IN WHICH CONTRADICTIONS MAY BE AN- SWERED, THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IN THE SAME LIGHT AS CONFUTATIONS IN AN ARGUMENT. WE SHOULD OBSERVE IF THE SAME THINGS ARE SPOKEN OF, OR TO THE SAME PERSON, OR IN THE SAME MANNER.

THIS seems to be extending the same principle to account for and excuse contradictions, that is employed before (see note v. on this chapter) to excuse sentiments that seem immoral. As there the immorality is no fault unless carried to a great excess, if it proceeds from an immoral character apparently shewn so, who will not interest us in his favor; fo here contradictions in opinion will be proper or improper according to the manners and sentiments of the speaker. In real life people see things in different lights according to their different habits, mode of education, or profession. A painter will not speak of a wood like a timber-merchant, or a mathematician deliver his opinion on Homer or Milton in the fame terms with a poet. This the composer of fictitious fable is to imitate; and indeed from the nice discrimination of this arises the variety of ferious, and the humour of comic poetry. Romeo and the Friar fhould not be affected in the fame manner at the appearance of Juliet. Prince Henry will not address his father, Percy, and Falstaff, in the same terms. Sincerity will not be expected from Iago, or wisdom from the mouth of Malvolio. Horace exemplifies this difference of sentiment arifing from difference of character in the epistle to the Pifos. ' Much
• Much boots the speaker's character to mark : . God, hero, grave old man, or hot young spark, • Matron, or busy nurse, who's used to roam • Trading abroad, or plows his field at home: • If Colchian or Affyrian fill the scene, • Theban or Argian note the shades between [H].' COLMAN.

Commentarius in Aristotelis Poeticam (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) (Ritter's Latin commentary, extracted from the 1839 volume, divided by Ritter's chapters and sections, and linked to the corresponding Perseus reference subsections.) focus

14. mvp-aristotle-comment-197

Ritter, cap. 25 § 14

ὅθεν τὸν κεκραμένον οἶνόν φασιν εἶναι: ex dicendi usu explicandum est quod ea potio quae ex aqua et vino commixta est tamen vinum nominatur. nove dictum φασιν εἶναι pro λέγουσιν. ὅθεν addidi ex coniectura, et hoc casu quodam excidisse puto, propterea quod bis rediret. Aldus o ἷor inseruit, sed id scribere interpolator vix potuit, cum sic subsequens ὅθεν πεποίηται non iam ad ἔθος τῆς λέ ξεως, ut debet, sed ad οἶνόν φασιν εἶναι referatur. ὅθεν πεποίηται “ κνημίς νεοτεύκτου κασσιτέροιο”: respexit II. Ф. 592. ἀμφὶ δέ μιν κνημίς νεοτεύκτου κασσιτέροιο σμερδαλέον κονάβησε· sententiam personati auctoris obscuram in hunc modum intelligendam esse arbitror: νεότευκτον κασσίτερον esse, si nomen prematur nove factum, sed a fabro non fieri stannum sed conformari tantummodo, quod ut in νεοτεύκτῳ intelligatur, efficere sermonis usum. καὶ χαλκέας τοὺς τὸν σίδηρον ἐργαζομένους: vitiosa est elocutio. interpolator φασιν εἶναι ex proxime superioribus videtur huc traxisse. qui verbis transponendis structuram sanare student, ii ne Maurum lavare frustra allaborent vereor. res ipsa in aperto est. conf. Schol. in Hom. Il. Τ. 283. χαλκῷ: παλαιὰ ἡ χρῆσις τοῦ χαλκὸν ὀνομάζειν τὸν σίδηρον, ἀμέλει καὶ χαλ κέας λέγομεν τοὺς τὸν σίδηρον ἐργαζομένους. Pollux VII, 106. ὅθεν εἴρηται - οἶνον: intellexit Iliadis 1. 234. τὸν καὶ ἀνηρείψαντο θεοὶ Διῒ οἰνοχοεύειν. di nectar bibunt, non vinum: sed nihilo minus deorum pincerna οἰνοχοεύειν dicitur. miram ellipsin οὐ πινόντων (intellige τῶν θεῶν) οἶ- vov scriptor negligentissimus admisit, cum mentis suae oси- los in Homeri verba (ibi est ἀνηρείψαντο θεοί) defixisset. conf. Schol. in Iliad. 1.3. p. 120 a 31. Eustath. ad Odyss. I. 374. εἴη δ᾽ ἂν τοῦτό γε κατὰ μεταφοράν: hoc postremum exemplum incertus est utrum referat ad dicendi usum an ad metaphoram. οἰνοχοεύειν si pro ἐγχέεινdicitur, translatio est ἀπ' εἴδους ἐπὶ γένος, vid. c. 21, 5. homo lectionis copia refertus in his postremis (§. 11-14) cum furore quodam exempla cumulavit.