Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 8.544

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[544] ἀλλʼ οὖν δὴ τὰς ἄλλας ἡμαρτημένας ἔλεγες, εἰ αὕτη ὀρθή. τῶν δὲ λοιπῶν πολιτειῶν ἔφησθα, ὡς μνημονεύω, τέτταρα εἴδη εἶναι, ὧν καὶ πέρι λόγον ἄξιον εἴη ἔχειν καὶ ἰδεῖν αὐτῶν τὰ ἁμαρτήματα καὶ τοὺς ἐκείναις αὖ ὁμοίους, ἵνα πάντας αὐτοὺς ἰδόντες, καὶ ὁμολογησάμενοι τὸν ἄριστον καὶ τὸν κάκιστον ἄνδρα, ἐπισκεψαίμεθα εἰ ὁ ἄριστος εὐδαιμονέστατος καὶ ὁ κάκιστος ἀθλιώτατος, ἢ ἄλλως ἔχοι· καὶ ἐμοῦ ἐρομένου τίνας λέγοις 544b τὰς τέτταρας πολιτείας, ἐν τούτῳ ὑπέλαβε Πολέμαρχός τε καὶ Ἀδείμαντος, καὶ οὕτω δὴ σὺ ἀναλαβὼν τὸν λόγον δεῦρʼ ἀφῖξαι.
ὀρθότατα, εἶπον, ἐμνημόνευσας.
πάλιν τοίνυν, ὥσπερ παλαιστής, τὴν αὐτὴν λαβὴν πάρεχε, καὶ τὸ αὐτὸ ἐμοῦ ἐρομένου πειρῶ εἰπεῖν ἅπερ τότε ἔμελλες λέγειν.
ἐάνπερ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, δύνωμαι.
καὶ μήν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἐπιθυμῶ γε καὶ αὐτὸς ἀκοῦσαι τίνας ἔλεγες τὰς τέτταρας πολιτείας. 544c
οὐ χαλεπῶς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀκούσῃ. εἰσὶ γὰρ ἃς λέγω, αἵπερ καὶ ὀνόματα ἔχουσιν, ἥ τε ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν ἐπαινουμένη, ἡ Κρητική τε καὶ Λακωνικὴ αὕτη· καὶ δευτέρα καὶ δευτέρως ἐπαινουμένη, καλουμένη δʼ ὀλιγαρχία, συχνῶν γέμουσα κακῶν πολιτεία· ἥ τε ταύτῃ διάφορος καὶ ἐφεξῆς γιγνομένη δημοκρατία, καὶ ἡ γενναία δὴ τυραννὶς καὶ πασῶν τούτων διαφέρουσα, τέταρτόν τε καὶ ἔσχατον πόλεως νόσημα. ἤ τινα ἄλλην ἔχεις ἰδέαν πολιτείας, ἥτις καὶ ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ 544d τινι κεῖται; δυναστεῖαι γὰρ καὶ ὠνηταὶ βασιλεῖαι καὶ τοιαῦταί τινες πολιτεῖαι μεταξύ τι τούτων πού εἰσιν, εὕροι δʼ ἄν τις αὐτὰς οὐκ ἐλάττους περὶ τοὺς βαρβάρους ἢ τοὺς Ἕλληνας.
πολλαὶ γοῦν καὶ ἄτοποι, ἔφη, λέγονται.
οἶσθʼ οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι καὶ ἀνθρώπων εἴδη τοσαῦτα ἀνάγκη τρόπων εἶναι, ὅσαπερ καὶ πολιτειῶν; ἢ οἴει ἐκ δρυός ποθεν ἢ ἐκ πέτρας τὰς πολιτείας γίγνεσθαι, ἀλλʼ 544e οὐχὶ ἐκ τῶν ἠθῶν τῶν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν, ἃ ἂν ὥσπερ ῥέψαντα τἆλλα ἐφελκύσηται;
οὐδαμῶς ἔγωγʼ, ἔφη, ἄλλοθεν ἢ ἐντεῦθεν.
οὐκοῦν εἰ τὰ τῶν πόλεων πέντε, καὶ αἱ τῶν ἰδιωτῶν κατασκευαὶ τῆς ψυχῆς πέντε ἂν εἶεν.
τί μήν;
τὸν μὲν δὴ τῇ ἀριστοκρατίᾳ ὅμοιον διεληλύθαμεν ἤδη, ὃν ἀγαθόν τε καὶ δίκαιον ὀρθῶς φαμεν εἶναι.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 8.544 focus

[544] 544a but at any rate you were saying that the others are aberrations,¹ if this city is right. But regarding the other constitutions, my recollection is that you said there were four species² worth speaking of³ and observing their defects⁴ and the corresponding types of men, in order that when we had seen them all and come to an agreement about the best and the worst man, we might determine whether the best is the happiest and the worst most wretched or whether it is otherwise.⁵ And when I was asking what were 544b the four constitutions you had in mind, Polemarchus and Adeimantus thereupon broke in, and that was how you took up the discussion again and brought to this point.⁶ Your memory is most exact, I said. A second time then, as in a wrestling-match, offer me the same hold,⁷ and when I repeat my question try to tell me what you were then about to say. I will if I can, said I. And indeed, said he, I am eager myself to hear what four forms of government you meant. 544c There will be no difficulty about that, said I. For those I mean are precisely those that have names⁸ in common usage: that which the many praised,⁹ your¹⁰ Cretan and Spartan constitution; and the second in place and in honor, that which is called oligarchy, a constitution teeming with many ills, and its sequent counterpart and opponent, democracy ; and then the noble¹¹ tyranny surpassing them all, the fourth and final malady¹² of a state. 544d Can you mention any other type¹³ of government, I mean any other that constitutes a distinct species¹⁴? For, no doubt, there are hereditary principalities¹⁵ and purchased¹⁶ kingships, and similar intermediate constitutions which one could find in even greater numbers among the barbarians than among the Greeks.¹⁷ Certainly many strange ones are reported, he said.
Are you aware, then, said I, that there must be as many types of character among men as there are forms of government¹⁸? Or do you suppose that constitutions spring from the proverbial oak or rock¹⁹ and not from the characters²⁰ of the citizens, 544e which, as it were, by their momentum and weight in the scales²¹ draw other things after them? They could not possibly come from any other source, he said. Then if the forms of government are five, the patterns of individual souls must be five also. Surely. Now we have already described the man corresponding to aristocracy²² or the government of the best, whom we aver to be the truly good and just man.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ὥσπερ παλαιστής . The Scholiast remarks ἔθος γὰρ τούτοις, ὅταν πέσωσιν ὁμοῦ—πάλιν ἐγερθέντας ἐφ’ ὁμοίῳ συμπλακῆναι σχήματι, ὅπερ τὴν αὐτὴν εἶπε λάβην. Plato, as Stallbaum points out, uses the same figure in Phaedr. 236 B : cf. Phil. 13 D , Laws 682 E and ἀντιλαμβανόμενος VI 505 A note

ἐπιθυμῶ ‐‐ ἀκοῦσαι : ‘I am desirous also on my own account to hear’ sc. apart from the half-polemical motive suggested by the figure. Herwerden remarks “locus vix sanus,” but it is sound enough, although the English translators (“I shall particularly wish” etc. Jowett) miss the meaning.

Plato Republic 8.544

ed. John Burnet

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