Plato Republic 8.543

τῇ μελλούσῃ ἄκρως κτλ. Cf. Laws 739 C, D. The adverb ἄκρως is said by Herwerden ( Mn. XIX p. 335) to be a ἅπαξ εἰρημένον in classical Greek. On the word βασιλέας Pfleiderer ( Zur Lösung etc. p. 73) bases a chorizontic argument; but see on IV 445 D. Plato's rulers may well be called ‘Kings,’ for Plato holds that there is no difference of principle between Kingship and Aristocracy: cf. VII 520 B with V 473 C, IX 587 B, and Henkel Stud. zur Gesch. d. Gr. Lehre vom Staat p. 57.

αὐτῶν . The genitive is partitive: ‘and that those of their number are to be Kings who have shewn themselves best’ etc. Jowett wrongly translates ‘their kings.’

ξυνεχωρήσαμεν . III 415 D ff.

οἷαι . The reference is to III 416 D ff. Liebhold's conjecture ὅτι κοιναί is an undeserved reflection on Glauco's powers of memory.

οἱ ἄλλοι . οἱ ἄνθρωποι, which I once suggested ( Cl. Rev. IV p. 357), would be more exact, and ΑΛΛΟΙ and ΑΝ—ΟΙ are pretty easily confused in uncial MSS (Cobet V.L.^{2} p. 432: cf. Heindorf on Prot. 354 B ). Owing to νῦν, οἱ ἄλλοι can only mean ‘the rest of mankind,’ and the Guardians are therefore virtually spoken of as a section of living men. This kind of looseness is not uncommon, though here it has no stylistic effect. An alternative view might be to understand οἱ ἄλλοι of the rest of the citizens ( τῶν ἄλλων below) and νῦν as ‘in point of fact’ or ‘in our present discussion’; but this explanation is much less satisfactory. ὡς, which some inferior MSS write for ὧν, does not remove the inaccuracy in οἱ ἄλλοι: nor is οἷον ἄλλοι in IV 419 A precisely parallel, though it supports the view that οἱ ἄλλοι means ‘the rest of mankind.’

ἀθλητάς ‐‐ πολέμου . VII 521 D note

εἰς ἐνιαυτόν . Nothing is to remain over at the end of the year (III 416 E).

εἰς ταῦτα : viz. εἰς τὰ τῆς φυλακῆς etc. For the use of the pronoun cf. VII 536 A and infra 558 E notes Madvig's εἰς τακτά is unnecessary, and ταξαμένους in III 416 D means something quite different.

ἀλλά γ’ ἐπειδὴ κτλ. : ‘yes, but after we finished that subject, let us recall where we digressed to come here, that we may resume the old path.’ “ γε ad sequentia ε<*>πειδὴ τοῦτ) ἀπετελέσαμεν pertinet et priora recte quidem dicta a Glaucone, sed unum idque non leve reliquum esse significat, quod item sit in memoriam revocandum, ut relictam viam denuo capessere possint” (Schneider). The MSS fluctuate between ἀλλά γ) (the reading of A), ἀλλ’ ἄγ) and ἀλλ’ ἄγε ( Π), the last of which readings is adopted by all editors except Schneider. α<*>λλά γε, though rare, is, I believe, firmly established in Plato: see on I 331 B. It fits the situation in this passage exactly, whereas ἀλλ’ ἄγε does not, if we translate ἐπειδὴ τοῦτ’ ἀπετελέσαμεν correctly, and not (with D. and V., Jowett etc.) by ‘now that we have concluded the subject.’ τοῦτο is not Books V—VII, but the arrangements of the earlier city of II—IV, as described in 543 B, C: and ἀπετελέσαμεν is aorist, not perfect. ἀναμνησθῶμεν (as Schneider observes) is necessitated by ἵνα —ἴωμεν, otherwise Socrates might simply have said ἀλλά γ’ ἐπειδὴ τοῦτ’ ἀπετελέσαμεν, πόθεν δεῦρο ἐξετραπόμεθα; There is moreover no need for so vigorous an exhortation to exercise the memory as would be conveyed by ἀλλ’ ἄγε ἀναμνησθῶμεν, especially as Glauco's recollection had left nothing to be desired in B and C above.

καθάπερ νῦν . νῦν refers to 541 B.

ὡς διεληλυθὼς ‐‐ πόλεως : “quasi disputatione de civitate absoluta” (Stallbaum): cf. V 450 A. The MSS vary between this reading, and ὡς διελήλυθας or διελήλυθας alone: but A (with which Π^{2} and several other MSS agree) is certainly right.

λέγων κτλ. V 449 A.

καὶ ταῦτα κτλ. : ‘and that, too, though, as it seems, you could have told us of a still more beautiful city and man’ viz. the city of the philosopherking and the philosopher-king himself, afterwards described by Socrates in V 472 B—VII. The city of V—VII is spoken of as a different city from that of II— IV: see on ἐν μὲν τῇ προτέρᾳ ἐκλογῇ VII 536 C, II 372 D note, and Hirzel Der Dialog pp. 235 ff. Jowett's translation “although, as now appears, you had more excellent things to relate both of State and man” is a defensible construction, but unnatural, and certainly not what Plato meant. The passage has been curiously misunderstood by some critics, through inattention to the force of the imperfect participle ε<*>χων. Herwerden, for example, actually proposes to insert <οὐ> before καλλίω. Schneider and Stallbaum translate the sentence correctly.

ἔφησθα κτλ. IV 445 C. On the pronouns ὧν—αὐτῶν see II 357 B note Plato is very careful to make it clear that he does not profess, like Aristotle, to give a complete account of faulty States. From his watch-tower he can descry infinite varieties, but only four on which he need expatiate. We may take it that these are, in Plato's view, the four most conspicuous landmarks in the history of political degeneration, as well as the most important and clearly-outlined varieties of existing States. Cf. IV 445 C and infra 544 D ἥτις καὶ ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ τινι κεῖται.

ἵνα πάντας κτλ. reminds us of the thread which is the clue to the labyrinthine reasoning of the Republic: cf. 545 A, 548 D and II 368 E note

ἔχοι . The optative, for which Ast and Stallbaum needlessly read ἔχει with Ξ q and some other inferior MSS, is due to the oratio obliqua: cf. VII 515 D note

ἐρομένου . V 449 A.

ὥσπερ παλαιστής . The Scholiast remarks ἔθος γὰρ τούτοις, ὅταν πέσωσιν ὁμοῦ—πάλιν ἐγερθέντας ἐφ’ ὁμοίῳ συμπλακῆναι σχήματι, ὅπερ τὴν αὐτὴν εἶπε λάβην. Plato, as Stallbaum points out, uses the same figure in Phaedr. 236 B : cf. Phil. 13 D , Laws 682 E and ἀντιλαμβανόμενος VI 505 A note

ἐπιθυμῶ ‐‐ ἀκοῦσαι : ‘I am desirous also on my own account to hear’ sc. apart from the half-polemical motive suggested by the figure. Herwerden remarks “locus vix sanus,” but it is sound enough, although the English translators (“I shall particularly wish” etc. Jowett) miss the meaning.

ἥ τε ‐‐ ἐπαινουμένη . The Spartan constitution in its palmy days was widely praised for εὐνομία and discipline (pseudo-Archytas in Mullach Frag. Philos. Gr. I p. 560, Xen. Mem. III 5. 15 f., IV 4. 15, Plato Hipp. Mai. 283 E, 285 B, Laws 692 C and elsewhere), and became on this ground a sort of political ideal in the eyes of many Greeks: see for example Isocr. Panath. 108 ff. 200 ff. 216 ff. and the fragments of Critias' Λακεδαιμονίων πολιτεία in Müller Frag. Hist. Gr. II pp. 68 f. Cf. Nohle Statslehre Plat. pp. 108 ff. and Whibley Gk Olig. pp. 57 ff.

αὕτη : ista ‘that of yours,’ ‘your Cretan and Lacedaemonian constitution.’ On their connexion see Arist. Pol. B 10. 1271^{b} 22 ff. with Susemihl and Hicks's notes. It is, I think, fanciful to see in αὕτη an allusion to Glauco's sympathies for Sparta, in spite of 548 D below.

καὶ δευτέρως . Hermann prints his own conjecture ἡ δευτέρως, but the common confusion of καί and ἡ (Bast Comm. Pal. p. 815) is, I believe, later than the date of Paris A, and the text is free from objection: ‘and second in order as in esteem, a constitution fraught with many evils, bearing the name of oligarchy.’ δευτέρα agrees with πολιτεία, not with ὀλιγαρχία.

διάφορος : not of course ‘different’ (as Jowett), but ‘antagonistic,’ adversaria (Stallbaum). διάφορος ‘different’ gives a poor sense, and would take the genitive, which Ast erroneously proposed to read. Greek history furnished only too many proofs of the natural feud between democracy and oligarchy: see Greenidge Gk Const. Hist. pp. 208 ff. and Gilbert Gr. Staatsalt. II p. 285 note 2.

ἐφεξῆς γιγνομένη . From this and other indications it would appear on a first perusal that the sequence of commonwealths in VIII and IX is intended by Plato to be not merely logical, but historical also; but there is no question that the political evolution of Greek constitutions was far more complex than would appear from Plato's description. See on 543 A. We must above all things remember that it is in order to furnish a picture of the worst city and the worst man that the whole of this enquiry is undertaken, and Plato is at liberty to adopt whatever mode of presentation is best adapted for the object which he has in view. The form which he does in point of fact select is that of a historical narrative (see on 543 A, 548 D), but the real order of the development which he describes is a ‘logical order,’ and is primarily determined by psychological, and not by historical considerations. Although there are many points of contact between the development of Greek constitutional history and Plato's arrangement, Plato here employs narration primarily and chiefly as a vehicle or instrument for expressing the results of psychological analysis, and not because he believes that political development always and inevitably follows the same lines. See also on 543 A and infra 544 D.

διαφέρουσα κτλ. The reading of Ξ—see cr. n.—is confirmed by v and two other MSS, as well as by Stobaeus ( Flor. 43. 115) and Ficinus ( ab his omnibus differens). All other MSS appear to have διαφεύγουσα. “Errori—occasionem pronuntiatio non absimilis dedisse videtur” (Schneider). The word does not mean ‘differs’ (as Jowett) but ‘excels’ (ironically, of course, like ἡ γενναία δή). Father Rickaby has suggested to me that we should read καὶ ἡ πασῶν τούτων διαφέρουσα, ἡ γενναία δὴ τυραννίς, τέταρτον κτλ. The conjecture is an attractive one, both on other grounds and also because it enables us to retain the article which appears before πασῶν (see cr. n.) in A: but it is perhaps safer to follow Ξ.

νόσημα . Greek political theory regards tyrants as νοσήματα τῶν πόλεων (Isocr. Hel. 34: cf. Henkel l. c. p. 156).

ἢ τίνα . Ast and others write ἤ τινα (with slight MS support), but τίνα is perfectly good: cf. IX 573 A.

ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ τινι . See on 544 A.

δυναστεῖαι . δυναστεία is that form of polity in which the son succeeds the father καὶ ἄρχῃ μὴ ὁ νόμος ἀλλ’ οἱ ἄρχοντες (Arist. Pol. Δ 5. 1292^{b} 5 ff.: cf. Laws 680 A, B). Such a πολιτεία might be good, but was of course generally bad: see Susemihl and Hicks on Arist. Pol. B 10. 1272^{b} 3. Examples are pro vided by Thessaly (Thuc. IV 78. 3) and (about 480 B.C.) Thebes (Thuc. III 62. 3: cf. Gilbert Griech. Staatsalt. II pp. 10, 46). See Whibley Gk Olig. pp. 124— 126.

ὠνηταὶ βασιλεῖαι : like Carthage (Arist. l.c. 11. 1273^{a} 36 with Susemihl and Hicks p. 349). Herwerden sins through ignorance when he proposes αἱρεταί for ὠνηταί.

τοιαῦταί τινες : such as, for example, αἰσυμνητεία, and the other specific varieties (as Aristotle reckons them) of Plato's typical πολιτεῖαι: see Pol. Γ, Δ Ζ passim.

εὕροι δ’ ἂν κτλ. : whereas Plato confines himself to Greek history throughout VIII and IX.

καὶ ἀνθρώπων κτλ. Cf. IV 445 C, and on the principle here laid down see IV 435 E note The present passage is a clear and emphatic statement of the psychological basis on which Plato's philosophy of History rests. Political ἀδικία, like political δικαιοσύνη (IV 443 B note), is after all no more than εἴδωλόν τι: injustice in the truest sense is στάσις within the individual soul (IV 444 B), and social and political wrong-doing is but its outward manifestation. The double genitive, which is easy enough (cf. E below and V 449 A note), has led to the corruption τρόπον τινά in several MSS. Liebhold also suggests καὶ τρόπων instead of τρόπων. The expression εἴδη τρόπων (‘specific characters’) is treated as a single word, and should be repeated with πολιτειῶν: cf. IV 445 C ὅσοι πολιτειῶν τρόποι εἰσὶν εἴδη ἔχοντες, τοσοῦτοι κινδυνεύουσι καὶ ψυχῆς τρόποι εἶναι (a passage which proves, I think, that Schneider and Stallbaum are wrong in supplying only εἴδη with ὅσαπερ κτλ.)

ἐκ δρυὸς κτλ. Hom. Od. XIX 162 f. ἀλλὰ καὶ ὥς μοι εἰπὲ τεὸν γένος, ὁππόθεν ἐσσί· | οὐ γὰρ ἀπὸ δρυός ἐσσι παλαιφάτου οὐδ’ ἀπὸ πέτρης, i.e. you have a γένος (cf. Ap. 34 D ) and are not miraculously sprung ἀγενεαλογήτως out of tree or stone, like the fabled men of old (see Preller-Robert Gr. Myth. p. 79 note 4). In Plato the saying is used much like the German ‘es ist doch nicht aus der Luft gefallen’ (Schück de scholiis p. 32, where the proverb is illustrated).

ἃ ἂν κτλ. οἶ ἄν was read till Schneider on the authority of Ξ; but ἃ ἄν ( ΑΠ and a large majority of MSS) is quite satisfactory. “Reipublicae formae eos dicuntur sequi mores, qui in quavis civitate veluti pondere praegravantes ad se suamque regionem attraxerint reliqua” (Schneider, comparing for ῥέψαντα Hdt. VII 139). The word ῥεύσαντα ( Ξ and some other MSS) is unattic (Lobeck Phryn. p. 738): Plato's form is ῥυέντα e.g. VI 495 B.

ὀρθῶς is more naturally taken with φαμέν (Jowett etc.) than with the adjectives (as Schneider). We rightly call him ‘good’ etc., because he is ὅμοιος ἀριστο‐κρατίᾳ.