Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 7.541

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[541]
ὅσοι μὲν ἄν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρεσβύτεροι τυγχάνωσι δεκετῶν 541a ἐν τῇ πόλει, πάντας ἐκπέμψωσιν εἰς τοὺς ἀγρούς, τοὺς δὲ παῖδας αὐτῶν παραλαβόντες ἐκτὸς τῶν νῦν ἠθῶν, ἃ καὶ οἱ γονῆς ἔχουσι, θρέψωνται ἐν τοῖς σφετέροις τρόποισι καὶ νόμοις, οὖσιν οἵοις διεληλύθαμεν τότε· καὶ οὕτω τάχιστά τε καὶ ῥᾷστα πόλιν τε καὶ πολιτείαν, ἣν ἐλέγομεν, καταστᾶσαν αὐτήν τε εὐδαιμονήσειν καὶ τὸ ἔθνος ἐν ᾧ ἂν ἐγγένηται πλεῖστα ὀνήσειν;
πολύ γʼ, ἔφη· καὶ ὡς ἂν γένοιτο, εἴπερ ποτὲ γίγνοιτο, 541b δοκεῖς μοι, ὦ Σώκρατες, εὖ εἰρηκέναι.
οὐκοῦν ἅδην ἤδη, εἶπον ἐγώ, ἔχουσιν ἡμῖν οἱ λόγοι περί τε τῆς πόλεως ταύτης καὶ τοῦ ὁμοίου ταύτῃ ἀνδρός; δῆλος γάρ που καὶ οὗτος οἷον φήσομεν δεῖν αὐτὸν εἶναι.
δῆλος, ἔφη· καὶ ὅπερ ἐρωτᾷς, δοκεῖ μοι τέλος ἔχειν.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 7.541 focus

[541] “All inhabitants above the age of ten,” I said, 541a “they will send out into the fields, and they will take over the children,¹ remove them from the manners and habits of their parents, and bring them up in their own customs and laws which will be such as we have described. This is the speediest and easiest way in which such a city and constitution as we have portrayed could be established and prosper and bring most benefit to the people 541b among whom it arises.” “Much the easiest,” he said, “and I think you have well explained the manner of its realization if it should ever be realized.” Then, said I, “have we not now said enough² about this state and the corresponding type of man—for it is evident what our conception of him will be?” “It is evident,” he said, “and, to answer your question, I think we have finished.”

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

θρέψωνται κτλ. J. and C. accuse Plato of barely considering “how the provision, which he here abruptly introduces, is to be reconciled with what precedes. For how are the children to be taught music and gymnastic when all their elders have been sent away? From what other State are the new teachers to be brought?” Plato is perfectly consistent. The new teachers are οἱ ὡς ἀληθῶς φιλόσοφοι δυνάσται ἐν πόλει γενόμενοι (540 D: cf. VI 499 B, 502 A ff.), and they rusticate the parents etc. just because their presence makes it impossible to bring up children on the new lines. If ‘their elders’ could teach the young children, it would be unnecessary and wrong to send them into the country. Jowett seems to forget for the moment that Plato is not here speaking of his own city, but of an actual city which he wishes to transform into his καλλίπολις.

καὶ οὕτω κτλ. The infinitives still depend on ξυγχωρεῖτε.

ἐλέγομεν . Liebhold's λέγομεν is harmless, but unnecessary: cf. διεληλύθαμεν τότε above.

εἴπερ ποτὲ γίγνοιτο . Cf. VI 502 C note

ὅπερ ἐρωτᾷς refers to Socrates' question οὐκοῦν—ἀνδρός; Cf. X 595 C ἀλλ’ ὃ λέγω, ῥητέον. “The present inquiry is, I believe, concluded” (D. and V.) is an erroneous translation.

Plato Republic 7.541

ed. John Burnet

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