Plato Republic 7.541

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.541 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. This is another of the passages in which Plato seems to lend support to revolutionaries. Cf. p. 71, note g. Cf. Laws 752 C, where it is said that the children would accept the new laws if the parents would not. Cf. 415 D, and also What Plato Said, p. 625, on Laws 644 A and p. 638, on 813 D. There is some confusion in this passage between the inauguration and the normal conduct of the ideal state, and Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 439 calls the idea
ein hingeworfener Einfall.
But Plato always held that the reformer must have or make a clean slate. Cf. 501 A, Laws 735 E. And he constantly emphasizes the supreme importance of education; Rep. 377 A-B, 423 E, 416 C, Laws 641 B, 644 A-B, 752 C, 765 E-766 A, 788 C, 804 D. For παραλαβόντες Cf. Phaedo 82 E
παραλαβοῦσα
.
2. Cf. 535 A.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

θρέψωνται κτλ. J. and C. accuse Plato of barely considering “how the provision, which he here abruptly introduces, is to be reconciled with what precedes. For how are the children to be taught music and gymnastic when all their elders have been sent away? From what other State are the new teachers to be brought?” Plato is perfectly consistent. The new teachers are οἱ ὡς ἀληθῶς φιλόσοφοι δυνάσται ἐν πόλει γενόμενοι (540 D: cf. VI 499 B, 502 A ff.), and they rusticate the parents etc. just because their presence makes it impossible to bring up children on the new lines. If ‘their elders’ could teach the young children, it would be unnecessary and wrong to send them into the country. Jowett seems to forget for the moment that Plato is not here speaking of his own city, but of an actual city which he wishes to transform into his καλλίπολις.

καὶ οὕτω κτλ. The infinitives still depend on ξυγχωρεῖτε.

ἐλέγομεν . Liebhold's λέγομεν is harmless, but unnecessary: cf. διεληλύθαμεν τότε above.

εἴπερ ποτὲ γίγνοιτο . Cf. VI 502 C note

ὅπερ ἐρωτᾷς refers to Socrates' question οὐκοῦν—ἀνδρός; Cf. X 595 C ἀλλ’ ὃ λέγω, ῥητέον. “The present inquiry is, I believe, concluded” (D. and V.) is an erroneous translation.