Plato, Republic, Paul Shorey (Translator), 7.540

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[540] Well, I said, “set it down as five.¹ For after that you will have to send them down into the cave² again, and compel them to hold commands in war and the other offices suitable to youth, so that they may not fall short of the other type in experience³ either. And in these offices, too, they are to be tested to see whether they will remain steadfast under diverse solicitations 540a or whether they will flinch and swerve.⁴” “How much time do you allow for that?” he said. “Fifteen years,” said I, “and at the age of fifty⁵ those who have survived the tests and approved themselves altogether the best in every task and form of knowledge must be brought at last to the goal. We shall require them to turn upwards the vision of their souls⁶ and fix their gaze on that which sheds light on all, and when they have thus beheld the good itself they shall use it as a pattern⁷ for the right ordering of the state and the citizens and themselves 540b throughout the remainder of their lives, each in his turn,⁸ devoting the greater part of their time to the study of philosophy, but when the turn comes for each, toiling in the service of the state and holding office for the city’s sake, regarding the task not as a fine thing but a necessity⁹; and so, when each generation has educated others¹⁰ like themselves to take their place as guardians of the state, they shall depart to the Islands of the Blest¹¹ and there dwell. And the state shall establish public memorials¹² 540c and sacrifices for them as to divinities if the Pythian oracle approves¹³ or, if not, as to divine and godlike men.¹⁴” “A most beautiful finish, Socrates, you have put upon your rulers, as if you were a statuary.¹⁵” “And on the women¹⁶ too, Glaucon,” said I; “for you must not suppose that my words apply to the men more than to all women who arise among them endowed with the requisite qualities.” “That is right,” he said, “if they are to share equally in all things with the men as we laid it down.” 540d “Well, then,” said I, “do you admit that our notion of the state and its polity is not altogether a daydream,¹⁷ but that though it is difficult,¹⁸ it is in a way possible¹⁹ and in no other way than that described—when genuine philosophers,²⁰ many or one, becoming masters of the state scorn²¹ the present honors, regarding them as illiberal and worthless, but prize the right²² 540e and the honors that come from that above all things, and regarding justice as the chief and the one indispensable thing, in the service and maintenance of that reorganize and administer their city?” “In what way?” he said.

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.540 focus

[540]
ἀμέλει, εἶπον, πέντε θές. μετὰ γὰρ τοῦτο καταβιβαστέοι ἔσονταί σοι εἰς τὸ σπήλαιον πάλιν ἐκεῖνο, καὶ ἀναγκαστέοι ἄρχειν τά τε περὶ τὸν πόλεμον καὶ ὅσαι νέων ἀρχαί, ἵνα μηδʼ ἐμπειρίᾳ ὑστερῶσι τῶν ἄλλων· καὶ ἔτι καὶ ἐν τούτοις 540a βασανιστέοι εἰ ἐμμενοῦσιν ἑλκόμενοι πανταχόσε ἤ τι καὶ παρακινήσουσι.
χρόνον δέ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, πόσον τοῦτον τιθεῖς;
πεντεκαίδεκα ἔτη, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ. γενομένων δὲ πεντηκοντουτῶν τοὺς διασωθέντας καὶ ἀριστεύσαντας πάντα πάντῃ ἐν ἔργοις τε καὶ ἐπιστήμαις πρὸς τέλος ἤδη ἀκτέον, καὶ ἀναγκαστέον ἀνακλίναντας τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς αὐγὴν εἰς αὐτὸ ἀποβλέψαι τὸ πᾶσι φῶς παρέχον, καὶ ἰδόντας τὸ ἀγαθὸν αὐτό, παραδείγματι χρωμένους ἐκείνῳ, καὶ πόλιν καὶ ἰδιώτας 540b καὶ ἑαυτοὺς κοσμεῖν τὸν ἐπίλοιπον βίον ἐν μέρει ἑκάστους, τὸ μὲν πολὺ πρὸς φιλοσοφίᾳ διατρίβοντας, ὅταν δὲ τὸ μέρος ἥκῃ, πρὸς πολιτικοῖς ἐπιταλαιπωροῦντας καὶ ἄρχοντας ἑκάστους τῆς πόλεως ἕνεκα, οὐχ ὡς καλόν τι ἀλλʼ ὡς ἀναγκαῖον πράττοντας, καὶ οὕτως ἄλλους ἀεὶ παιδεύσαντας τοιούτους, ἀντικαταλιπόντας τῆς πόλεως φύλακας, εἰς μακάρων νήσους ἀπιόντας οἰκεῖν· μνημεῖα δʼ αὐτοῖς καὶ θυσίας 540c τὴν πόλιν δημοσίᾳ ποιεῖν, ἐὰν καὶ ἡ Πυθία συναναιρῇ, ὡς δαίμοσιν, εἰ δὲ μή, ὡς εὐδαίμοσί τε καὶ θείοις.
παγκάλους, ἔφη, τοὺς ἄρχοντας, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὥσπερ ἀνδριαντοποιὸς ἀπείργασαι.
καὶ τὰς ἀρχούσας γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Γλαύκων· μηδὲν γάρ τι οἴου με περὶ ἀνδρῶν εἰρηκέναι μᾶλλον ἃ εἴρηκα ἢ περὶ γυναικῶν, ὅσαι ἂν αὐτῶν ἱκαναὶ τὰς φύσεις ἐγγίγνωνται.
ὀρθῶς, ἔφη, εἴπερ ἴσα γε πάντα τοῖς ἀνδράσι κοινωνήσουσιν, ὡς διήλθομεν. 540d
τί οὖν; ἔφην· συγχωρεῖτε περὶ τῆς πόλεώς τε καὶ πολιτείας μὴ παντάπασιν ἡμᾶς εὐχὰς εἰρηκέναι, ἀλλὰ χαλεπὰ μέν, δυνατὰ δέ πῃ, καὶ οὐκ ἄλλῃ ἢ εἴρηται, ὅταν οἱ ὡς ἀληθῶς φιλόσοφοι δυνάσται, ἢ πλείους ἢ εἷς, ἐν πόλει γενόμενοι τῶν μὲν νῦν τιμῶν καταφρονήσωσιν, ἡγησάμενοι ἀνελευθέρους εἶναι καὶ οὐδενὸς ἀξίας, τὸ δὲ ὀρθὸν περὶ 540e πλείστου ποιησάμενοι καὶ τὰς ἀπὸ τούτου τιμάς, μέγιστον δὲ καὶ ἀναγκαιότατον τὸ δίκαιον, καὶ τούτῳ δὴ ὑπηρετοῦντές τε καὶ αὔξοντες αὐτὸ διασκευωρήσωνται τὴν ἑαυτῶν πόλιν;
πῶς; ἔφη.

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. It is very naive of modern commentators to cavil at the precise time allotted to dialectic, and still more so to infer that there was not much to say about the ideas. Dialectic was not exclusively or mainly concerned with the metaphysics of the ideas. It was the development of the reasoning powers by rational discussion.

2. Cf. 519 C ff., pp. 139-145.

3. Xen. Cyrop. i. 2. 13 seems to copy this. Cf. on 484 D. Critics of Plato frequently overlook the fact that he insisted on practical experience in the training of his rulers. Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 5 points out that this experience takes the place of special training in political science.

4. Cf.

ὑποκινήσαντ’

, Aristoph. Frogs 643.

5. An eminent scholar quaintly infers that Plato could not have written this page before he himself was fifty years old.

6. Plato having made his practical meaning quite clear feels that he can safely permit himself the short cut of rhetoric and symbolism in summing it up. He reckoned without Neoplatonists ancient and modern. Cf. also on 519 B, p. 138, note a.

7. Cf. 500 D-E. For παράδειγμα cf. 592 B and What Plato Said, p. 458, on Euthyphro 6 E, and p. 599, on Polit. 277 D.

8. Cf. 520 D.

9. Cf. 347 C-D, 520 E.

10. Plato’s guardians, unlike Athenian statesmen, could train their successors. Cf. Protag. 319 E-320 B, Meno 99 B. Also

ἄλλους ποιεῖν

Meno 100 A, Gorg. 449 B, 455 C, Euthyph. 3 C, Phaedr. 266 C, 268 B, Symp. 196 E, Protag. 348 E, Isoc. Demon. 3, Panath. 28, Soph. 13, Antid. 204, Xen. Oecon. 15. 10, and παιδεύειν ἀνθρώπους, generally used of the sophists, Gorg. 519 E, Protag. 317 B, Euthyd. 306 E, Laches 186 D, Rep. 600 C.

11. Cf. p. 139, note d. Plato checks himself in mid-flight and wistfully smiles at his own idealism. Cf. on 536 B-C, also 540 C and 509 C. Frutiger, Mythes de Platon, p. 170.

12. Cf. Symp. 209 E.

13. For this caution cf. 461 E and Vol. I. p. 344, note c, on 427 C.

14. Plato plays on the words δαίμων and εὐδαίμων. Cf. also Crat. 398 b-C.

15. Cf. 361 D.

16. Lit. female rulers.

17. Cf. on 450 D and 499 C.

18. Cf. 499 D.

19. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 564 on Rep. 472 B-E, and p. 65, not h, on 499 D.

20. Cf. 463 C-D, 499 B-C.

21. Cf. 521 B, 516 C-D.

22. τὸ ὀρθόν: Cf. Theaet. 161 C, Meno 99 A.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

πεντηκοντουτῶν . We are told that in Chalcis the magistrates had to be at least 50 years of age: νόμος δὲ ἦν Χαλκιδεῦσι μὴ ἄρξαι μηδὲ πρεσβεῦσαι νεώτερον ἐτῶν πεντήκοντα (Heraclides Fr. Hist. Gr. II p. 222), but advanced age was rarely a condition of holding office in Greek states. See Whibley Gk. Olig. pp. 148 f.

τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς αὐγήν : ‘the radiant light of the soul.’ αὐγή is highly poetic in this sense: cf. Soph. Ajax 70 . There is more than a touch of mysticism in this and similar passages throughout Books VI and VII (cf. especially VI 490 A, B), but it is exaggerated by Krohn ( Pl. St. p. 187), who boldly declares that “the only person who correctly understood the later phase of the Republic was Plotinus,” and that “the so-called Platonic Dialectic is a Missverständniss.”

παραδείγματι κτλ. See VI 484 C, 501 A—C notes

ἑκάστους . See 520 D note

οὐχ ὡς καλόν τι κτλ. 520 E note

ἐὰν καὶ ἡ Πυθία κτλ. See on IV 427 B, C.

ξυναναιρῇ . See cr. n. The error in Α, Π, and several MSS besides, is a pretty example of lipography: contrast προσαναιρῇ in V 461 E, where the temptation is absent and the MSS right. Burnet says that A^{2} has ξυναναιρῇ, I know not on what authority: I found no trace in the MS of anything except ξυναιρῇ.

εὐδαίμοσι . If not δαίμοσιν, then εὐ‐δαίμοσιν.

ὥσπερ ἀνδριαντοποιός . Jowett seems to find an allusion to the fact that Socrates had been a sculptor; but the same words might have been used if he had not: cf. (with J. and C.) II 361 D.

ὡς διήλθομεν . V 451 C ff.

εὐχάς . V 450 D note

χαλεπὰ κτλ. See VI 502 C note

ἢ πλείους ἢ εἷς . See on IV 445 D.

ἀναγκαιότατον . They will admit no compulsion save that of Right; Non civium ardor prava iubentium Non vultus instantis tyranni Mente quatit solida. Contrast VI 492 B—493 D.

ὅσοι μὲν ἂν κτλ. Newman ( Aristotle's Politics I p. 413 note) thinks this proposal is “a softened version of the sentence which Heraclitus passed on the Ephesians for expelling Hermodorus” (Bywater's Heracl. Fr. 114), but the parallel is not very close. Plato's καθαρμός is sufficiently explained by the precepts which he himself lays down in VI 501 A: see also Pol. 293 D and especially Laws 735 B—736 C, where he gives an interesting survey of the various καθαρμοί applicable to commonwealths, and 752 B ff. Whether the καθαρμός of the Republic is itself either possible or adequate is another matter: Grote pronounces it an εὐχή ( Plato III p. 218 note). An age which had witnessed the διοικισμός of Mantinea ( Xen. Hell. V 2. 7 ) might well have regarded it as feasible. ‘Possible, but difficult’ is perhaps the safest verdict. The purgation, even if successfully applied, might not be sufficient to start the city well, but it would be a useful auxiliary to that “express initiative force, exceptional and belonging to some peculiar crisis,” which (according to Grote l. c.) would float the enterprise. Bosanquet raises the question how far the καθαρμός is seriously meant. To me it appears to be neither more nor less serious than Plato's treatment of the general question as to the possibility of his ideal city: see on VI 502 C and Hirmer Entstehung u. Komp. d. pl. Pol. p. 638.

ἐκπέμψωσιν ‐‐ θρέψωνται . Stephanus (with some inferior MS authority) reads the future, which Liebhold also would restore; but ὅταν is carried on. Cf. II 359 B note

Plato Republic 7.540

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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