Plato Republic 7.539

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.539 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. For οἰκεῖα Cf. 433 E, 433 D, and Class. Phil. xxiv. ( 1929) pp. 409-410.
2. Cf. Laws 633 E and 442 A-B. Others render it, than the life of the flatterers (parasites). Why not both?
3. See on 498 A-B. Cf. Richard of Bury, Philobiblon(Morley, A Miscellany, pp. 49-50):
But the contemporaries of our age negligently apply a few years of ardent youth, burning by turns with the fire of vice; and when they have attained the acumen of discerning a doubtful truth, they immediately become involved in extraneous business, retire, and say farewell to the schools of philosophy; they sip the frothy must of juvenile wit over the difficulties of philosophy, and pour out the purified old wine with economical care.
4. Cf. Apol. 23 C, Phileb. 15 E, Xen. Mem. i. 2. 46, Isoc. xii. 26 and x. 6; also Friedländer, Platon, ii. p. 568.
5. But in another mood or from another angle this is the bacchic madness of philosophy which all the company in the Symposium have shared, 218 A-B. Cf. also Phaedr. 245 B-C, 249 C-E, Sophist 216 D, Phileb. 15 D-E, and What Plato Said, p. 493 on Protag. 317 D-E.
6. Cf. Gorg. 500 B-C. Yet the prevailing seriousness of Plato’s own thought does not exclude touches of humor and irony, and he vainly warns the modern reader to distinguish between jest and earnest in the drama of disputation in his dialogues. Many misinterpretations of Plato’s thought are due to the failure to heed this warning. Cf. e.g . Gorgias 474 A ( What Plato Said, p. 504), which Robin, L’Année Philos. xxi. p. 29, and others miss, Rep. 376 B, Symp. 196 C, Protag. 339 f., Theaet. 157 A-B, 160 B,165 B,and passim. Cf. also on 536 C, p. 214, note b.
7. For the idiom μὴ ὡς νῦν etc. Cf. on 410 B
οὐχ ὥσπερ
; also 610 D, Gorg. 522 A, Symp. 179 E, 189 C, Epist. vii. 333 A, Aristoph. Knights 784, Eurip. Bacchae 929, Il. xix. 493, Od. xxiv. 199, xxi. 427, Dem. iv. 34, Aristot. De an. 414 A 22.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

τὸν κολακεύοντα is explained by the Oxford editors as ‘the life that is flattering him,’ with reference to 538 D. It is rather, I think, ‘the flattering life’ i.e. the life of the κόλαξ (cf. ὁ ἀπολαυστικὸς βίος and the like in Arist. Eth. Nic. I 2. 1095^{b} 17 ff.). In other words the epithet which properly belongs to the person who lives the life is transferred to the life which he lives. Aristotle reminds us that ὁ δημαγωγὸς καὶ ὁ κόλαξ οἱ αὐτοὶ καὶ ἀνάλογον ( Pol. Δ 4. 1292^{a} 20), and the demagogic life may be taken as one among many illustrations of Plato's meaning, especially as in παράνομος κτλ. he seems to be thinking of Alcibiades: cf. Thuc. VI 15. 4 and 28. 2. See VI 494 C ff. notes and Bosanquet Companion p. 306.

δόξει . The appearance does not exclude the reality: cf. (with J. and C.) Soph. O. T. 402 and Thuc. III 10. 1.

εὐλαβουμένῳ refers not to the pupils, but to Glauco as legislator, who ‘meddles with Dialectic’ by introducing the Guardians to it. This appears clearly both from εὐλάβεια and from ἐνταῦθα δὴ πολλῆς φυλακῆς ἔργον in 537 D. εὐλαβουμένους (Madvig) and εὐλαβουμένοις (Baiter) are therefore wrong.

μὴ νέους κτλ. Cf. Arist. Eth. Nic. I 1. 1095^{a} 2 τῆς πολιτικῆς οὐκ ἔστιν οἰκεῖος ἀκροατὴς ὁ νέος. It is clear from the present passage that Dialectic is largely concerned with moral and religious questions, as Bosanquet ( Companion p. 302) and Nettleship ( Lect. and Rem. II p. 291) remark. See App. III. Grote (III pp. 237—239) has some interesting observations on Plato's exclusion of the young from dialectical debate; but it is scarcely right to say that the Parmenides (135 C—136 E) contradicts Plato's precept in the Republic, for the disputations in the Parmenides are a preliminary exercise ( γυμνασία 135 D) to be undertaken before we attempt to define καλόν τε τί καὶ δίκαιον καὶ ἀγαθὸν καὶ ἓν ἕκαστον τῶν εἰδῶν (135 C).

οἶμαι γάρ σε κτλ. The same phenomenon is similarly described in Phil. 15 D —16 A: cf. also Ap. 23 C and Isocr. Panath. 26.

ἀντιλογίαν . See on V 454 A.

τούτου : this provision, viz. that they shall not begin Dialectic in youth (539 B). The genitive depends on προειρημένα (which refers to passages like VI 485 ff., 490, 503 C, VII 535 A ff.), and not, as J. and C. suggest, on εὐλαβείᾳ .

ὡς ‐‐ ἔρχεται . On the construction see III 410 B note

ἔτη ‐‐ τότε . 537 B.

πέντε θές . Krohn thinks five years very short, compared with the time allotted to the προπαιδεία, and suspects that we have here ‘a silent confession that there is not so very much to say about the Ideas after all.’ ( Pl. St. p. 187). Five years devoted ἐνδελεχῶς καὶ ξυντόνως to Dialectic exclusively is a good deal; and we may be sure that Plato does not intend his Guardians to neglect the subject between 35 and 50, although practical duties occupy most of their time. Moreover at 50, Dialectic is resumed, and it is not till then that the Idea of Good is fully apprehended, so that the five years from 30 to 35 were certainly not thought by Plato to exhaust the subject. We must also beware of supposing that there is any break of continuity in the education of the Guardians. The study of each propaedeutic ‘art’ by itself prepares us for seeing all the ‘arts’ in their mutual relations and interdependence, and the comparative survey of the ‘arts’ in turn prepares us for Dialectic (537 C), nor need the subjects of the προπαιδεία be finally abandoned after we enter on Dialectic. See Appendices II and III.