Plato Republic 8.544

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 8.544 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1285 b 1-2, 1289 b 9.
2. Aristot. Pol. 1291-1292 censures the limitation to four. But cf. ibid, Introd. p. xlv. Cf. Laws 693 D, where only two mother-forms of government are mentioned, monarchy and democracy, with Aristot. Pol. 1301 b 40
δῆμος καὶ ὀλιγαρχία
. Cf. also Eth. Nic. 1160 a 31 ff. The Politicus mentions seven (291 f., 301 f.). Isoc. Panath. 132-134 names three kinds—oligarchy, democracy, and monarchy—adding that others may say much more about them. See note ad loc. in Loeb Isocrates and Class. Phil. vol. vii. p. 91. Cf. Hobbes, Leviathan 19
Yet he that shall consider the particular commonwealths that have been and are in the world will not perhaps easily reduce them to three . . . as, for example, elective kingdoms,
etc.
3. For ὧν καὶ πέρι λόγον ἄξιον εἴη Cf. Laws 908 B
ἃ καὶ διακρίσεως ἄξια
, Laches 192 A
οὗ καὶ πέρι ἄξιον λέγειν
, Tim. 82
ἓν γένος ἐνὸν ἄξιον ἐπωνυμίας
. Cf. also Euthydem. 279 C, Aristot. Pol. 1272 b 32, 1302 a 13, De part. an. 654 a 13, Demosth. v. 16, Isoc. vi. 56. and Vol. I. p. 420, note f, on 445 C.
4. For the relative followed by a demonstrative cf. also 357 B.
5. Plato’s main point again. Cf. 545 A, 484 A-B and Vol. I. p.xii, note d.
6. Cf. on 572 b, p. 339, note e.
7. Cf. Phileb. 13 D
εἰς τὰς ὁμοίας
Phaedr. 236 B, Laws 682 E, Aristoph. Clouds 551 (Blaydes), Knights 841, Lysist. 672.
8. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 596, on Sophist 267 D.
9. Cf. Crito 52 E, Norlin on Isoc. Nicocles 24 (Loeb), Laws 612 D-E, Aristot. Pol. 1265 b 32, Xen. Mem. iii. 5. 15.
10. ἡ . . . αὔτη, ista. Cf. Midsummer Night’s Dream, I. ii. ad fin. and Gorg. 502 B, 452 E.
11. Of course ironical. Cf. 454 A, and What Plato Said, p. 592, on Soph. 231 B.
12. Cf. 552 C, Protag. 322 d, Isoc. Hel. 34, Wilamowitz on Eurip. Heracles 542. For the effect of surprise Cf. Rep. 334 A, 373 A, 555 A, Theaet. 146 A, Phileb. 46 A
κακόν
and 64 E
συμφορά
.
13. ἰδέαν: cf. Introd. p. x.
14. Cf. 445 C. For διαφανεῖ Cf. Tim. 60 A, 67 A, Laws 634 C, and on 548 C, p. 253, note g.
15. δυναστεῖαι Cf. Laws 680 B, 681 D. But the word usually has an invidious suggestion. See Newman on Aristot. Pol. 1272 b 10. Cf. ibid. 1292 b 5-10, 1293 a 31, 1298 a 32; also Lysias ii. 18, where it is opposed to democracy, Isoc. Panath. 148, where it is used of the tyranny of Peisistratus, ibid. 43 of Minos. Cf. Panegyr. 39 and Norlin on Panegyr. 105 (Loeb). Isocrates also uses it frequently of the power or sovereignty of Philip, Phil. 3, 6, 69, 133, etc. Cf. also Gorg. 492 B, Polit. 291 D.
16. Newman on Aristot. Pol. 1273 a 35 thinks that Plato may have been thinking of Carthage. Cf. Polyb. vi. 56. 4.
17. Plato, as often is impatient of details, for which he was rebuked by Aristotle. Cf. also Tim. 57 D, 67 C, and the frequent leaving of minor matters to future legislators in the Republic and Laws,Vol. I. p. 294, note b, on 412 B.
18. For the correspondence of individual and state cf. also 425 E, 445 C-D, 579 C and on 591 E. Cf. Laws 829 A, Isoc. Peace 120.
19. Or stock or stone, i.e. inanimate, insensible things. For the quotation ἐκ δρυός ποθεν ἢ ἐκ πέτρας Cf. Odyssey xix. 163, Il. xxii. 126 aliter, Apol. 34 D and Thompson on Phaedrus 275 B; also Stallbaum ad loc.
20. The mores, 45 E, 436 A. Cf. Bagehot, Physics and Politics, p. 206:
A lazy nation may be changed into an industrious, a rich into a poor, a religious into a profane, as if by magic, if any single cause, though slight, or any combination of causes, however subtle, is strong enough to change the favorite and detested types of character.
21. For the metaphor cf. also 550 E and on 556 E.
22. ἀριστοκρατία is used by both Plato and Aristotle some times technically, sometimes etymologically as the government of the best, whoever they may be. Cf. 445 D, and Menex. 238 C-D ( What Plato Said, p. 539).

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἔφησθα κτλ. IV 445 C. On the pronouns ὧν—αὐτῶν see II 357 B note Plato is very careful to make it clear that he does not profess, like Aristotle, to give a complete account of faulty States. From his watch-tower he can descry infinite varieties, but only four on which he need expatiate. We may take it that these are, in Plato's view, the four most conspicuous landmarks in the history of political degeneration, as well as the most important and clearly-outlined varieties of existing States. Cf. IV 445 C and infra 544 D ἥτις καὶ ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ τινι κεῖται.

ἵνα πάντας κτλ. reminds us of the thread which is the clue to the labyrinthine reasoning of the Republic: cf. 545 A, 548 D and II 368 E note

ἔχοι . The optative, for which Ast and Stallbaum needlessly read ἔχει with Ξ q and some other inferior MSS, is due to the oratio obliqua: cf. VII 515 D note

ἐρομένου . V 449 A.

ὥσπερ παλαιστής . The Scholiast remarks ἔθος γὰρ τούτοις, ὅταν πέσωσιν ὁμοῦ—πάλιν ἐγερθέντας ἐφ’ ὁμοίῳ συμπλακῆναι σχήματι, ὅπερ τὴν αὐτὴν εἶπε λάβην. Plato, as Stallbaum points out, uses the same figure in Phaedr. 236 B : cf. Phil. 13 D , Laws 682 E and ἀντιλαμβανόμενος VI 505 A note

ἐπιθυμῶ ‐‐ ἀκοῦσαι : ‘I am desirous also on my own account to hear’ sc. apart from the half-polemical motive suggested by the figure. Herwerden remarks “locus vix sanus,” but it is sound enough, although the English translators (“I shall particularly wish” etc. Jowett) miss the meaning.

ἥ τε ‐‐ ἐπαινουμένη . The Spartan constitution in its palmy days was widely praised for εὐνομία and discipline (pseudo-Archytas in Mullach Frag. Philos. Gr. I p. 560, Xen. Mem. III 5. 15 f., IV 4. 15, Plato Hipp. Mai. 283 E, 285 B, Laws 692 C and elsewhere), and became on this ground a sort of political ideal in the eyes of many Greeks: see for example Isocr. Panath. 108 ff. 200 ff. 216 ff. and the fragments of Critias' Λακεδαιμονίων πολιτεία in Müller Frag. Hist. Gr. II pp. 68 f. Cf. Nohle Statslehre Plat. pp. 108 ff. and Whibley Gk Olig. pp. 57 ff.

αὕτη : ista ‘that of yours,’ ‘your Cretan and Lacedaemonian constitution.’ On their connexion see Arist. Pol. B 10. 1271^{b} 22 ff. with Susemihl and Hicks's notes. It is, I think, fanciful to see in αὕτη an allusion to Glauco's sympathies for Sparta, in spite of 548 D below.

καὶ δευτέρως . Hermann prints his own conjecture ἡ δευτέρως, but the common confusion of καί and ἡ (Bast Comm. Pal. p. 815) is, I believe, later than the date of Paris A, and the text is free from objection: ‘and second in order as in esteem, a constitution fraught with many evils, bearing the name of oligarchy.’ δευτέρα agrees with πολιτεία, not with ὀλιγαρχία.

διάφορος : not of course ‘different’ (as Jowett), but ‘antagonistic,’ adversaria (Stallbaum). διάφορος ‘different’ gives a poor sense, and would take the genitive, which Ast erroneously proposed to read. Greek history furnished only too many proofs of the natural feud between democracy and oligarchy: see Greenidge Gk Const. Hist. pp. 208 ff. and Gilbert Gr. Staatsalt. II p. 285 note 2.

ἐφεξῆς γιγνομένη . From this and other indications it would appear on a first perusal that the sequence of commonwealths in VIII and IX is intended by Plato to be not merely logical, but historical also; but there is no question that the political evolution of Greek constitutions was far more complex than would appear from Plato's description. See on 543 A. We must above all things remember that it is in order to furnish a picture of the worst city and the worst man that the whole of this enquiry is undertaken, and Plato is at liberty to adopt whatever mode of presentation is best adapted for the object which he has in view. The form which he does in point of fact select is that of a historical narrative (see on 543 A, 548 D), but the real order of the development which he describes is a ‘logical order,’ and is primarily determined by psychological, and not by historical considerations. Although there are many points of contact between the development of Greek constitutional history and Plato's arrangement, Plato here employs narration primarily and chiefly as a vehicle or instrument for expressing the results of psychological analysis, and not because he believes that political development always and inevitably follows the same lines. See also on 543 A and infra 544 D.

διαφέρουσα κτλ. The reading of Ξ—see cr. n.—is confirmed by v and two other MSS, as well as by Stobaeus ( Flor. 43. 115) and Ficinus ( ab his omnibus differens). All other MSS appear to have διαφεύγουσα. “Errori—occasionem pronuntiatio non absimilis dedisse videtur” (Schneider). The word does not mean ‘differs’ (as Jowett) but ‘excels’ (ironically, of course, like ἡ γενναία δή). Father Rickaby has suggested to me that we should read καὶ ἡ πασῶν τούτων διαφέρουσα, ἡ γενναία δὴ τυραννίς, τέταρτον κτλ. The conjecture is an attractive one, both on other grounds and also because it enables us to retain the article which appears before πασῶν (see cr. n.) in A: but it is perhaps safer to follow Ξ.

νόσημα . Greek political theory regards tyrants as νοσήματα τῶν πόλεων (Isocr. Hel. 34: cf. Henkel l. c. p. 156).

ἢ τίνα . Ast and others write ἤ τινα (with slight MS support), but τίνα is perfectly good: cf. IX 573 A.

ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ τινι . See on 544 A.

δυναστεῖαι . δυναστεία is that form of polity in which the son succeeds the father καὶ ἄρχῃ μὴ ὁ νόμος ἀλλ’ οἱ ἄρχοντες (Arist. Pol. Δ 5. 1292^{b} 5 ff.: cf. Laws 680 A, B). Such a πολιτεία might be good, but was of course generally bad: see Susemihl and Hicks on Arist. Pol. B 10. 1272^{b} 3. Examples are pro vided by Thessaly (Thuc. IV 78. 3) and (about 480 B.C.) Thebes (Thuc. III 62. 3: cf. Gilbert Griech. Staatsalt. II pp. 10, 46). See Whibley Gk Olig. pp. 124— 126.

ὠνηταὶ βασιλεῖαι : like Carthage (Arist. l.c. 11. 1273^{a} 36 with Susemihl and Hicks p. 349). Herwerden sins through ignorance when he proposes αἱρεταί for ὠνηταί.

τοιαῦταί τινες : such as, for example, αἰσυμνητεία, and the other specific varieties (as Aristotle reckons them) of Plato's typical πολιτεῖαι: see Pol. Γ, Δ Ζ passim.

εὕροι δ’ ἂν κτλ. : whereas Plato confines himself to Greek history throughout VIII and IX.

καὶ ἀνθρώπων κτλ. Cf. IV 445 C, and on the principle here laid down see IV 435 E note The present passage is a clear and emphatic statement of the psychological basis on which Plato's philosophy of History rests. Political ἀδικία, like political δικαιοσύνη (IV 443 B note), is after all no more than εἴδωλόν τι: injustice in the truest sense is στάσις within the individual soul (IV 444 B), and social and political wrong-doing is but its outward manifestation. The double genitive, which is easy enough (cf. E below and V 449 A note), has led to the corruption τρόπον τινά in several MSS. Liebhold also suggests καὶ τρόπων instead of τρόπων. The expression εἴδη τρόπων (‘specific characters’) is treated as a single word, and should be repeated with πολιτειῶν: cf. IV 445 C ὅσοι πολιτειῶν τρόποι εἰσὶν εἴδη ἔχοντες, τοσοῦτοι κινδυνεύουσι καὶ ψυχῆς τρόποι εἶναι (a passage which proves, I think, that Schneider and Stallbaum are wrong in supplying only εἴδη with ὅσαπερ κτλ.)

ἐκ δρυὸς κτλ. Hom. Od. XIX 162 f. ἀλλὰ καὶ ὥς μοι εἰπὲ τεὸν γένος, ὁππόθεν ἐσσί· | οὐ γὰρ ἀπὸ δρυός ἐσσι παλαιφάτου οὐδ’ ἀπὸ πέτρης, i.e. you have a γένος (cf. Ap. 34 D ) and are not miraculously sprung ἀγενεαλογήτως out of tree or stone, like the fabled men of old (see Preller-Robert Gr. Myth. p. 79 note 4). In Plato the saying is used much like the German ‘es ist doch nicht aus der Luft gefallen’ (Schück de scholiis p. 32, where the proverb is illustrated).

ἃ ἂν κτλ. οἶ ἄν was read till Schneider on the authority of Ξ; but ἃ ἄν ( ΑΠ and a large majority of MSS) is quite satisfactory. “Reipublicae formae eos dicuntur sequi mores, qui in quavis civitate veluti pondere praegravantes ad se suamque regionem attraxerint reliqua” (Schneider, comparing for ῥέψαντα Hdt. VII 139). The word ῥεύσαντα ( Ξ and some other MSS) is unattic (Lobeck Phryn. p. 738): Plato's form is ῥυέντα e.g. VI 495 B.

ὀρθῶς is more naturally taken with φαμέν (Jowett etc.) than with the adjectives (as Schneider). We rightly call him ‘good’ etc., because he is ὅμοιος ἀριστο‐κρατίᾳ.