Plato Republic 6.485

ed. John Burnet

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Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)
Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 6.485 focus

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

κἀκεῖνα : viz. τἄλλα, as defined in ἐμπειρίᾳ—ὑστεροῦντας.

ταῦτα : i.e. ‘the special attributes of the philosopher’ (J. and C.).

ἐλέγομεν . V 474 B.

δεῖ . See cr. n. and Introd. § 5.

ἐκείνης τῆς οὐσίας . For the genitive cf. IV 445 E note

γενέσεως καὶ φθορᾶς have not yet been employed in this half-technical sense (Krohn Pl. St. p. 112). The substance of the Ideas always ‘is’: that of phenomena ‘is driven to and fro by generation and destruction’—by generation when it becomes determined in one particular direction (e.g. καλόν, ἵππος, ἄνθρωπος), by destruction when it loses that particular determination and puts on another. Cf. V 479 A, B. Plato's form of expression seems to imply that there is a sort of οὐσία or substratum in phenomena. At a later stage he seems to have identified this with space—the ἐκμαγεῖον —κινούμενόν τε καὶ διασχηματιζόμενον ὑπὸ τῶν εἰσιόντων, φαίνεται δὲ δἰ ἐκεῖνα ἄλλοτε ἀλλοῖον ( Tim. 50 C ): but of this there is no hint here. Cf. Zeller^{4} II 1. p. 725.

πάσης αὐτῆς : i.e. οὐσίας τῆς ἀεὶ οὔσης, not (as Ast) ἐπιστήμης or μαθήσεως.

οὔτε τιμιωτέρου κτλ. Cf. Parm. 130 C —E.

πρόσθεν . V 474 D—475 B.

τὴν ἀψεύδειαν κτλ. Cf. III 389 B.

ἑκόντας εἶναι is ‘voluntarily,’ not ‘if it can be helped’ (D. and V.): cf. I 336 E note

ψεῦδος should be understood in its strict Platonic sense, as ‘ignorance in the soul respecting the truth’ (II 382 B notes). The politician who knows not the Ideal is, according to Plato, a liar, not the statesman who employs for example κλῆροί τινες κομψοί to attain his Ideal. There is absolutely no reason to suppose (with Bosanquet) that Plato means to withdraw from the regulations of V 460 A.

τὸν ἐρωτικῶς κτλ. Love me, love my friend. The Philosopher loves Wisdom, and Truth is Wisdom's kinswoman and familiar friend.

ὥσπερ ῥεῦμα κτλ. The simile becomes almost an identification, as often in Greek: the desires are as it were a stream diverted εἰς ἕν τι. Cf. III 401 C (reading τις—ὥσπερ αὔρα), VII 519 A τὰς τῆς γενέσεως ξυγγενεῖς ὥσπερ μολυβδίδας and VII 534 D note To explain ἀπωχετευμένον as for ἀπωχετευμέναι (with Stallbaum and others) is to obtrude our standpoint upon the Greeks. Schneider formerly agreed with Stallbaum, but afterwards drew back ( Addit. p. 45) and translated “wie ein dorthin abgeleiteter Strom.”

τὰς δέ . τάς is probably an ‘internal accusative’ depending on ἐκλείποιεν, though rendered easier by the occurrence of περὶ τὴν ἡδονὴν—εἶεν ἄν just before. Schneider carries on περί, but the preposition is difficult to supply when the two clauses have different verbs. Cf. IV 428 C note

σώφρων κτλ. Cf. III 389 D —390 E.

ὧν γὰρ ἕνεκα : i.e. such bodily and other delights as money can buy.

χρήματα ‐‐ δαπάνης : ‘wealth with its accompaniment of lavish outlay.’ μετὰ πολλῆς δαπάνης should not, I think, be taken with σπουδάζεται (Schneider, D. and V., J. and C., although Jowett's translation takes the correct view), but rather with χρήματα. Herwerden formerly explained δαπάνης as= τῆς τοῦ δαπανᾶν ἐπιθυμίας, but afterwards ( Mnem. N. S. XIX p. 333) took it to mean “pecunia cuius ope sumptus fieret” comparing inter alia VIII 550 D and Laws 718 A. This view agrees closely with mine, but it is not necessary to suppose that δαπάνη means more than simply ‘outlay.’