Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 10.603

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[603] 603a
τὸ παρὰ τὰ μέτρα ἄρα δοξάζον τῆς ψυχῆς τῷ κατὰ τὰ μέτρα οὐκ ἂν εἴη ταὐτόν.
οὐ γὰρ οὖν.
ἀλλὰ μὴν τὸ μέτρῳ γε καὶ λογισμῷ πιστεῦον βέλτιστον ἂν εἴη τῆς ψυχῆς.
τί μήν;
τὸ ἄρα τούτῳ ἐναντιούμενον τῶν φαύλων ἄν τι εἴη ἐν ἡμῖν.
ἀνάγκη.
τοῦτο τοίνυν διομολογήσασθαι βουλόμενος ἔλεγον ὅτι ἡ γραφικὴ καὶ ὅλως ἡ μιμητικὴ πόρρω μὲν τῆς ἀληθείας ὂν τὸ αὑτῆς ἔργον ἀπεργάζεται, πόρρω δʼ αὖ φρονήσεως ὄντι τῷ 603b ἐν ἡμῖν προσομιλεῖ τε καὶ ἑταίρα καὶ φίλη ἐστὶν ἐπʼ οὐδενὶ ὑγιεῖ οὐδʼ ἀληθεῖ.
παντάπασιν, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
φαύλη ἄρα φαύλῳ συγγιγνομένη φαῦλα γεννᾷ ἡ μιμητική.
ἔοικεν.
πότερον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἡ κατὰ τὴν ὄψιν μόνον, ἢ καὶ κατὰ τὴν ἀκοήν, ἣν δὴ ποίησιν ὀνομάζομεν;
εἰκός γʼ, ἔφη, καὶ ταύτην.
μὴ τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τῷ εἰκότι μόνον πιστεύσωμεν ἐκ τῆς γραφικῆς, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐπʼ αὐτὸ αὖ ἔλθωμεν τῆς διανοίας 603c τοῦτο ᾧ προσομιλεῖ ἡ τῆς ποιήσεως μιμητική, καὶ ἴδωμεν φαῦλον ἢ σπουδαῖόν ἐστιν.
ἀλλὰ χρή.
ὧδε δὴ προθώμεθα· πράττοντας, φαμέν, ἀνθρώπους μιμεῖται ἡ μιμητικὴ βιαίους ἢ ἑκουσίας πράξεις, καὶ ἐκ τοῦ πράττειν ἢ εὖ οἰομένους ἢ κακῶς πεπραγέναι, καὶ ἐν τούτοις δὴ πᾶσιν ἢ λυπουμένους ἢ χαίροντας. μή τι ἄλλο ἦν παρὰ ταῦτα;
οὐδέν.
ἆρʼ οὖν ἐν ἅπασι τούτοις ὁμονοητικῶς ἄνθρωπος διάκειται; 603d ἢ ὥσπερ κατὰ τὴν ὄψιν ἐστασίαζεν καὶ ἐναντίας εἶχεν ἐν ἑαυτῷ δόξας ἅμα περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν, οὕτω καὶ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσι στασιάζει τε καὶ μάχεται αὐτὸς αὑτῷ; ἀναμιμνῄσκομαι δὲ ὅτι τοῦτό γε νῦν οὐδὲν δεῖ ἡμᾶς διομολογεῖσθαι· ἐν γὰρ τοῖς ἄνω λόγοις ἱκανῶς πάντα ταῦτα διωμολογησάμεθα, ὅτι μυρίων τοιούτων ἐναντιωμάτων ἅμα γιγνομένων ἡ ψυχὴ γέμει ἡμῶν.
ὀρθῶς, ἔφη.
ὀρθῶς γάρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· ἀλλʼ ὃ τότε ἀπελίπομεν, νῦν μοι 603e δοκεῖ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι διεξελθεῖν.
τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη.
ἀνήρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐπιεικὴς τοιᾶσδε τύχης μετασχών, ὑὸν ἀπολέσας ἤ τι ἄλλο ὧν περὶ πλείστου ποιεῖται, ἐλέγομέν που καὶ τότε ὅτι ῥᾷστα οἴσει τῶν ἄλλων.
πάνυ γε.
νῦν δέ γε τόδʼ ἐπισκεψώμεθα, πότερον οὐδὲν ἀχθέσεται, ἢ τοῦτο μὲν ἀδύνατον, μετριάσει δέ πως πρὸς λύπην.
οὕτω μᾶλλον, ἔφη, τό γε ἀληθές.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 10.603 focus

[603] The part of the soul, then, that opines in contradiction of measurement could not be the same with that which conforms to it. Why, no. But, further, that which puts its trust in measurement and reckoning must be the best part of the soul. Surely. Then that which opposes it must belong to the inferior elements of the soul. Necessarily. This, then, was what I wished to have agreed upon when I said that poetry, and in general the mimetic art, produces a product that is far removed from truth in the accomplishment of its task, and associates with the part in us 603b that is remote from intelligence, and is its companion and friend¹ for no sound and true purpose.² By all means, said he. Mimetic art, then, is an inferior thing cohabiting with an inferior and engendering inferior offspring.³ It seems so. Does that, said I, hold only for vision or does it apply also to hearing and to what we call poetry? Presumably, he said, to that also. Let us not, then, trust solely to the plausible analogy⁴ from painting, but let us approach in turn 603c that part of the mind to which mimetic poetry appeals and see whether it is the inferior or the nobly serious part. So we must. Let us, then, put the question thus: Mimetic poetry, we say, imitates human beings acting under compulsion or voluntarily,⁵ and as a result of their actions supposing themselves to have fared well or ill and in all this feeling either grief or joy. Did we find anything else but this? Nothing. Is a man, then, in all this 603d of one mind with himself, or just as in the domain of sight there was faction and strife and he held within himself contrary opinions at the same time about the same things,⁶ so also in our actions there is division and strife⁷ of the man with himself? But I recall that there is no need now of our seeking agreement on this point, for in our former discussion⁸ we were sufficiently agreed that our soul at any one moment teems with countless such self-contradictions. Rightly, he said. Yes, rightly, said I; but what we then omitted⁹ must now, I think, 603e be set forth. What is that? he said. When a good and reasonable man, said I, experiences such a stroke of fortune as the loss of a son or anything else that he holds most dear, we said, I believe, then too,¹⁰ that he will bear it more easily than the other sort. Assuredly. But now let us consider this: Will he feel no pain, or, since that is impossible, shall we say that he will in some sort be moderate¹¹ in his grief? That, he said, is rather the truth.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἔλεγον : viz. in πρὸς Διὸς— ἔχει 602 C, although Socrates reads more into πρὸς δὲ δὴ ποῖον—ἔχει than the mere words by themselves convey.

τῷ ἐν ἡμῖν κτλ. See on 602 C.

φαύλη ‐‐ μιμητική . Cf. VI 496 A.

ἢ καὶ ἡ . See cr. n. “Inter ἤ et κα facile καὶ ἡ excidere potuit” (Schneider).

μὴ τοίνυν κτλ. In 605 A Plato seems to think that his procedure in arguing from Painting to Poetry (597 E note) needs a word of explanation and defence. The following argument incidentally furnishes such a defence by deducing from an independent treatment of Poetry the conclusions to which we have already been led by τὸ εἰκὸς ἐκ τῆς γραφικῆς.

ὧδε δὴ προθώμεθα : ‘let us put it before us in this way.’ The object is easily supplied, and in other respects προτίθεσθαι is used as in II 375 D, Phil. 36 E and elsewhere: so that there is no good reason for suspecting the text. ὑποθώμεθα (Richards) has a different and less suitable meaning.

πράττοντας κτλ. Cf. Aristotle's definition of tragedy as μίμησις πράξεως κτλ. ( Poet. 6. 1449^{b} 24) and Plato Laws 817 A ff. See also Stählin Stellung d. Poesie etc. pp. 35 f.

μή τι ‐‐ ταῦτα ; ‘It was nothing beyond this, was it?’ I have adopted Ast's conjecture (see cr. n.), which Schneider also favours, in preference to omitting ᾖ with q and two other MSS, Stallbaum, and Baiter. The imperfect may be a reminiscence of III 399 A—C. The different usages of μή with the subjunctive have not yet been thoroughly explained (see Cl. Rev. X pp. 150—153, 239—244), but it seems clear that μή cannot in interrogative sentences with the 3rd person subjunctive mean ‘num,’ and the meaning ‘perhaps’ (as in μὴ ἀληθὲς ᾖ) is unsuitable. The only exact parallel to this idiom in Plato is Parm. 163 D where Heindorf similarly restores ἦν, apparently with Waddell's approval. See however on the other hand Goodwin MT. p. 93.

ἐστασίαζεν . 602 C ff.

τοῖς ἄνω λόγοις . IV 439 C ff.

καὶ τότε . III 387 D, E.

Plato Republic 10.603

ed. John Burnet

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