Plato Republic 7.517

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.517 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Like the philosopher in the court-room. Cf. Theaet. 172 C, 173 C ff., Gorg. 484 D-E. Cf. also on 387 C-D. 515 D, 517 D, Soph. 216 D, Laches 196 B, Phaedr. 249 D.
2. An obvious allusion to the fate of Socrates. For other stinging allusions to this Cf. Gorg. 486 B, 521 C, Meno 100 B-C. Cf. Hamlet’s
Wormwood, wormwood
(III. ii. 191). The text is disputed. See crit. note. A. Drachmann, Zu Platons Staat, Hermes, 1926, p. 110, thinks that an οἴει or something like it must be understood as having preceded, at least in Plato’s thought, and that ἀποκτείνειν can be taken as a gloss or variant of ἀποκτεινύναι and the correct reading must be λαβεῖν, καὶ ἀποκτεινύναι ἄν. See also Adam ad loc.
3. Cf. 508 B-C, where Arnou ( Le Désir de dieu dans la philos. de Plotin, p. 48 and Robin ( La Théorie plat. de l’amour, pp. 83-84) make τόπος νοητός refer to le ciel astronomique as opposed to the ὑπερουράνιος τόπος of the Phaedrus 247 A-E, 248 B, 248 D-249 A. The phrase νοητὸς κόσμος, often attributed to Plato, does not occur in his writings.
4. Plato was much less prodigal of affirmation about metaphysical ultimates than interpreters who take his myths literally have supposed. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 515, on Meno 86 B.
5. Cf. 506 E.
6. This is the main point for the Republic. The significance of the idea of good for cosmogony is just glanced at and reserved for the Timaeus. Cf. on 508 B, p. 102, note a and p. 505-506. For the practical application Cf. Meno 81 D-E. See also Introd. pp. xxxv-xxxvi.
7. Cf. 521 A, 345 E, and Vol. I. on 347 D, p. 81, note d.
8. Cf. 346 E.
9. Cf. Theaet. 174 C
ἀσχημοσύνη
.
10. For the contrast between the philosophical and the pettifogging soul Cf. Theaet. 173 C-175 E. Cf. also on 517 A, p 128, note b.
11. For ἀγαλμάτων cf. my Idea of Good in Plato’s Republic, p. 237, Soph. 234 C, Polit. 303 C.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

οὗτος δ’ ὁ χρόνος κτλ. is still under the influence of εἰ. With ἆρ’ οὐ γέλωτ’ ἂν κτλ. cf. Phaedr. 249 D ἐξιστάμενος δὲ τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων σπουδασμάτων, καὶ πρὸς τῷ θείῳ γιγνόμενος, νουθετεῖται μὲν ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν ὡς παρακινῶν, ἐνθουσιάζων δὲ λέληθε τοὺς πολλούς, Theaet. 172 C , 174 C—175 B, Soph. 216 D and infra 517 D.

οὐκ ἄξιον κτλ. The prisoners are almost relieved to find themselves able to suppress their higher promptings and sink back into indolence and self-complacency.

καὶ τὸν ἐπιχειροῦντα κτλ. is a mani fest and touching allusion to the death of Socrates, whose fate was the most conspicuous example in Greek history of the principle here laid down. See Zeller^{4} II 1, pp. 223—227 and cf. VI 496 C, D notes Read in the light of another and even more momentous sacrifice, the sentence assumes a kind of prophetical import, like the famous passage about the λόγος θεῖος in the Phaedo (85 C, D). See Geddes's Phaedo of Plato pp. 280—283. The text is difficult to determine. If we retain λαβεῖν καὶ ἀποκτείνειν, ἀποκτιννύναι ἄν, we must either a regard ἆρ’ οὐ— λέγοιτ’ ἄν as equivalent to ἆρ’ οὐκ οἴει γέλωτ’ ἂν αὐτὸν παρασχεῖν καὶ λέγεσθαι ἄν, and take λέγεσθαι ἄν as equivalent to ἐκείνους ἂν εἰπεῖν, carrying on ἐκείνους as subject to ἀποκτιννύναι ἄν (Schneider), or b supply οὐκ οἴει, although these words do not occur after 516 C (J. and C.). The second solution is preferable to the first, but either is a tour de force. No satisfactory explanation of the infinitive ἀποκτιννύναι ἄν appears to be possible, and the immediate juxtaposition of the two forms of the infinitive is also in itself suspicious. A few inferior MSS read ἀποκτενεῖν for the ἀποκτείνειν and αὖ for the ἄν of A: but otherwise there is no important variant. The emendations proposed are (1) λαβεῖν, κἂν ἀποκτείνειαν (Ast), (2) λαβεῖν, καὶ ἀποκτείνοιεν ἄν (Stallbaum), (3) λαβεῖν, κἂν ἀποκτιννύοιεν (Cobet), (4) λαβεῖν, καὶ ἀποκτείνειαν ἄν (Baiter). The correction in the text appears to me not only easier, but more in harmony with Plato's fulness of expression. I suppose that the error arose thus. A scribe accidentally omitted ἀποκτιννύναι, and the infinitive was wrongly replaced after, instead of before, ἀποκτείνειαν. This would give λαβεῖν καὶ ἀποκτείνειαν, ἀποκτιννύναι ἄν, from which the change is inevitable to the text of A.

ταύτην κτλ. If we interpret the lower section of the line as ὁρατόν and nothing more, the following comparisons are involved:—(1) Fire=Sun: (2) Shadows of ἀνδριάντες and other σκευαστά cast by Fire = Shadows etc. of φυτευτά and σκευαστά cast by the Sun: (3) ἀνδριάντες and other σκευαστά in the Cave= φυτευτά and σκευαστά in the ὁρατόν: (4) the ascent from the Cave into the ὁρατόν=the ascent from the ὁρατόν into the νοητόν. The second comparison is of little or no importance, for the ἀπαίδευτος, of whose condition the Cave is an allegory, does not contemplate exclusively or even principally natural shadows of φυτευτά and σκευαστά (cf. VI 511 E note). Nor do the other comparisons exhaust the significance of the Cave as an allegory of ἀπαιδευσία. In order fully to apprehend its meaning, we must regard the lower section of the line as δοξαστόν in the sense of V 475 E ff. Plato himself does so: see VI 510 A note The shadows and originals within the cave will then symbolise δόξαι which are respectively twice and once removed from the truth which they seek to portray (see on 517 D), and the ascent from the Cave into the ὁρατόν will represent the soul's ascent from the δοξαστόν into the νοητόν—from the πολλά (in the widest sense) to the ἕν. Cf. 514 B and 532 B, C notes

ἐλπίδος : ‘surmise’: cf. II 383 B note The diffidence of tone recals VI 506 E: cf. infr. 523 A.

φαίνεται . For the construction cf. I 334 B note

τελευταία as well as μόγις should be taken predicatively with ὁρᾶσθαι. The sentiment is as in VI 505 A ( ὅτι—ἴσμεν), where see note.

τεκοῦσα κτλ. τεκοῦσα reminds us that the Sun is the ἔκγονος of the Good (VI 506 E). On ἀλήθειαν καὶ νοῦν see VI 508 D note ὅτι δεῖ depends on φαίνεται, not (as D. and V. translate) on συλλογιστέα. Cf. VI 505 A, 506 A notes Plato's guardians are not to rest satisfied with the εἰκών or ἔκγονος of the Good; they must see the Good itself, and infer (not by intuition, but) by means of reasoning ( συλλογιστέα) that it is the cause of all. See the notes on VI 511 B ( αὐτὸς ὁ λόγος and τοῦ ἀνυποθέτου).

ἀσχημονεῖ κτλ. Cf. Theaet. 174 B , C ὅταν ἐν δικαστηρίῳ ἤ που ἄλλοθι ἀναγκασθῇ περὶ τῶν παρὰ πόδας—διαλέγεσθαι, γέλωτα παρέχει—ἡ ἀσχημοσύνη δεινὴ—γελοῖος φαίνεται. The whole of the description of the φιλόσοφος in the Theaetetus should be carefully compared with this passage.

ἔτι ἀμβλυώττων is logically subordinate to ἀναγκαζόμενος.

τῶν τοῦ δικαίου κτλ. treats the Cave as an allegory of δοξαστά (see on VI 510 A, VII 517 A). The expression ‘shadows of the just’ is vague (cf. σκιαμαχούντων in 520 C), and ἢ ἀγαλμάτων ὧν αἱ σκιαί introduces more precision. We may regard ἀγαλμάτων as symbolising the enacted laws of a city, and their shadows as the “representation or misrepresentation of the existing laws (themselves only ‘images’ of justice) by a rhetorician or pleader” (Nettleship Hell. p. 141 note 1). Compare (with Shorey Idea of Good etc. p. 287) Soph. 234 C and Pol. 303 C .

ὅπῃ ποτὲ ‐‐ ἰδόντων . For the real point at issue is not the law, but the judges' interpretation thereof. Plato is doubtless thinking of Socrates and his judges throughout the whole of this passage.