Plato, Republic, Paul Shorey (Translator), 4.445

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[445]
And now at last, it seems, it remains for us to consider whether it is profitable to do justice 445a and practice honorable pursuits and be just, whether¹ one is known to be such or not, or whether injustice profits, and to be unjust, if only a man escape punishment and is not bettered by chastisement.² Nay, Socrates, he said, I think that from this point on our inquiry becomes an absurdity³—if, while life is admittedly intolerable with a ruined constitution of body even though accompanied by all the food and drink and wealth and power in the world, we are yet to be asked to suppose that, when the very nature and constitution of that whereby we live⁴ is disordered 445b and corrupted, life is going to be worth living, if a man can only do as he pleases,⁵ and pleases to do anything save that which will rid him of evil and injustice and make him possessed of justice and virtue—now that the two have been shown to be as we have described them. Yes, it is absurd, said I; but nevertheless, now that we have won to this height, we must not grow weary in endeavoring to discover⁶ with the utmost possible clearness that these things are so. That is the last thing in the world we must do, he said. 445c Come up here⁷ then, said I, that you may see how many are the kinds of evil, I mean those that it is worth while to observe and distinguish.⁸ I am with you, he said; only do you say on. And truly, said I, now that we have come to this height⁹ of argument I seem to see as from a point of outlook that there is one form¹⁰ of excellence, and that the forms of evil are infinite, yet that there are some four among them that it is worth while to take note of. What do you mean? he said. As many as are the varieties of political constitutions that constitute specific types, so many, it seems likely, 445d are the characters of soul. How many, pray? There are five kinds of constitutions, said I, and five kinds of soul. Tell me what they are, he said. I tell you, said I, that one way of government would be the constitution that we have just expounded, but the names that might be applied to it are two.¹¹ If one man of surpassing merit rose among the rulers, it would be denominated royalty; if more than one, aristocracy. True, he said. Well, then, I said, this is one of the forms I have in mind. 445e For neither would a number of such men, nor one if he arose among them, alter to any extent worth mentioning the laws of our city—if he preserved the breeding and the education that we have described. It is not likely, he said.

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 4.445 focus

[445]
τὸ δὴ λοιπὸν ἤδη, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἡμῖν ἐστι σκέψασθαι 445a πότερον αὖ λυσιτελεῖ δίκαιά τε πράττειν καὶ καλὰ ἐπιτηδεύειν καὶ εἶναι δίκαιον, ἐάντε λανθάνῃ ἐάντε μὴ τοιοῦτος ὤν, ἢ ἀδικεῖν τε καὶ ἄδικον εἶναι, ἐάνπερ μὴ διδῷ δίκην μηδὲ βελτίων γίγνηται κολαζόμενος.
ἀλλʼ, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, γελοῖον ἔμοιγε φαίνεται τὸ σκέμμα γίγνεσθαι ἤδη, εἰ τοῦ μὲν σώματος τῆς φύσεως διαφθειρομένης δοκεῖ οὐ βιωτὸν εἶναι οὐδὲ μετὰ πάντων σιτίων τε καὶ ποτῶν καὶ παντὸς πλούτου καὶ πάσης ἀρχῆς, τῆς δὲ αὐτοῦ τούτου ᾧ ζῶμεν φύσεως ταραττομένης καὶ 445b διαφθειρομένης βιωτὸν ἄρα ἔσται, ἐάνπερ τις ποιῇ ὃ ἂν βουληθῇ ἄλλο πλὴν τοῦτο ὁπόθεν κακίας μὲν καὶ ἀδικίας ἀπαλλαγήσεται, δικαιοσύνην δὲ καὶ ἀρετὴν κτήσεται, ἐπειδήπερ ἐφάνη γε ὄντα ἑκάτερα οἷα ἡμεῖς διεληλύθαμεν.
γελοῖον γάρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· ἀλλʼ ὅμως ἐπείπερ ἐνταῦθα ἐληλύθαμεν, ὅσον οἷόν τε σαφέστατα κατιδεῖν ὅτι ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχει οὐ χρὴ ἀποκάμνειν.
ἥκιστα, νὴ τὸν Δία, ἔφη, πάντων ἀποκμητέον. 445c
δεῦρό νυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἵνα καὶ ἴδῃς ὅσα καὶ εἴδη ἔχει ἡ κακία, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, ἅ γε δὴ καὶ ἄξια θέας.
ἕπομαι, ἔφη· μόνον λέγε.
καὶ μήν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὥσπερ ἀπὸ σκοπιᾶς μοι φαίνεται, ἐπειδὴ ἐνταῦθα ἀναβεβήκαμεν τοῦ λόγου, ἓν μὲν εἶναι εἶδος τῆς ἀρετῆς, ἄπειρα δὲ τῆς κακίας, τέτταρα δʼ ἐν αὐτοῖς ἄττα ὧν καὶ ἄξιον ἐπιμνησθῆναι.
πῶς λέγεις; ἔφη.
ὅσοι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πολιτειῶν τρόποι εἰσὶν εἴδη ἔχοντες, τοσοῦτοι κινδυνεύουσι καὶ ψυχῆς τρόποι εἶναι.
πόσοι δή; 445d
πέντε μέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πολιτειῶν, πέντε δὲ ψυχῆς.
λέγε, ἔφη, τίνες.
λέγω, εἶπον, ὅτι εἷς μὲν οὗτος ὃν ἡμεῖς διεληλύθαμεν πολιτείας εἴη ἂν τρόπος, ἐπονομασθείη δʼ ἂν καὶ διχῇ· ἐγγενομένου μὲν γὰρ ἀνδρὸς ἑνὸς ἐν τοῖς ἄρχουσι διαφέροντος βασιλεία ἂν κληθείη, πλειόνων δὲ ἀριστοκρατία.
ἀληθῆ, ἔφη.
τοῦτο μὲν τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἓν εἶδος λέγω· οὔτε γὰρ ἂν 445e πλείους οὔτε εἷς ἐγγενόμενοι κινήσειεν ἂν τῶν ἀξίων λόγου νόμων τῆς πόλεως, τροφῇ τε καὶ παιδείᾳ χρησάμενος ᾗ διήλθομεν.
οὐ γὰρ εἰκός, ἔφη.

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. ἐάν τε . . . ἐάν τε: Cf. 337 C, 367 E, 427 D, 429 E.

2. Cf. Gorgias 512 A-B, and on 380 B.

3. Cf. on 456 D. On the following argumentum ex contrario Cf. on 336 E.

4. Cf. on 353 D and Aristotle De anima 414 a 12 ff. Cf. Unity of Plato’s Thought, p. 41.

5. Cf. 577 D, Gorgias 466 E. If all men desire the good, he who does evil does not do what he really wishes.

6. ὅσον . . . κατιδεῖν is generally taken as epexegetic of ἐνταῦθα. It is rather well felt with οὐ χρὴ ἀποκάμνειν.

7. Cf. Apology 25 C.

8. ἅ γε δὴ καὶ ἄξια θέας: for καί Cf. Sophist 223 A, 229 D, Timaeus 83 C, Politicus 285 B, and 544 A, C-D. By the strict theory of ideas any distinction may mark a class, and so constitute an idea. (Cf. De Platonis Idearum Doctrina, pp. 22-25.) But Plato’s logical practice recognizes that only typical or relevant Ideas are worth naming or considering. The Republic does not raise the metaphysical question how a true idea is to be distinguished from a part or from a partial or casual concept. Cf. Unity of Plato’s Thought, pp. 52-53, n. 381, Politicus 263 A-B.

9. Cf. 588 B, Emerson, Nominalist and Realist, ii. p. 256:

We like to come to a height of land and see the landscape, just as we value a general remark in a conversation.

Cf. Lowell, Democracy, Prose Works, vi. 8:

He who has mounted the tower of Plato to look abroad from it will never hope to climb another with so lofty a vantage of speculation.

From this and 517 A-B, the ἀνάβασις became a technical or cant term in Neoplatonism.

10. ἓν μέν, etc.: perhaps a faint remembrance of the line ἐσθλοὶ μὲν γὰρ ἁπλῶς, παντοδαπῶς δὲ κακοί, quoted by Aristotle Eth. Nic. 1106 b 35. It suggests Plato’s principle of the unity of virtue, as ἄπειρα below suggests the logical doctrine of the Philebus 16 and Parmenides 145 A, 158 B-C that the other of the definite idea is the indefinite and infinite.

11. The true state is that in which knowledge governs. It may be named indifferently monarchy, or aristocracy, according as such knowledge happens to be found in one or more than one. It can never be the possession of many. Cf. 494 A. The inconsistencies which some critics have found between this statement and other parts of the Republic, are imaginary. Hitherto the Republic has contemplated a plurality of rulers, and such is its scheme to the end. But we are explicitly warned in 540 D and 587 D that this is a matter of indefference. It is idle then to argue with Immisch, Krohn, and others that the passage marks a sudden, violent alteration of the original design.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἐάν τε λανθάνῃ . Cf. 427 D and II 367 E.

βελτίων ‐‐ κολαζόμενος . II 380 B note

ᾧ ζῶμεν . Cf. I 353 D τί δ) αὖ τὸ ζῆν; ψυχῆς φήσομεν ἔργον εἶναι; μάλιστά γε and note ad loc. βιωτὸν ἄρα ἔσται should not be made interrogative. The sentence means: ‘if life, which men deem unbearable when the bodily constitution decays, even when they are surrounded by every variety of food and drink and wealth and power, shall be, forsooth, when tumult and decay affect the constitution of the very principle whereby we live, worth living, if so be we do what we desire, and take no steps to escape from wickedness and injustice, and acquire justice and virtue.’ Life is not (says Plato) βιωτός to the guilty man who works his will; it may become so if he takes steps to rid himself of vice, i.e. ἐὰν διδῷ δίκην καὶ βελτίων γίγνηται κολαζόμενος. For the sentiment cf. Crit. 47 D , E, Gorg. 477 B —E, Prot. 313 A , B.

ὅσον ‐‐ σαφέστατα . “Quam certissime fieri potest” is Ficinus' rendering, with which Schneider and later editors agree, taking κατιδεῖν as explanatory of ἐνταῦθα. But it is hard to find another instance of ὅσον οἶόν τε, although καθ’ ὅσον οἷόν τε and ὅσον δυνατόν (Thuc. I 22. 2) occur. ὡς οἷόν τε is the almost invariable phrase. For ὅσον Stephanus proposed ὅθεν, Ast ὅπου. I think the meaning is ‘now that we have come far enough to be able most clearly to descry that these things are so,’ ἐνταῦθα being equivalent to ἐπὶ τοσοῦτον, and ὅσον οἷόν τε to ὅσον ἐλθόντας οἷόν τέ ἐστιν.

ἀποκνητέον . I have reverted to the MS reading. Bekker's emendation ἀποκμητέον is very attractive, but ἀποκνητέον gives excellent sense (cf. I 349 A), and there is no real reason why Glauco should repeat the word employed by Socrates (see on V 465 E); nor does there appear to be any instance in Greek literature of the verbal of ἀποκάμνω.

ἄξια θέας . Plato does not claim that his enumeration of degenerate commonwealths is complete. Cf. VIII 544 D.

ἓν ‐‐ κακίας . An old Pythagorean principle, whence the parade with which Plato announces it. See Arist. Met. I 5. 986^{a} 22 ff. (RP.^{7} § 55) and Eth. Nic. I 4. 1096^{b} 6 with Stewart's note.

εἴδη ἔχοντες : ‘having’ (i.e. as we should say ‘forming’) ‘specific kinds’: cf. VIII 544 D.

ἐγγενομένου ‐‐ ἀριστοκρατία . Knowledge, not number, is the criterion of good government: cf. Pol. 292 C . Hitherto however the rulers have always been represented as a plurality, and we have heard nothing of a king. In the later books (from V 473 C onwards) we often hear of kingship; and in IX 576 D (as Newman points out Politics of Aristotle I p. 413 note) the ideal city is called βασιλευομένην, οἵαν τὸ πρῶτον διήλθομεν. With the present passage cf. VII 540 D ἢ πλείους ἢ εἷς and IX 587 D, where the ἀριστοκρατικός and the βασιλικός are identified. The fact is, as Henkel has pointed out ( Stud. zur Gesch. d. gr. Lehr. v. St. p. 57), that “Kingship is only a form of Aristocracy throughout the whole political theory of antiquity, and rests on no distinct and independent basis of its own.” It must be regarded as exceptional when in the Politicus (302 C ff.), probably a later dialogue, Plato distinguishes between kingship and aristocracy and places aristocracy on a lower plane. See also Whibley Gk. Olig. pp. 15 ff.

τῶν ‐‐ νόμων . For the genitive cf. (with Stallbaum) Gorg. 514 A δημοσίᾳ πράξοντας τῶν πολιτικῶν πραγμάτων, and infra VI 485 B.

Plato Republic 4.445

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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