Plato Republic 3.409

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 3.409 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. ὀψιμαθῆ: here in a favorable sense, but usually an untranslatable Greek word for a type portrayed in a charater of Theophrastus.
2. For this type of character cf. Thucydides iii. 83, and my comments in T.A.P.A. vol. xxiv. p. 79. Cf. Burke, Letter to the Sheriffs of Bristol :
They who raise suspicions on the good on account of the behavior of ill men, are of the party of the latter;
Stobaeus ii. p. 46
Βίας ἔφη, οἱ ἀγαθοὶ εὐαπάτητοι
, Menander, fr. 845 Kock
χρηστοῦ παρ’ ἀνδρὸς μηδὲν ὑπονόει κακόν
.
3. Cf. George Eliot, Adam Bede, chap. xiv.:
It is our habit to say that while the lower nature can never understand the higher, the higher nature commands a complete view of the lower. But I think the higher nature has to learn this comprehension by a good deal of hard experience.
4. Cf. Theaetetus 176 D
It is far best not to concede to the unjust that they are clever knaves, for they glory in the taunt.
Cf. Unity of Plato’s Thought, n. 21.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

αὐτήν : ipsam, not eam, as Jowett apparently translates it.

διὸ δὴ καὶ εὐήθεις . “For unstained thoughts do seldom dream on evil: Birds never limed no secret bushes fear” ( Rape of Lucrece). Cf. infra VII 517 D ff., Theaet. 174 C ff. The use of παραδείγματα recalls Theaet. 176 E , though the idea is somewhat different here. The word means ‘models,’ ‘standards,’ not ‘samples of experience’ (J. and C.), and τοῖς πονηροῖς is equivalent to τοῖς τῶν πονηρῶν παραδείγμασι. Cf. infra C, D, where παράδειγμα τοῦ τοιούτου is ‘a model’ (not ‘a sample’) ‘of such a character.’ So also Schneider, who translates by ‘Vorbild.’

ὀψιμαθῆ κτλ. The common taunt ὀψιμαθής is in such a case an epithet of praise.

οὐκ οἰκείαν κτλ. For the asyndeton see 407 D note δεῖ αἰσθάνεσθαι for διαισθάνεσθαι (Stob. Flor. 45. 96) is ingenious, but weak. As Steinhart remarks ( Einleitung p. 173), the scientific knowledge of virtue, according to Socrates and Plato, implies a knowledge of its opposite, viz. vice: see on I 334 A, and cf. infra 409 D.

οἰόμενος . Cf. Theaet. 173 B δεινοί τε καὶ σοφοὶ γεγονότες, ὡς οἴονται, and I 336 A note

καὶ πρεσβυτέροις κτλ. The touching allusion to Socrates' condemnation will not escape the sympathetic reader. Plato seldom talks in this vein without thinking of his master: cf. Theact. 174 C and the still more affecting words in VII 517 A. It is from incidental references such as these that we can best appreciate the profound influence which the death of Socrates exercised upon Plato. See also VIII 560 D note

πονηρία μὲν γὰρ ‐‐ λήψεται . See on 409 B and the suggestive remarks of Stewart on Aristotle's Eth. Nic. V 1. 1129^{a} 17. Strictly speaking, Vice cannot have scientific knowledge ( ἐπιστήμη) even of herselt, since Vice is ignorance (and scientific knowledge of Vice would imply a scientific knowledge of Virtue); but she recognises herself by ἐμπειρία οἰκεία: cf. 409 B.

ἀρετὴ δὲ κτλ. : ‘whereas Virtue will in course of time, if natural endowments are improved by education, attain to scientific knowledge at once of herself and Vice.’ The contrast between πονηρία μέν and ἀρετὴ δέ is much impaired if we connect ἀρετή with φύσεως (in the sense of ‘a virtuous nature’): and for this reason I now agree with Schneider in thinking φύσεως παιδευομένης a genitive absolute. I formerly accepted Richards' emendation παιδευομένη, which is decidedly more logical, if φύσεως depends on ἀρετή: but Schneider's view is better. χρόνῳ belongs to λήψεται, and not to παιδευομένης (as if ‘educated by time,’ Jowett): mere lapse of time will never give ἐπιστήμη. Cf. ὀψιμαθῆ and ἐν πολλῷ χρόνῳ διαισθάνεσθαι in 409 B.