Homer Iliad 11.668

Samuel Butler (Translator)

Iliad. Homer. Samuel Butler (Translator). London. 1898.

Current edition Perseus

Iliad (English) (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.)

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 11.655 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 11.655 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 11.655 focus
“Why should Achilles care to know how many of the Achaeans may be wounded? He reckons not the grief [ penthos] that reigns in our army of warriors; our most valiant chieftains lie disabled, brave Diomedes, son of Tydeus, is wounded; [660] so are Odysseus and spear-famed Agamemnon; Eurypylos has been hit with an arrow in the thigh, and I have just been bringing this man from the field—he too wounded—with an arrow; nevertheless Achilles, so valiant though he be, cares not. [665] Will he wait till the ships, do what we may, are in a blaze, and we perish one upon the other? As for me, I have no strength nor stay in me any longer; would that I were still young and strong [670] as in the days when there was a fight between us and the men of Elis about some cattle-raiding. I then killed Itymoneus the valiant son of Hypeirokhos a dweller in Elis, as I was driving in the spoil; he was hit by a dart thrown by my hand while fighting in the front rank in defense of his cows, [675] so he fell and the country people around him were in great fear. We drove off a vast quantity of booty from the plain, fifty herds of cattle and as many flocks of sheep; fifty droves also of pigs, and as many wide-spreading flocks of goats. Of horses moreover we seized a hundred and fifty, all of them mares, [680] and many had foals running with them. All these did we drive by night to Pylos, the city of Neleus, taking them within the city; and the heart of Neleus was glad in that I had taken so much, though it was the first time I had ever been in the field. At daybreak the heralds went round crying [685] that all in Elis to whom there was a debt owing should come; and the leading Pylians assembled to divide the spoils. There were many to whom the Epeioi owed chattels, for we men of Pylos were few and had been oppressed with wrong; in former years Hēraklēs had come, and had laid his hand heavy upon us, [690] so that all our best men had perished. Lordly Neleus had had twelve sons, but I alone was left; the others had all been killed. The bronze-armored Epeioi presuming upon all this had looked down upon us and had done us much evil. [695]
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 11.655 focus
Then Nestor, the Gerenian knight, rejoined: -
"Why does Achilles pity thus the sons
Of Greece when wounded? Little can he know
What sorrow reigns throughout the Grecian host
While, smitten in the close or distant fight,
800
Our bravest lie disabled in their ships.
The valiant son of Tydeus - Diomed -
Is wounded; wounded Agamemnon lies,
And the great wielder of the javelin,
Ulysses. By an arrow in the thigh
805
Eurypylus is smitten, and I now
Bring home this warrior with an arrow-wound.
Yet doth Achilles, valiant as he is,
Care nothing for the Greeks. Will he then wait
Till our swift galleys, moored upon the shore,
810
After a vain defence shall feed the flames
Lit by the enemy's hand, and we be slain,
And perish, heaps on heaps? My strength is now
Not that which dwelt in these once active limbs.
Would I were strong and vigorous as of yore,
815
When strife arose between our men and those
Of Elis for our oxen driven away,
And, driving off their beeves in turn, I slew
The Elean chief, the brave Itymoneus,
Son of Hypirochus! For, as he sought
820
To save his herd, a javelin from my arm
Smote him the first among his band. He fell;
His rustic followers fled on every side;
And mighty was the spoil we took: of beeves
We drave off fifty herds, as many flocks
825
Of sheep, of swine as many, and of goats
An equal number, and of yellow steeds
Thrice fifty; - these were mares, and by their sides
Ran many a colt. We drave them all within
Neleian Pylos in the night. Well pleased
830
Was Neleus, that so large a booty fell
To me, who entered on the war so young.
When morning brake, the heralds' cry was heard
Summoning all the citizens to meet
To whom from fruitful Elis debts were due;
835
And then the princes of the Pyleans came,
And made division of the spoil. For much
The Epeians owed us: we were yet but few
In Pylos, and had suffered grievously.
The mighty Hercules in former years
840
Had made us feel his wrath, and of our men
Had slain the bravest: of the twelve who drew
Their birth from Neleus, I alone am left;
The others fell. The Epeians brazen-mailed
Saw this, delighted, and insulted us
845
And did us wrong. When now the spoil was shared
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 11.655 focus
'Can then the sons of Greece' (the sage rejoin'd)
800
'Excite compassion in Achilles' mind?
'Seeks he the sorrows of our host to know?
'This is not half the story of our woe.
'Tell him, not great Machaon bleeds alone,
'Our bravest heroes in the navy groan;
805
'Ulysses, Agamemnon, Diomed,
'And stern Eurypylus, already bleed.
'But ah! what flattering hopes I entertain!
'Achilles heeds not, but derides our pain;
'E'en till the flames consume our fleet he stays,
810
'And waits the rising of the fatal blaze.
'Chief after chief the raging foe destroys;
'Calm he looks on, and every death enjoys.
'Now the slow course of all-impairing time
'Unstrings my nerves, and ends my manly prime;
815
'Oh! had I still that strength my youth possess'd,
'When this bold arm th' Epeian powers oppress'd,
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 11.655 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 11.655 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 11.655 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 11 focus

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

in the context of analyzing the parallels and contrast between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

analysis of the parallels and contrasts between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

the correspondence of Nestor’s story in I.11.670-761 to the cattleman twin and horseman twin distinction of the Vedic twin gods

source

Nestor’s story in this passage in the Iliad as his myth

source

citation of Nestor’s traditional story

source

example of Nestor’s deeply traditional connection to cattle and sun symbolism, as indicated by the story of boēlasíē.

source

Nestor’s becoming a warrior in his myth and the difference between the cattle raid and the battle

source

analysis of the significance of the cattle raid in Nestor’s myth (sustenance and life, bringing his people back from extinction/to life)

source

citation of Nestor’s traditional story

source

Nestor’s becoming a warrior in his myth and the difference between the cattle raid and the battle

source

Nestor’s becoming a warrior in his myth and the difference between the cattle raid and the battle

source

citation of Nestor’s traditional story

source

analysis of the significance of the cattle raid in Nestor’s myth (sustenance and life, bringing his people back from extinction/to life)

source

Nestor’s becoming a warrior in his myth and the difference between the cattle raid and the battle

source

citation of Nestor’s traditional story

source

analysis of the significance of the cattle raid in Nestor’s myth (sustenance and life, bringing his people back from extinction/to life)

source

analysis of the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the meaning of Nestor’s name as “he who brings back to life” and its relevance to the cattle raid in Nestor’s story

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

discrepancy in the number of sons of Neleus between the Iliad and the Odyssey

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the movements in time in the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

analysis of the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

comment on the weakness in the line as triēkosia has no noun to modify

source

Lorimer on the dating of the four-horse chariot [MRBTP: 'ff']

source

reference to the tradition of the Epeian king, Augeías

source

analysis of the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC, with tōn in this verse as a sign that the story of Neleus’s chariot is not integral to the older version of the story

source

analysis of the expansion in Nestor’s story, which relates to the Olympic celebration of 420 BC

source

passages in Nestor’s story that Cantieni argued are later expansions

source

analysis of the battle and the role of horses in Nestor’s myth (Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota)

source

citation of Nestor’s traditional story

source

analysis of the battle and the role of horses in Nestor’s myth (Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota)

source

analysis of the chronological order of Nestor’s stories in Iliad 7, 11, and 23

source

comparison of the openings of the expansions in Nestor’s story with other Homeric verses (the similarity of the expansions to Homeric formulas)

source

comparison of the geography in I.02.592 with that in this verse (esp. regarding Thryoessa and Thryon in the two passages)

source

disagreement with Kiechle regarding the location of Pylos (with regard to tēlou in this verse)

source

locations/geography in Nestor’s story (expansion)

source

Cantieni’s argument for dē having been changed to pan in this verse

source

passages in Nestor’s story that Cantieni argued are later expansions

source

analysis of the battle and the role of horses in Nestor’s myth (Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota)

source

Nestor’s becoming a warrior in his myth and the difference between the cattle raid and the battle

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

source

comparison of the openings of the expansions in Nestor’s story with other Homeric verses (the similarity of the expansions to Homeric formulas)

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

source

locations/geography in Nestor’s story (expansion)

source

the location of Alpheios, the use of endioi in the expansion of Nestor’s story, and the latter’s significance for Alcibiades and Endios

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story, and his omission of the two final lines of the second passage (I.11.735-736)

source

Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story, and his omission of the two final lines of the second passage (I.11.735-736)

source

passages in Nestor’s story that Cantieni argued are later expansions

source

analysis of the battle and the role of horses in Nestor’s myth (Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota)

source

Augeias’ and his daughter Agamede’s small role in Nestor’s story

source

analysis of Nestor’s relationship to the Epeian king, Augeías, whose name is related to the noun augḗ, which suggests the “radiance” of the sun. Indicates that Augeías was originally connected with the sun. His daughter, Agamḗde, is another name for Mḗdeia, who in later tradition was considered to be the granddaughter of Helios. By capturing the Epeian herds, Nestor, in effect, captures the cattle of the sun

source

analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

source

analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

source

the creation of realistic distances in the expansion of Nestor’s story (locating Pylos in Triphylia, using Alpheios to break up the action to realistic stages)

source

comparison of the geography in I.02.617 with that in this verse (esp. regarding Alēsion in the two passages)

source

analysis of the location of the Olenian Rock and other features of the geography in the passage and I.2

source

Bölte’s argument for the location of the landmarks in this verse to make it plausible that Nestor and the Pylians would have been able to cover it in a one day rout of the Epeians

source

the creation of realistic distances in the expansion of Nestor’s story (locating Pylos in Triphylia, using Alpheios to break up the action to realistic stages) – Cantieni’s effect of the third expansion of Nestor’s story (these verses)

source

analysis of Nestor as a possible type of Nehélāwos, “he who brings the war-folk safely home.” However, argues that name’s relation to nóos “indicates that he is deeply traditional figure, whose roots go back to a time when the relation between nóos and néomai was still perceived

source

analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

source

analysis of Nestor’s account of the battle as cast in terms of a chariot race

source

analysis of Nestor’s parallel to Zeus’ status among gods to his status among men. Suggests that Nestor’s apparent “immortality” is a remnant of his possible former mythological status as a god

source

comment on and reasons for Nestor’s disbelief at his own story

source

analysis of the parallels and contrasts between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

example of the contrast between Achilles’ bíē and the greater age and superior counsel of Patroclus. Compare to Il. XIX.216

source

analysis of Patroclus and Achilles, and Nestor’s advice to Patroclus, in terms of the twin myth (Patroclus either to bring Achilles back to fighting/back to life, or to take his place)

source

analysis of Patroclus and Achilles, and Nestor’s advice to Patroclus, in terms of the twin myth (Patroclus either to bring Achilles back to fighting/back to life, or to take his place)

source

analysis of the parallels and contrasts between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

analysis of Patroclus and Achilles, and Nestor’s advice to Patroclus, in terms of the twin myth (Patroclus either to bring Achilles back to fighting/back to life, or to take his place)

source

example of laos as referring to one’s own in contexts where there is a contrast between “leader(s)” and those who “follow”

source

in the context of analyzing the parallels and contrast between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

analysis of the (parallels and) contrasts between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth)

source

analysis of the (parallels and) contrasts between Nestor and Patroclus (and the twin myth), here, Patroclus’ pity

source
Gregory Nagy

Rhapsody 11 marks the point in the Iliad where Patroklos is drawn into a fatal pattern of impersonating Achilles. Pivotal is the story that Patroklos hears from the old hero Nestor. My comments here on Iliad 11 work around Nestor’s story at I.11.670–803 as analyzed in the book Hippota Nestor by Douglas Frame, 2009:105–130.

draft js image errorNestor and his sons sacrifice to Poseidon. Attic red-figure calyx-krater, ca. 400–380 BCE. © Marie-Lan Nguyen / Wikimedia Commons, via Wikimedia Commons.

source

This noun īs ‘force, violence, strength’ is a synonym of the noun biē.

source

This noun īs ‘force, violence, strength’ is a synonym of the noun biē.

source

In the course of this lengthy narrative, I.11.671-761, the idea of a ‘gate’ of the Sun is linked with Nestor’s Pylos and with the underworldly Pylos of I.05.397. See also the comment at I.05.395–404.

source

See the comment on I.02.658.

source

example of vestigial traces of -˘˘-˘˘-˘/--˘˘-˘˘-- (where / means that the ˘ before it and the - after it should be on top of each other, meaning that syllable could be either long or short)

source

Homeric references to four-horse chariot teams are rare, indicative of Athenian agenda. See the comments on I.05.263–273 and I.08.185.

source

At later points, at O.12.132 and at O.23.246, the links that connect phaethōn ‘shining’ as epithet of Helios with the names Phaethōn and Phaethousa will be examined.

source

To ‘strive to be the best always’, that was the instruction of Peleus to his son Achilles, and this instruction is relevant to the title ‘best of the Achaeans’ as claimed by the figure of Achilles.

source

Conventionally, the heroic superiority of Achilles is measured in terms of his biē ‘force, violence, strength’. See the comment on I.09.346–352.

source

Here as well as earlier at I.08.220–227 and at I.11.005–016, also later at I.14.027–036, the headquarters of the Achaeans are said to be located at the same place where the ship of Odysseus is beached, on the shores of the south end of the bay of the Hellespont. It is here, next to the beached ship of Odysseus, that the Achaeans of the Iliad hold their assemblies and perform their sacrifices, as we see from the wording at I.11.807–808. Such a centerpoint, then, is not only topographical: it is also political—even sacral. And it is from here that the king Agamemnon shouts his speech of royal authority, as we saw at I.08.220–227. Likewise, it is from here that the goddess Eris ‘Strife’, who is the spirit of war personified, shouts at the Achaeans with her voice of divine authority at I.11.005–014, echoed by Agamemnon’s voice of royal authority at I.11.015–016. The location of this political and sacral centerpoint is the naustathmon ‘ship-station’ of the Achaeans according to Strabo 13.1.31–32 C595 (quoted at HPC 153) and 13.1.36 C598 (quoted at HPC 154), who equates such a station with something called the limēn ‘harbor’of the Achaeans’. But such a notion of ‘harbor’ is misleading from the standpoint of the Iliad. As noted in the comment on I.08.220–227, the ships of the Achaeans were not floating at anchor in the bay of the Hellespont: rather, they were beached along the shores of the bay.

source
Leonard Muellner

switch from Dii patri to Dii t’alloisin te theoisin attested with a variation of the || (short OR two shorts) euxamenos Dii patri # formula which uses epeukhesthai instead of eukhesthai and transformation of the formula with present tense of eukhesthai in I.08.526, in the context of analyzing Allen’s text at I.08.526 vs. Zenodotus’s version of the verse

source

in a list of examples of eukhesthai + dative (formulas which report prayers)

source

analysis of the formulas with the three places where eukhesthai + dative has the shape eukh ˘ ˘ – [=short short long], as in this verse

source

analysis of the application of isos Arēi (and variants) to heroes in their aristeiai and of the use of isos aellēi/lailapi in these contexts

source

example of the freedom of eukhetaasthai as against the restrictions of eukhesthai (used with ‘man’ in dative)

source
Richard Martin

The advice that Patroklos is to deliver to Achilles is designated a pukinon epos: "tell him well a pukinon epos and instruct and give him directions" (11.788-89). This kind of discourse is language one can personally "keep"—or fail to keep, as is the case when Patroklos forgets Achilles' personal warning (16.686-87): "If he had guarded the epos of the son of Peleus, he would have fled the evil fate of black death." (Martin 1993:35).

source

Even in his long reminiscence during his final muthos of command, Nestor depicts himself as an authority (11.781-90). He frames the speech to Patroklos on the basis of his own biography, and within the speech alludes to a previous rhetorical success—the original recruitment of Patroklos and Achilles for the war. Although Odysseus was also present in Phthia that day, it was Nestor (so he says) who "began the muthos" (11.781). The formulaic variation here, to the rarer use of the singular of the word for speech, might imply that Nestor's performance did not face any counter-speeches. Nestor selects the one detail from the alleged "instructions" of Peleus that contrasts most with his own recapitulation of advice by Patroklos' father, suggesting that the companion of Achilles should instruct and guide him (11.786-90). The older man uses his muthos to praise Patroklos, thereby constructing an image of the role he is supposed to play. As with Zeus' speeches to Hera and Thetis in Book 24, Homer has supplied enough detail to make an audience appreciate the possibilities for fictional presentation within authoritative speechmaking (Martin 1993:61-62).

For the broader analysis of Nestor as master of the memory genre, see the comment on Iliad 1.259-274.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

source

Nestor's recollection of his initiatory raid on Elis (11.677-83, 696-705) provides the clearest example of the "raiding boast" genre in the Iliad, against which Achilles' speech in Book 9 can be measured. The raiding boast genre features several topics: who took what from whom; what were the precise gains; what division of spoils was made later. Nestor recounts the circumstances of his people's raid, justifying it by citing the abuses suffered by the Pylians (hēmeas hubrizontes, 11.695); his father took part of the spoils from the raid to recompense himself (heileto, exelet', 697, 704) and gave out the rest for equal distribution (705-6). Achilles mentions all these details, but in his view a raid has been carried out against himself: Agamemnon has taken advantage (ephubrizōn, 9.368), like the men of Elis he has selected certain things (9.335-36) and distributed the rest unequally (9.333-34). In sum, Achilles uses the conventions normal for speaking about one's relations with outsiders when he talks about his own commander. A familiar speech genre is redeployed for new effect, and Achilles appears as a skillful manipulator of the conventional, a rhetorician (Martin 1993:172-73).

For the broader analysis of Achilles' speech, see the comment on Iliad 9.307-429.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

source