Iliad 11.780

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Iliad. . Germany. 2014.

Sponsored by University of Leipzig.

Funding provided by European Social Fund Saxony.

Current edition Experimental

English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) (English) (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 11.780 focus
αὐτὰρ ἐπεὶ τάρπημεν ἐδητύος ἠδὲ ποτῆτος,
780
ἦρχον ἐγὼ μύθοιο κελεύων ὔμμʼ ἅμʼ ἕπεσθαι·
σφὼ δὲ μάλʼ ἠθέλετον, τὼ δʼ ἄμφω πόλλʼ ἐπέτελλον.
Πηλεὺς μὲν ᾧ παιδὶ γέρων ἐπέτελλʼ Ἀχιλῆϊ
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν καὶ ὑπείροχον ἔμμεναι ἄλλων·
σοὶ δʼ αὖθʼ ὧδʼ ἐπέτελλε Μενοίτιος Ἄκτορος υἱός·
785
τέκνον ἐμὸν γενεῇ μὲν ὑπέρτερός ἐστιν Ἀχιλλεύς,
πρεσβύτερος δὲ σύ ἐσσι· βίῃ δʼ ὅ γε πολλὸν ἀμείνων.
ἀλλʼ εὖ οἱ φάσθαι πυκινὸν ἔπος ἠδʼ ὑποθέσθαι
καί οἱ σημαίνειν· ὃ δὲ πείσεται εἰς ἀγαθόν περ.
ὣς ἐπέτελλʼ ὃ γέρων, σὺ δὲ λήθεαι· ἀλλʼ ἔτι καὶ νῦν
790
ταῦτʼ εἴποις Ἀχιλῆϊ δαΐφρονι αἴ κε πίθηται.
τίς δʼ οἶδʼ εἴ κέν οἱ σὺν δαίμονι θυμὸν ὀρίναις
παρειπών; ἀγαθὴ δὲ παραίφασίς ἐστιν ἑταίρου.
εἰ δέ τινα φρεσὶν ᾗσι θεοπροπίην ἀλεείνει
καί τινά οἱ πὰρ Ζηνὸς ἐπέφραδε πότνια μήτηρ,
795
ἀλλὰ σέ περ προέτω, ἅμα δʼ ἄλλος λαὸς ἑπέσθω
Μυρμιδόνων, αἴ κέν τι φόως Δαναοῖσι γένηαι·
καί τοι τεύχεα καλὰ δότω πόλεμον δὲ φέρεσθαι,
αἴ κέ σε τῷ εἴσκοντες ἀπόσχωνται πολέμοιο
Τρῶες, ἀναπνεύσωσι δʼ ἀρήϊοι υἷες Ἀχαιῶν
800
τειρόμενοι· ὀλίγη δέ τʼ ἀνάπνευσις πολέμοιο.
ῥεῖα δέ κʼ ἀκμῆτες κεκμηότας ἄνδρας ἀϋτῇ
ὤσαισθε προτὶ ἄστυ νεῶν ἄπο καὶ κλισιάων.
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 11.780 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 11.823 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 11.780 focus
When we had satisfied ourselves with meat and drink, [780] I said my say and urged both of you to join us. You were ready enough to do so, and the two old men charged you much and strongly. Old Peleus bade his son Achilles fight ever among the foremost and outcompete his peers, while Menoitios, the son of Aktor, spoke thus to you: [785] ‘My son,’ said he, ‘Achilles is of nobler birth than you are. 787 You are older; but he is much better in force [ bíē]. Counsel him wisely, guide him in the right way, and he will follow you to his own profit.’ Thus did your father charge you, but you have forgotten; nevertheless, even [790] now, say all this to high-spirited Achilles if he will listen to you. Who knows but with the help of a superhuman force [ daimōn] you may talk him over, for it is good to take a friend’s advice. If, however, he is fearful about some oracle, or if his mother has told him something from Zeus, [795] then let him send you, and let the rest of the Myrmidons follow with you, if perchance you may bring light and saving to the Danaans. And let him send you into battle clad in his own armor, that the Trojans may mistake you for him and leave off fighting; the sons of the Achaeans may thus have time to get their breath, [800] for they are hard pressed and there is little breathing time in battle. You, who are fresh, might easily drive a tired enemy back to his walls and away from the tents and ships.”
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 11.780 focus
Then, having feasted, I began discourse,
Exhorting you to join us. Both of you
At once consented, and your fathers gave
Their admonitions. Aged Peleus charged
955
His son Achilles to excel the rest
In valor, while Menœtius, in his turn,
The son of Actor, gave thee this command: -
"'My son, Achilles is the nobler born,
But thou art elder. He surpasses thee
960
By far in warlike might, but thou must prompt
His mind with prudent counsels; thou must warn
And guide him; he will hearken to thy words
Meant for his good.' The old man charged thee thus.
Thou hast forgotten it. Yet speak thou now
965
To Peleus' warlike son; and haply he
May heed thy counsels. Thou perchance may'st bend
His will-who knows? - by thy persuasive words;
For wholesome are the warnings of a friend.
Yet, if he shrink from some predicted doom,
970
Or if his goddess-mother have revealed
Aught of Jove's counsels to him, then, at least
Let him send thee to war, and let his troop
Of Myrmidons go with thee, so that thou
May'st carry succor to the Greeks. Yet more, —
975
Let him permit thee in the field to wear
His glorious armor, that the Trojan host,
Beholding thee so like to him, may shun
The combat, and the warlike sons of Greece,
Hard-pressed, may breathe again, and find at length
980
A respite from the conflict. Ye, who still
Are fresh and vigorous, shall assault and drive
Townward the weary foe from camp and fleet."
He spake. The spirit of the youth took fire,
And instantly he hastened toward the ships
985
Of Peleus' son. But when he came where lay
The galleys of Ulysses the divine,
Where was the assembly-place and judgment-seat,
And where the altars of the immortals stood,
Evæmon's noble son, Eurypylus,
990
Met him as from the battle-field he came
Halting, and with an arrow in his thigh.
The sweat ran down his shoulders and his brow,
And the black blood was oozing from his wound,
Yet was his spirit untamed. The gallant youth,
995
Son of Menœtius, saw with grief, and said: -
"Unhappy chiefs and princes of the Greeks!
Are ye then doomed to feast with your fair limbs
The famished dogs of Ilium, far away
From friends and country? Tell me, child of Jove,
1000
Gallant Eurypylus, will yet the Greeks
Withstand the mighty Hector, or give way
And perish, overtaken by his spear?"
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 11.780 focus
'Social we sit, and share the genial rites.
'We then explain'd the cause on which we came,
'Urg'd you to arms, and found you fierce for fame.
'Your ancient fathers generous precepts gave:
'Peleus said only this: "My son! be brave,"
915
'Menoetius thus: "Though great Achilles shine
'"In strength superior, and of race divine,
'"Yet cooler thoughts thy elder years attend;
'"Let thy just counsels aid, and rule thy friend."'
'Thus spoke your father at Thessalia's court;
920
'Words now forgot, though now of vast import.
'Ah! try the utmost that a friend can say,
'Such gentle force the fiercest minds obey;
'Some favouring god Achilles' heart may move;
'Though deaf to glory, he may yield to love.
925
'If some dire oracle his breast alarm,
'If aught from heaven withhold his saving arm;
'Some beam of comfort yet on Greece may shine,
'If thou but lead the Myrmidonian line;
'Clad in Achilles' arms, if thou appear,
930
'Proud Troy may tremble, and desist from war!
'Press'd by fresh forces, her o'erlabour'd train
'Shall seek their walls, and Greece respire again.'
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 11.780 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 11.780 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 11 focus

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

Nestor’s story in this passage in the Iliad as his myth

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citation of Nestor’s traditional story

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Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

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locations/geography in Nestor’s story (expansion)

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Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

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Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story

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Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story, and his omission of the two final lines of the second passage (I.11.735-736)

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Cantieni’s take on what the interpolation in Nestor’s story was and his restoration of the older form of the story, and his omission of the two final lines of the second passage (I.11.735-736)

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passages in Nestor’s story that Cantieni argued are later expansions

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analysis of the battle and the role of horses in Nestor’s myth (Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota)

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Augeias’ and his daughter Agamede’s small role in Nestor’s story

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analysis of Nestor’s relationship to the Epeian king, Augeías, whose name is related to the noun augḗ, which suggests the “radiance” of the sun. Indicates that Augeías was originally connected with the sun. His daughter, Agamḗde, is another name for Mḗdeia, who in later tradition was considered to be the granddaughter of Helios. By capturing the Epeian herds, Nestor, in effect, captures the cattle of the sun

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analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

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analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

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the creation of realistic distances in the expansion of Nestor’s story (locating Pylos in Triphylia, using Alpheios to break up the action to realistic stages)

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comparison of the geography in I.02.617 with that in this verse (esp. regarding Alēsion in the two passages)

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analysis of the location of the Olenian Rock and other features of the geography in the passage and I.2

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Bölte’s argument for the location of the landmarks in this verse to make it plausible that Nestor and the Pylians would have been able to cover it in a one day rout of the Epeians

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the creation of realistic distances in the expansion of Nestor’s story (locating Pylos in Triphylia, using Alpheios to break up the action to realistic stages) – Cantieni’s effect of the third expansion of Nestor’s story (these verses)

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analysis of Nestor as a possible type of Nehélāwos, “he who brings the war-folk safely home.” However, argues that name’s relation to nóos “indicates that he is deeply traditional figure, whose roots go back to a time when the relation between nóos and néomai was still perceived

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analysis of the battle and Nestor’s earning his epithet hippota

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analysis of Nestor’s account of the battle as cast in terms of a chariot race

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analysis of Nestor’s parallel to Zeus’ status among gods to his status among men. Suggests that Nestor’s apparent “immortality” is a remnant of his possible former mythological status as a god

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Gregory Nagy

Rhapsody 11 marks the point in the Iliad where Patroklos is drawn into a fatal pattern of impersonating Achilles. Pivotal is the story that Patroklos hears from the old hero Nestor. My comments here on Iliad 11 work around Nestor’s story at I.11.670–803 as analyzed in the book Hippota Nestor by Douglas Frame, 2009:105–130.

draft js image errorNestor and his sons sacrifice to Poseidon. Attic red-figure calyx-krater, ca. 400–380 BCE. © Marie-Lan Nguyen / Wikimedia Commons, via Wikimedia Commons.

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In the course of this lengthy narrative, I.11.671-761, the idea of a ‘gate’ of the Sun is linked with Nestor’s Pylos and with the underworldly Pylos of I.05.397. See also the comment at I.05.395–404.

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At later points, at O.12.132 and at O.23.246, the links that connect phaethōn ‘shining’ as epithet of Helios with the names Phaethōn and Phaethousa will be examined.

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Leonard Muellner

switch from Dii patri to Dii t’alloisin te theoisin attested with a variation of the || (short OR two shorts) euxamenos Dii patri # formula which uses epeukhesthai instead of eukhesthai and transformation of the formula with present tense of eukhesthai in I.08.526, in the context of analyzing Allen’s text at I.08.526 vs. Zenodotus’s version of the verse

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in a list of examples of eukhesthai + dative (formulas which report prayers)

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analysis of the formulas with the three places where eukhesthai + dative has the shape eukh ˘ ˘ – [=short short long], as in this verse

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analysis of the application of isos Arēi (and variants) to heroes in their aristeiai and of the use of isos aellēi/lailapi in these contexts

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example of the freedom of eukhetaasthai as against the restrictions of eukhesthai (used with ‘man’ in dative)

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