Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Thomas Hobbes (Translator), 6.22.1

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[1] "Wherefore I am of opinion that we ought to take with us many men of arms of our own, of our confederates, and of our subjects; and also out of Peloponnesus as many as we can get, either for love or money; and also many archers and slingers, whereby to resist their cavalry; and much spare shipping, for the more easy bringing in of provision. Also our corn, I mean wheat and barley parched, we must carry with us from hence in ships; and bakers from the mills, hired and made to work by turns, that the army, if it chance to be weatherbound, may not be in want of victual. For being so great, it will not be for every city to receive it. And so for all things else, we must as much as we can provide them ourselves and not rely on others. Above all, we must take hence as much money as we can; for as for that which is said to be ready at Egesta, think it ready in words, but not in deeds.

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Thomas Hobbes (Translator). London. 1843.

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The History of the Grecian War (English) (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.)

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Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.22.1 focus

[1] ὁπλίτας τε οὖν πολλούς μοι δοκεῖ χρῆναι ἡμᾶς ἄγειν καὶ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν καὶ τῶν ξυμμάχων, τῶν τε ὑπηκόων καὶ ἤν τινα ἐκ Πελοποννήσου δυνώμεθα ἢ πεῖσαι ἢ μισθῷ προσαγαγέσθαι, καὶ τοξότας πολλοὺς καὶ σφενδονήτας, ὅπως πρὸς τὸ ἐκείνων ἱππικὸν ἀντέχωσι, ναυσί τε καὶ πολὺ περιεῖναι, ἵνα καὶ τὰ ἐπιτήδεια ῥᾷον ἐσκομιζώμεθα, τὸν δὲ καὶ αὐτόθεν σῖτον ἐν ὁλκάσι, πυροὺς καὶ πεφρυγμένας κριθάς, ἄγειν, καὶ σιτοποιοὺς ἐκ τῶν μυλώνων πρὸς μέρος ἠναγκασμένους ἐμμίσθους, ἵνα, ἤν που ὑπὸ ἀπλοίας ἀπολαμβανώμεθα, ἔχῃ ἡ στρατιὰ τὰ ἐπιτήδεια (πολλὴ γὰρ οὖσα οὐ πάσης ἔσται πόλεως ὑποδέξασθαι), τά τε ἄλλα ὅσον δυνατὸν ἑτοιμάσασθαι, καὶ μὴ ἐπὶ ἑτέροις γίγνεσθαι, μάλιστα δὲ χρήματα αὐτόθεν ὡς πλεῖστα ἔχειν. τὰ δὲ παρ’ Ἐγεσταίων, ἃ λέγεται ἐκεῖ ἑτοῖμα, νομίσατε καὶ λόγῳ ἂν μάλιστα ἑτοῖμα εἶναι.

Translations (9)

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.22.1 focus

[1] I think, therefore, that we ought to take great numbers of heavy infantry, both from Athens and from our allies, and not merely from our subjects, but also any we may be able to get for love or for money in Peloponnese , and great numbers also of archers and slingers, to make head against the Sicilian horse. Meanwhile we must have an overwhelming superiority at sea, to enable us the more easily to carry in what we want; and we must take our own corn in merchant vessels, that is to say, wheat and parched barley, and bakers from the mills compelled to serve for pay in the proper proportion; in order that in case of our being weather-bound the armament may not want provisions, as it is not every city that will be able to entertain numbers like ours. We must also provide ourselves with everything else as far as we can, so as not to be dependent upon others; and above all we must take with us from home as much money as possible, as the sums talked of as ready at Egesta are readier, you may be sure, in talk than in any other way.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 6.22 focus

„Ich halte also dafür, daß wir viele Schwerbewaffnete
mitnehmen müssen, sowohl von unsern eigenen Bürgern, als von den
Bundesgenossen und Unterthanen, und wo möglich auch Leute aus
dem Peloponnes^) durch Ueberredung oder Sold gewinnen sollten.
Auch Bogenschützen und Schleuderer brauchen wir in großer Zahl,
um sie der-Reiterei jener entgegenzustellen. Die Schiffszahl muß nun
gar sehr groß sein, damit wir alles Nöthige leichter hinschaffen können,
und von hier müssen wir Getreide auf Lastschiffen mitnehmen, Weizen
und geröstete Gerste und dazu Mahl- und Backknechte, die aus den
Mühlen nach Verhältniß der Sklavenzahl gegen Entgeld zwangsweise
zu nehmen find^), damit unser Heer die nöthigen Lebensmittel habe,
wenn wir irgendwo in unserer Fahrt aufgehalten werden sollten.
Denn das Heer wird zahlreich, und nicht jede Stadt im Stande sein,
es aufzunehmen. Auch im Uebrigen müssen wir so viel möglich Alles
selbst herbeischaffen und uns nicht auf Andere verlassen, vor allen
Dingen aber möglichst viel Geld von hier mitnehmen. Denn glaubt
nur, daß die Summen, welche bei den Egestanern für uns bereit
liegen sollen, wohl meist nur aus dem Papier in Bereitschaft tsehen."

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 6.22 focus

„Meiner Ansicht nach also müssen wir viel schweres Fuß
volk mitnehmen, sowohl aus Athen selbst wie aus den Ländern
unserer Bundesgenossen und Untertanen und was wir davon
aus dem Peloponnes an Freiwilligen und Söldnern bekommen
können, aber auch zahlreiche Bogenschützen und Schleuderer,
um die feindliche Reiterei in Schach zu halten. Weiter müssen
wir eine sehr überlegene Flotte haben, schon der ungehinderten
Zufuhr der Lebensmittel wegen, auch von hier auf Lastschiffen
Getreide, Weizen und geröstete Gerste, sowie eine Anzahl aus
den Mühten nach Verhältnis zwangsweise ausgehobener be
zahlter Bäcker mitnehmen, damit es in Zeiten, wo die Schiff-
fahrt ruht, nicht an Lebensmitteln für das Heer fehlt. Denn
bei der Menge der Truppen wird nicht jede Stadt imstande
sein, sie zu verpflegen. Überhaupt müssen wir uns mit allem
Nötigen möglichst versehen und uns nicht auf andere ver
lassen, vor allen Dingen aber einen Sack voll Geld mit
nehmen. Was davon in Egesta zu haben sein soll, ist ver-
mutlich Fabel.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.22 focus

XXII. « Il faut donc, à mon avis, emmener un grand nombre d’hoplites, levés chez nous, chez nos alliés, chez nos sujets, même dans le Péloponnèse, si nous pouvons en gagner quelques-uns par la persuasion ou l’appât d’une solde¹;il faut aussi beaucoup d’archers et de frondeurs pour tenir tête à leur cavalerie; il faut des vaisseaux en grand nombre pour la facilité des transports; il faudra encore emporter d’ici des vivres sur des bâtiments de charge, du froment et de l’orge grillée, enrôler de force et solder un certain nombre de boulangers tirés proportionnellement de chaque moulin, afin que, si le mauvais temps nous retient quelque part, l’armée ne manque pas du nécessaire; car toutes les villes ne seront pas en état de recevoir une armée si nombreuse. Enfin il nous faut, autant que possible, pourvoir à tout le reste, et ne pas être à la discrétion d’autrui; surtout nous aurons à emporter d’ici le plus d’argent que nous pourrons; car, croyez-moi, les trésors des Égestains, qu’on dit tout prêts là-bas, sont prêts surtout en paroles.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 6.22 focus

« J’estime donc que nous devons emmener un très-grand nombre d’boplites, levés chez nous, chez nos alliés, chez nos sujets, même dans le Péloponèse, si nous pouvons en attirer par la persuasion ou par l’appât du gain. Il faut aussi beaucoup d’archers et de frondeurs, pour les opposer à la cavalerie ennemie: Il faut une flotte formidable pour assurer nos communications. Il faut des transports .pour embarquer des provisions de bouche, du froment, de l’orge torréfiée, avec des meuniers mis en réquisition moyennant salaire et tirés proportfonnellement des moulins, afin que l’armée, forcée de relâcher, ne manque pas de subsistances ; car nombreuse comme elle sera, toutes les villes ne pourront pas la recevoir. En un mot, il nous faut faire tous les préparatifs imaginables, pour ne pas être à la merci des étrangers ; surtout emporter d’ici beaucoup d'argent; car pour celui qu'on assure être prêt à Égeste, dites-vous bien qu’il ne l’est qu’en paroles.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.22.1 focus

[1] "And so it seems to me that we ought to take hoplites in large numbers, both of our own and of our allies, and from our subjects, as well as any from the Peloponnesus that we can attract by pay or persuade; many bowmen, and also slingers, in order that they may withstand the cavalry of the enemy. And in ships we must have a decided superiority, in order that we may bring in our supplies more easily. And we must also take with us in merchantmen the grain in our stores here, wheat and parched barley, together with bakers requisitioned for pay from the mills in proportion to their size, in order that, if perchance we be detained by stress of weather, the army may have supplies. For the force will be large, and it will not be every city that can receive it. And all other things so far as possible we must get ready for ourselves, and not come to be at the mercy of the Siceliots; but we must especially have from here as much money as possible; for as to that of the Egestaeans, which is reported to be ready there, you may assume that it is indeed chiefly by report that it will ever be ready.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.22.1 focus

[1] "I think therefore that we ought to take many heavyarmed, both of our own and of our allies, whether those who are subject to us, or any in the Peloponnese that we may be able either to prevail upon by argument, or to take into our pay; many bowmen also and slingers, to offer resistance to the Sicilian horse; and that in ships we should have a very decided superiority, in order that we may the more easily bring in what is necessary: while we ¹ take our corn from home also in merchant vessels, namely, wheat and parched barley, with bakers from the mills, compelled, in proportion to their numbers, to serve for pay; that should we any where be detained by stress of weather, the force may have provisions; (for so numerous as it is, it will not be one for every city to receive.) All other things too we must provide, as far as we can, and not depend upon others; but, most of all, we must take from home as much money as possible. For as for that of the Segestans, which is asserted to be there in readiness, believe that it is in the way of assertion, more than in any other way, that it will be ready.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.22.1 focus

[1] « Ego igifiir censeo, oportere nobiscum ducere multos gravis armaturae milites quum ex nostris civibus tum ex sociis, tum etiam ex iis, qui nostro imperio parent, et si quem e Peloponneso aut verbis aut mercede nobis adjungere possumus, et praeterea multos sagittarios et funditores , ut illorum equitatui resistant; navium vero numen» etiam longe nos superiores esse, ut res ad victum necessarias illuc facilius importemus, et frumentum etiam, quod hic paratum est, triticum et hordeum tostum, hinc navibus onerariis eo convehere, et pistores ex pistrinis quibusque pro rata parte, necessitate adhibita, mercede conductos, ut si quo in loco tempestatibus intercepti teneamur, exercitus res ad victum necessarias lialieat (qui quum ingens sit, eum non quaelibet civitas excipere poterit), ceterasque res pro viribus praeparare, neque nostrae salutis praesidium in aliorum auxilio collocare, inprimis vero pecuniam quam plurimam hinc afferre. Nam quae ab Egestaeis praedicatur illic in promptu esse, eam verbo tenus in promptu foro putetis.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.22 focus

et II perchè pare che dobbiamo traghettarvi molté milizie gravi delle nostre, degli alleati, dei Vassalli (é potendo, cavarne alcune dal Peloponneso o colle persuasioni o col soldo ) e molti arcieri e frombolici per fai4 testa alla loro cavalleria , e molto maggior numero di navi per trasportare più facilmente i viveri, e condurre di qua sulle barche da carico grano e orzo tostato , e panattieri salariati tolti ripartitamente dai mulini, acciocché, ovunque ci troviamo sorpresi dà qualche fortuna di mare , il bisognevole non manchi all’armata, alla quale essendo si grande non potrà ogni città dar ricovero. Insomma bisogna non fidarsi agli altri, e provvedersi per quanto si può d’ogni altra cosa, e soprattutto portar di qua moltissimo denaro; perchè quel degli Egestei che si dice esser colà pronto, siate certi che è pronto piii che altro in parole.

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

τῶν χειμερινῶν —by no means a gloss on τεσσάρων, as some have supposed, but absolutely necessary; for without them the statement made by N. would be a manifest absurdity. With them the statement is a debater's argument of a quibbling character.

ὁπλίτας τε —answered by καὶ τοξότας.

ξυμμάχων —these are divided into (1) τῶν ὑπηκόων, (2) ἤν τινα κτλ.

πεῖσαι —the Argives and Mantineans joined thus. See on c. 29, 3 n. The Areadians joined μισθῷ, being in the habit of serving as mercenaries ( VII. 57 ).

ναυσί τε — τε adds the third particular, as often in Thuc.

τὸν δέ —Stahl renders ‘and take other supplies from home,’ as though we had above σῖτον τὸν μὲν ἐσκομίζεσθαι. This rendering accounts satisfactorily for the order of καὶ αὐτόθεν, which belongs to ἄγειν, and appears to be right. Stahl quotes several parallels. ἐπιτήδεια and σῖτον mean the same thing; and ναυσί, ships in general, is contrasted with ἐν ὁλκάσι.

πρὸς μέρος —with ἐκ τῶν μυλώνων, i.e. in proportion to the number of bakers in the several mills These slaves are to be requisitioned by the state ( ἠναγκασμένοι); but, as they belong to private owners, they are to receive pay for their services, like state slaves.

πολλὴ γὰρ οὖσα —with the personal construction used here Fr. Muller well compares II. 36 αὐτὰ οὐκ ἂν ἀπρεπῆ εἶναι λεχθῆναι. Cf. Soph. O.T. 393 τό γ’ αἴνιγμ’ οὐχὶ τοὐπιόντος ἦν | ἀνδρὸς διειπεῖν.

τὰ παρ’ Ἐ. . . ἑτοῖμα εἶναι —as in I. 69 τὰ παρ’ ὑμῶν ἀξίως προαπαντῆσαι. ‘The support of Segesta’ is that promised in c. 8, 2.

λέγεται —the passive is used both personally and impersonally, and regularly with infiu.

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.22.1

Thomas Hobbes (Translator)

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