Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 2.64.1

Thomas Hobbes (Translator)

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History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Thomas Hobbes (Translator). London. 1843.

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The History of the Grecian War (English) (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.)

Editions (1)
Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 2.64.1 focus
Translations (10)
History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 2.64.1 focus
Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 2.64 focus
Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 2.64 focus
Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 2.64 focus
Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 2.64 focus
History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 2.64.1 focus
History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 2.64.1 focus
Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 2.64.1 focus
Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides First1KGreek (Thucydides. Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides. Gürsching, Heinrich, translator. Augsburg: Wirth, 1856.) — 2.64.1 focus
La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 2.64 focus

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides Book 2 (Thucydides, Book II. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1891.) focus

Δῑ ὀργῆς —c. 13, 2.

εἰκὸς ἦν —sc. δρᾶσαι. Cf. c. 11, 8.

πρᾶγμα ... γεγενημένον —for the change to a neut. expression cf. c. 47, 3. πρᾶγμα is in apposition to the sentence generally, as in Andoc. 1, 39 τοῦθ’ ὑπέθετο, δεινότατον πρᾶγμα οἶμαι. ἐλπίδος—cf. c. 11, 6, 85, 4, 102, 3.

κρεῖσσον —cf. c. 41, 3.

οἶδ’ ὅτι —cf. εὖ οἶδ’ ὅτι, and δῆλον ὅτι. μέρος τι —‘considerably.’ [ τι ] εὖ πράξητε —either εὖ ποιεῖν, εὖ πράττειν, etc., or ἀγαθόν τι ποιεῖν, ἀγαθόν τι πράττειν, etc., are the phrases. For the latter, cf. Isocr. 2, 20 , Aristoph. Eccles. 108 .

ἀναθήσετε —‘you intend to attribute it to me.’ So the fut. indic. with εἰ may follow optat. with ἄν, and even alternate with εἰ and optat., as Andoc. 1, 30 δεινὸν ἂν εἴη, εἰ ὲμοὶ ὀργίζοισθε καὶ τὴν διαβολὴν ... κρείττω τῆς ἀληθείας ἡγήσεσθε.

Φἑρειν τε —another reason why their indignation is unmerited is that the plague is sent by a higher power.

τὰ δαιμόνια —this phrase, for τὰ τῆς τύχης, only occurs here, and, as Cl. says, it is probably borrowed from the language of philosophers. Cf. θεῖος, contrasted with ἀνθρώπινος, in Plato; also Andoc. 1, 139 κίνδυνοι θεῖοι) ( κ. ἀνθρώπινοι. ἀναγκαίως —‘with resignation.’ The inevitable should be endured, not argued over.

τά τε ἀπὸ —there is chiasmus with I above; οἱ ὲναντίοι, ἡ νόσος, τὰ δαιμόνια, τὰ ἀπὸ τῶν π. ἐν ἔθει ἦν— ‘was the habit of.’

ἐν ὑμῖν —‘by your act.’ Cf. c. 35 , 1.

κωλυθῇ —‘let it not be impeded,’ i.e. ‘let not your action check it.’

Διὰ τὸ —belongs to εἴκειν and ἀνηλωκέναι. (The Schol., who makes ἀνηλωκέναι depend on γνῶτε, has the honour of having misled Shil.)

πλεῖστα δὲ —‘has never yielded ..., but has sacrificed.’

μεγίστην δὴ —antithesis to ὄνομα μέγιστον. Notice the frequent use of superlatives, esp. μέγιστος and πλεῖστος. Cf. c. 11, 1.

ἢν καὶ νῦν —‘even if, in our present condition ( i.e. in spite of our present power), we should give way at all. Pericles admits the possibility of a decline of the empire.’

καὶ ἐλασσοῦσθαι —‘to decay as well (as to grow).’

καταλελείψεται —permanent result in fut. M. T. 78.

Ἑλλήνων τε ὅτι —epexegesis of ἧς = δυνάμεως. Cf. Plat. Rep. v. p. 469 B Ἕλληνας Ἑλληνίδας πόλεις ἀνδραποδίζεσθαι. ὅτι—put late, because of the emphasis on Ἑλλήνων. πολέμοις—temporal. Cf. c. 13, 9.

καθ’ ἑκάστους —depends, as though it were one word, on πρός. τοῖς πᾶσιν —c. 11, 6.

Καίτοι —‘now it is true that,’ making an admission that increase of power does not increase the number of friends. The objection is answered in 5 below. (Only Bäumlein and Sta. make this clear.)

ἀπράγμων —referring to other states, yet with a hint at οἱ ἀπράγμονες in Athens.

μέμψαιτ’ ἄν — corresponds to the fut. ζηλώσει, φθονήσει. καὶ αὐτὸς —with δρᾶν, ‘he who is ambitious like ourselves.’

ζηλώσει —note the difference between ζῆλος and φθόνος. L. and S. s.v. ζῆλος. εἰ ... κέκτηται —= ὅστις κέκτηται= ὁ κεκτημένος.

Ἐν τῷ παρόντι —‘for a time,’ i.e. until other nations become habituated to it. Cf. c. 41, 2.

ἕτεροι ἑτέρων —c. 51, 1 and 4. Cf. I. 84 διαφέρειν ἄνθρωπον ἀνθρώπου and 3 above; Livy, XXI. 10, 4 ex bellis bella serendo.

ὅστις ... λαμβάνει —= ὁ λαμβάνων. ἐπὶ μεγίστοις—cf. c. 29, 3 ἐπ’ ὠφελίᾳ. ἡ δὲ κ.τ.λ.—there is only one idea in the subject: lit. ‘that which is the splendour of the present remains also the glory of the future in memory for ever,’ by which he means great power, τὰ μέγιστα above. In the present, such power is viewed with dislike, though it is a splendid thing to have; but hatred is short-lived, and in the future will be changed into admiration and respect. Even if this great power decline, it is still remembered. The second member is the more important.

Ἔς τε τὸ μέλλον —there is chiasmus here; παραυτίκα, ἐς τὸ ἔπειτα, ἐς τὸ μέλλον, ἐς τὸ αὐτίκα. προγνόντες—‘providing for future glory and present escape from disgrace, secure both by making an effort now.’

ἐπικηρυκεύεσθε —see c. 1 ἐπεμείγνυντο. Cf. ἐπιδικἀζεσθαι. οἵτινες—with this conclusion, cf. the close of Nicias' speech, VI. 14 τὸ καλῶς ἄρξαι τοῦτ’ εἶναι, ὃς ἂν κ.τ.λ. πρὸς — propter, c. 91, 4.

οὗτοι —c. 58, 3.

καὶ πόλεων καὶ ἰδιωτῶν —sums up the lesson of the whole speech. The interests of the individual cannot be considered apart from those of the community. Cf. Isocr. 3, 51 .