Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Theodor Braun (Translator), 6.9

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„Die heutige Versammlung ist zwar berufen, um über die
Ausrüstung der nach Sizilien bestimmten Flotte zu beschließen.
Ich meine jedoch, wir sollten uns die Sache selbst noch mal
überlegen, ob es nicht besser wäre, die Flotte nicht hin
zuschicken und uns nicht durch einen übereilten Beschluß auf
Wunsch von Leuten, die nicht mal unseres Stammes sind, in
einen so weit aussehenden Krieg für fremde Interessen ein
zulassen. Freilich ist mir dabei ein hohes Amt zugedacht, und
ich bin der letzte, der für sein Leben fürchtet, wiewohl ich
glaube, daß es einem guten Bürger wohl ansteht, auch Leben
und Eigentum zu schätzen; denn schon um seiner selbst willen
wird ihm dann auch das Wohl des Vaterlandes um so mehr
am Herzen liegen. Wie ich früher niemals gegen meine Über
zeugung gesprochen habe, um zu Amt und Würden zu gelangen,
so werde ich das auch heute nicht tun, sondern euch offen und
ehrlich sagen, wie ich die Sache ansehe. Bei eurer Sinnesart
würde es wenig verschlagen, wollte ich euch einfach sagen:
Haltet, was ihr habt, und hütet euch, eure jetzige Macht künftiger
ungewisser Vorteile wegen aufs Spiel zu setzen. Nein, ich
werde euch zeigen, daß ihr im Begriff seid, in ein Wespen
nest zu greifen, und die Herrschaft, die ihr dort zu erlangen
hofft, schwerlich werdet behaupten können.

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Theodor Braun (Translator). Leipzig. 1917.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] ‘ἡ μὲν ἐκκλησία περὶ παρασκευῆς τῆς ἡμετέρας ἥδε ξυνελέγη, καθ’ ὅτι χρὴ ἐς Σικελίαν ἐκπλεῖν· ἐμοὶ μέντοι δοκεῖ καὶ περὶ αὐτοῦ τούτου ἔτι χρῆναι σκέψασθαι, εἰ ἄμεινόν ἐστιν ἐκπέμπειν τὰς ναῦς, καὶ μὴ οὕτω βραχείᾳ βουλῇ περὶ μεγάλων πραγμάτων ἀνδράσιν ἀλλοφύλοις πειθομένους πόλεμον οὐ προσήκοντα ἄρασθαι.

[2] καίτοι ἔγωγε καὶ τιμῶμαι ἐκ τοῦ τοιούτου καὶ ἧσσον ἑτέρων περὶ τῷ ἐμαυτοῦ σώματι ὀρρωδῶ, νομίζων ὁμοίως ἀγαθὸν πολίτην εἶναι ὃς ἂν καὶ τοῦ σώματός τι καὶ τῆς οὐσίας προνοῆται· μάλιστα γὰρ ἂν ὁ τοιοῦτος καὶ τὰ τῆς πόλεως δι’ ἑαυτὸν βούλοιτο ὀρθοῦσθαι. ὅμως δὲ οὔτε ἐν τῷ πρότερον χρόνῳ διὰ τὸ προτιμᾶσθαι εἶπον παρὰ γνώμην οὔτε νῦν, ἀλλὰ ᾗ ἂν γιγνώσκω βέλτιστα, ἐρῶ.

[3] καὶ πρὸς μὲν τοὺς τρόπους τοὺς ὑμετέρους ἀσθενὴς ἄν μου ὁ λόγος εἴη, εἰ τά τε ὑπάρχοντα σῴζειν παραινοίην καὶ μὴ τοῖς ἑτοίμοις περὶ τῶν ἀφανῶν καὶ μελλόντων κινδυνεύειν· ὡς δὲ οὔτε ἐν καιρῷ σπεύδετε οὔτε ῥᾴδιά ἐστι κατασχεῖν ἐφ’ ἃ ὥρμησθε, ταῦτα διδάξω.

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] "Though this assembly was called to deliberate of our preparation and of the manner how to set forth our fleet for Sicily, yet to me it seemeth that we ought rather once again to consult whether it be not better not to send it at all than, upon a short deliberation in so weighty an affair and upon the credit of strangers, to draw upon ourselves an impertinent war.

[2] For my own part, I have honour by it; and for the danger of my person, I esteem it the least of all men (not but that I think him a good member of the commonwealth that hath regard also to his own person and estate; for such a man especially will desire the public to prosper for his own sake): but as I have never spoken heretofore, so nor now will I speak anything that is against my conscience, for gaining to myself a pre-eminence of honour: but that only which I apprehend for the best.

[3] And although I am sure that if I go about to persuade you to preserve what you already hold, and not to hazard things certain for uncertain and future, my words will be too weak to prevail against your humour; yet this I must needs let you know, that neither your haste is seasonable nor your desires easy to be achieved.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] ‘Although this assembly was convened to consider the preparations to be made for sailing to Sicily , I think, notwithstanding, that we have still this question to examine, whether it be better to send out the ships at all, and that we ought not to give so little consideration to a matter of such moment, or let ourselves be persuaded by foreigners into undertaking a war with which we have nothing to do.

[2] And yet, individually, I gain in honour by such a course, and fear as little as other men for my person—not that I think a man need be any the worse citizen for taking some thought for his person and estate; on the contrary, such a man would for his own sake desire the prosperity of his country more than others—nevertheless, as I have never spoken against my convictions to gain honour, I shall not begin to do so now, but shall say what I think best.

[3] Against your character any words of mine would be weak enough; if I were to advise your keeping what you have got and not risking what is actually yours for advantages which are dubious in themselves, and which you may or may not attain. I will, therefore, content myself with showing that your ardour is out of season, and your ambition not easy of accomplishment.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 6.9 focus

¹ „Diese Volksversammlung ist zwar zu dem Zwecke berufen
worden, um über die gArt und Weise der Rüstung zum Seezug nach
Sieilien zu berathen; ich aber bin der Meinung, daß man erst die
Sache selbst noch wohl überlegen solle, ob es nämlich überhaupt
wohlgethan ist, die Flotte dorthin zu senden. Wir sollten nicht nach einer
so kurzen Berathung in Betreff so wichtiger Dinge ohne Weiteres
auf die Reden fremder Männer eingeben und einen Krieg aufnehmen,
der uns Nichts angeht. Ich zwar für meine Person soll dabei durch
eine Ehrenstelle ausgezeichnet werden und dürfte also um mich selbst
weniger zu fürchten haben, obwohl ich indeß der Meinung bin, daß
auch der immer noch ein ebenso guter Bürger ist, wie Andere, der für
seine Person und sein Vermögen einigermaßen besorgt ist 2^ da grade
ein solcher um seiner eigenen Sicherheit willen wünschen muß, daß
der Staat wohlbehalten bleibe. Gleichwohl habe ich weder in früherer
Zeit aus Sucht nach Ehrenstellen jemals etwas gegen meine
Ueberzeugung gesagt, noch auch werde ich es jetzt thun, sondern ich werde
nach bestem Wissen und Gewissen reden. In Anbetracht eurer
Denkart aber dürfte ich von meinen Worten wohl keinen Eindruck erwarten,
wenn ich euch nur auffordern wollte, auf Erhaltung eurer jetzigen
Macht bedacht zu sein und das Gegenwärtige nicht um Unsicheres und
Zukünftiges auf's Spiel zu setzen. Ich will euch darum überzeugen,
daß euer Unternehmungseifer hier ganz zur Unzeit kommt und daß
keineswegs so leicht zu erlangen ist, wonach ihr die Hände ausstreckt."

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.9 focus

IX. « Cette assemblée est convoquée pour délibérer sur les préparatifs de l’expédition de Sicile, maintenant résolue; néanmoins il me semble, à moi, que nous devrions encore revenir sur le fond même de la question et examiner si l’envoi d’une flotte est ce qu’il y a de mieux; si nous n’aurions pas tort, après une délibération aussi précipitée sur des objets de cette importance, de nous laisser entraîner par des étrangers à une guerre qui ne nous touche point. Et pourtant cette expédition est pour moi une source d’honneur; je crains moins que d’autres pour ma propre vie, — ce qui ne veut pas dire qqe je regarde comme un moins bon citoyen celui qui a quelque souci de sa personne et de sa fortune; car celui-là surtout voudra, dans son intérêt même, la prospérité de la république. — Mais n’ayant jamais jusqu’ici parlé contre ma pensée en vue des honneurs, je ne commencerai pas maintenant, et je dirai ce que je crois le meilleur. Avec votre caractère ce serait parler sans fruit que de vous engager à conserver ce que vous possédez et à ne pas risquer ce que vous avez sous la main pour des avantages incertains et à venir; aussi me contenterai-je de vous montrer que votre précipitation est intempestive et qu’il n’est pas aisé d’atteindre le but que vous poursuivez.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 6.9 focus

« Cette assemblée a pour objet les préparatifs de notre expédition de Sicile. Selon moi cependant, il convient de revenir sur le fond même de la question , pour examiner si nous faisons bien, après une courte délibération sur un sujet si grave, d’envoyer nos vaisseaux et de nous lancer , à l’instigation d'étrangers, dans une guerre qui ne nous touche en rien.

« Et pourtant la carrière des armes a été pour moi une source de gloire. Moins que d’autres j’appréhende pour ma personae —non que je nie le patriotisme de celui qui ménage sa vie oa sa fortune; un tel homme, dans son propre intérêt même, recherche la sûreté de l’État ; — mais jamais dans ma vie antérieure l’attrait des honneurs ne m’a porté à trahir ma conscience , et aujourd’hui comme toujours je parlerai selon ma conviction.

« Je sais qu’avec votre caractère j’aurais peu de chance d’être écouté, si je vous exhortais à conserver ce que vous possédez, sans risquer le certain pour rincertam. le réel pour l'imaginaire. Aussi me bornerai-je à vous démontrer que le moment est mal choisi pour cette entreprise, et que le but auquel vous visez n’est pas facile à atteindre.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] "This assembly was convoked with reference to our armament, to consider in what way we should make the expedition to Sicily; to me, however, it seems that we ought to consider yet again this very question, whether it is best to send the ships at all, and that we ought not, on such slight deliberation about matters of great importance, at the instigation of men of alien race, to undertake a war that does not concern us.

[2] And yet from such an enterprise I for my part get honour, and have less dread than others about my life,¹ although I consider that he is quite as good a citizen who takes some forethought for his life and property; for such an one would, for his own sake, be most desirous that the affairs of the city should prosper. But nevertheless neither in the past have I, for the sake of being preferred in honour, spoken contrary to my judgment, nor shall I do so now, but I shall speak just as I deem best.

[3] Against tempers, indeed, like yours my words would be unavailing, if I should exhort you to preserve what you have already and not to hazard present possessions for things that are unseen and in the future; that, however, neither is your haste timely, nor is it easy to attain what you are striving for, this I shall show.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] "This assembly was, it is true, convened to consider the subject of our preparations, namely, in what way we ought to make the expedition to Sicily. My opinion, however, is, that we ought still to consider this very point, whether it be better to send out our ships: and not on such slight deliberation on matters of great moment, at the instigation of aliens, to take upon ourselves a war, with which we have nothing to do.

[2] And yet I, for my own part, receive honour from such a policy, and have less fear than others for my own personal safety: (though I consider that man to be an equally good citizen who takes some forethought both for his person and his property; for such a man would, for his own sake, be most desirous that his country also should prosper:) nevertheless, neither aforetime have I ever spoken contrary to my convictions, for the sake of being honoured above others, nor will I now, but as I think best, so will I speak.

[3] And though against your inclinations my words would be powerless, should I advise you to keep what you have, and not expose your present possessions to danger for things which are uncertain and future; yet that neither are you timely in your haste, nor the objects of your ambition easy to attain, on these points I will give you instruction.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.9.1 focus

[1] « Haec quidem concio de nostra classis apparata est coacta, quonam modo in Siciliam navigare oporteat mihi vero adhuc de hoc ipso etiam consultandum videtur, num satius sit classem emittere, nec tam brevi consultaliooe de rebus magnis, viris alienigenis fide habitabellum suscipiendum, quod ad nos nihil pertineat

[2] Quamquam ego quidem ex hujusmodi re honorem consequor, et meo ip»ius corpori minus quam ceteri metuo, quamvis putans pariter bonum esse dvem, qui et sibi ipsi aliquid et suis fortunis prospicit; hujusmodi enim vir maxime et rempublicam propter se ipsum bene geri volet. · Verum ut nec unquam ante propter honores mihi delatos quicquam aliter, quam sentiebam , dixi, sic ne nunc quidem alia dicam quamque optima esse sentio.

[3] Atque pro ingeniis quidem vestris parum ponderis oratio mea sit habitura, si suadeam, ut et res praesentes conservetis, neve de iis, quae parata sunt, propter ea, quae incerta dubiaque sunt, periditemini; sed neque tempestive vos festinare, neque facile obtineri posse ea, ad qu® contenditis, haec docebo.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.9 focus

« Quest’assemblea, che ha per oggetto i nostri apparecchiamenti, si è qui raccolta , come che bisogui navigare in Sicilia. A me però sembra doversi appunto intorno a ciò discutere ancora se sia meglio o no spedire la flotta, e guardarsi dall’imprendere con si breve consiglio una guerra che non ci appartiene , dando retta a gente estranea in cose rilevantissime. Eppure io in questa spedizione trovo il mio onore, e meno degli altri ho paura della mia vita ; quantunque io stimi cittadino egualmente buono chi provvede al suo corpo e alla sua roba, perciocché questi, anche per riguardo suo, sommamente bramerà prospera la Repubblica. Contuttociò, non avendo mai nel tempo innanzi parlato contro la mia opinione per cagione di distinti onori, neanche adesso vo’ farlo ; ma dirò quello che tengo per migliore. Bene io veggo che negli animi vostri non arebbe forza il mio discorso se vi esortassi a salvare quel che avete, e a non arrischiare il presente per cose incerte e future. Il perché intendo mostrarvi che vi affannate fuor di tempo , e che non è facile ad ottenere quello a cui correte.

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

ἃ μὲν ἐπράσσετο —‘the design failed, because Alc. . . knowing that he would be banished, gave information about the plot, of which he had knowledge.’

τούς τε ἄνδρας — i.e. τοὺς μηνυθέντας .

πρότερον —before the Athentans arrived.

ἐπεκράτουν —the subject is suddenly narrowed down from the Messenians at large ( οἱ δέ) to the party favourable to Syr. ( οἱ ταῦτα βουλόμενοι).

περί —as in I. 117 ἡμέρας περὶ τεσσάρας καὶ δέκα. But this use of περί to denote the appioximate period is not common. It does not occur in the orators, nor in Aristoph.

προυχώρει —a favourite word with Thue. for ‘to succeed.’

ὅρια καί —on the MSS. Θρᾳκας see crit. note. ὅρια are, according to Stahl, protected places for the storage of arms and baggage. Hesych. explains ὅρια as τείχισμα, φραγμός. Others understand ὅρια as ‘docks,’ νεώρια.

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.9

Theodor Braun (Translator)

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