Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Theodor Braun (Translator), 5.91

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Athener: „Sollte es mit unserer Herrschaft auch zu Ende
gehen, so machen wir uns darüber, was weiter aus uns werden
wird, keine Sorge. Denn von einer Macht, die selbst über
andere herrscht, wie die Lakedämonier, — mit denen wir es
übrigens hier nicht zu tun haben, - hat der Besiegte nicht
allzuviel zu fürchten; weit gefährlicher ist es, wenn die eigenen
Untertanen sich gegen ihre Herren auflehnen und sie besiegen.
In dieser Hinsicht laßt uns unsere Haut nur selbst zu Markte
tragen. Vernehntt also, daß wir hier sind, um euch unserer
Herrschaft zu unterwerfen, und mit euch darüber zu reden
gedenken, wie sich das mit dem Wohl eures Landes am besten
vereinigen läßt; denn wir wollen euch damit nicht bedrücken,
wünschen vielmehr, daß ihr dabei zu unser beider Vorteil gut
fahren werdet."

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Theodor Braun (Translator). Leipzig. 1917.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 5.91.1 focus

ΑΘ.

ἡμεῖς δὲ τῆς ἡμετέρας ἀρχῆς, ἢν καὶ παυθῇ, οὐκ ἀθυμοῦμεν τὴν τελευτήν· οὐ γὰρ οἱ ἄρχοντες ἄλλων, ὥσπερ καὶ Λακεδαιμόνιοι, οὗτοι δεινοὶ τοῖς νικηθεῖσιν (ἔστι δὲ οὐ πρὸς Λακεδαιμονίους ἡμῖν ὁ ἀγών), ἀλλ’ ἢν οἱ ὑπήκοοί που τῶν ἀρξάντων αὐτοὶ ἐπιθέμενοι κρατήσωσιν.

ΑΘ.

καὶ περὶ μὲν τούτου ἡμῖν ἀφείσθω κινδυνεύεσθαι· ὡς δὲ ἐπ’ ὠφελίᾳ τε πάρεσμεν τῆς ἡμετέρας ἀρχῆς καὶ ἐπὶ σωτηρίᾳ νῦν τοὺς λόγους ἐροῦμεν τῆς ὑμετέρας πόλεως, ταῦτα δηλώσομεν, βουλόμενοι ἀπόνως μὲν ὑμῶν ἄρξαι, χρησίμως δ’ ὑμᾶς ἀμφοτέροις σωθῆναι.

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 5.91.1 focus

[1] Ath. As for us, though our dominion should cease, yet we fear not the sequel. For not they that command, as do the Lacedaemonians, are cruel to those that are vanquished by them (yet we have nothing to do now with the Lacedaemonians), but such as having been in subjection have assaulted those that commanded them and gotten the victory.

[2] But let the danger of that be to ourselves. In the meantime we tell you this: that we are here now both to enlarge our own dominion and also to confer about the saving of your city. For we would have dominion over you without oppressing you, and preserve you to the profit of us both.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 5.91.1 focus

‘The end of our empire, if end it should, does not frighten us: a rival empire like Lacedaemon , even if Lacedaemon was our real antagonist, is not so terrible to the vanquished as subjects who by themselves attack and overpower their rulers.

This, however, is a risk that we are content to take. We will now proceed to show you that we are come here in the interest of our empire, and that we shall say what we are now going to say, for the preservation of your country; as we would fain exercise that empire over you without trouble, and see you preserved for the good of us both.’

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 5.91 focus

Athener: „Wenn auch unserer Oberherrschaft einmal ein
Ende gemacht werden sollte, so fürchten wir die Folgen nicht. Denn
solche,, die selbst über Andere herrshcen, — und zu denen gehören ja
auch die Lakedämonier —, sind den Besiegten nicht furchtbar — und
wir kämpfen ja hier nicht einmal gegen die Lakedämonier; — wohl
aber sind Unterthanen zu fürchten, wenn sie ihre Herrshcer angreifen
und besiegen. Aber was das betrifft, so laßt uns diese Gefahr nur
selbst bestehen. Wir wollen euch jetzt nur zeigen, daß wir zur
Festigung unserer Herrschaft hier sind und daß wir, um euren Staat zu
retten, mit euch unterhandeln. Wir wollen über euch herrshcen, ohne
daß ihr uns die Sache schwer macht, und wünschen, daß ihr zu unser
beider Nutzen erhalten bleibt."

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 5.91 focus

XCI. L es A théniens. « La fin de notre domination, si elle doit finir, nous laisse sans inquiétudes; car ce ne sont pas les peuples habitués à la domination, comme ¹ les Lacédémoniens, qui traitent durement les vaincus; — et d’ailleurs nous n’avons pas affaire aux Lacédémoniens : — ce sont au contraire les peuples soumis, lorsqu’ils attaquent leurs anciens maîtres et prennent sur eux l’avantage. Mais laissons de côté ces chances qui nous regardent : nous voulons établir que c’est l’intérêt de notre domination qui nous amène ici, et que nos propositions tendent au salut de votre ville; car notre but est de vous tenir sous notre puissance sans qu’il nous en coûte de peine, et de vous conserver pour votre avantage et pour le nôtre.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 5.91 focus

Les Athéniens. Si notre domination doit avoir un terme, nous sommes loin de nous en alarmer. Ce ne sont pas les peuples possesseurs d’un empire, tels que les Lacédémoniens, qui sont redoutables aux vaincus: d’ailleurs il n’est pas question des Lacédémoniens ; ce sont les sujets, lorsqu’il leur arrive d’attaquer et de vaincre leurs anciens maîtres. Mais ceci nofcs concerne à nos risques et périls. Ce que nous tenons à établir, c’est que nous sommes ici pour le bien de notre empire et que nous parlons en vue de votre salut, notre désir étant de vous commander sans obstacle et de vous voir sauvés dans l’intérêt des deux partis.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 5.91.1 focus

[1] ATH. “But we on our part, so far as our empire is concerned, even if it should cease to be, do not look forward to the end with dismay. For it is not those who rule over others, as the Lacedaemonians also do—though our quarrel is not now with the Lacedaemonians—that are a terror to the vanquished, but subject peoples who may perchance themselves attack and get the better of their rulers.

[2] And as far as that is concerned, you must permit us to take the risk. But that it is for the benefit of our empire that we are here, and also the safety of your city that we now propose to speak, we shall make plain to you, since what we desire is to have dominion over you without trouble to ourselves, and that you should be saved to the advantage of both.”

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 5.91.1 focus

[1] Ath.

Nay, for our part, we are not disheartened about the end of our empire, even should it be brought to an end. For it is not those who rule over others, like the Lacedaemonians, that are to be feared by the vanquished. Nor is it with the Lacedaemonians that we have to struggle, but with the possibility of our subjects in any quarter by themselves attacking and overpowering those who have had rule over them.

[2]

So on this point let the danger be left to us. But that we are come here for the benefit of our empire, and that we shall also speak on the present occasion for the preservation of your country, on these points we will give you proofs; since we wish to maintain our own sovereignty over you without trouble, and to have you preserved for the advantage of us both.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 5.91.1 focus

[1] Atii. Nos vero nostri imperii, etiam si deletum fuerit, finem non extimescimus; neque enim, qui aliis imperant, ut Lacedaemonii, ii sunt formidabiles victis (in praesentia autem nullum cum Lacedaemoniis nobis est certamen), sed si alicubi illi, qui aliorum imperio paruerint, ipsi eos aggressi superaverint.

[2] Sed hac quidem de re periclitari nobis permittatur; illud vero declarabimus, nos et ob utilitatem nostri imperii adesse, et ob vestrae civitatis salutem verba nunc facturos, quippe qui cupimus et sine labore vobis imperare et vos ex usu utrorumque salvos esse.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 5.91 focus

Aten. « Ma quand'anche il nostro impero venisse abbattuto, il suo fine non ci sgomenta ; imperciocché quelli che, come i Lacedemoni, sono usi a comandare altrui, non sono formidabili ai vinti. Ora però non abbiamo a fare coi Lacedemoni ; ci duole bensì che i soggetti abbiano ad assalire e vincere chi ha il comando. Ma lasciamo stare nell’ incertezza questo caso. Noi vogliamo solo dimostrarvi che siamo qui per procurare il vantaggio del nostro impero , e che ora parleremo per bene della vostra città, desiderando di avere impero su voi senza vostro incomodo, e di vedervi salvi con vantaggio di tutti e due ».

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 5.91

Theodor Braun (Translator)

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