Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Adolf Wahrmund (Translator), 6.82

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„Wir sind hieher gekommen, um die früher bestandene
Bundesgenossenschaft zu.erneuern; weil uns aber der Syrakusaner
angreift, so bin ich gezwungen, auch über unsere Herrschaft zu reden,
um zu zeigen, daß wir sie mit Recht besitzen. Den stärksten
Vertheidigungsgrund hat er selber beigebracht, daß nämlich die Joner
allezeit Feinde der Dorer seien. Und so ist es auch in der That. Wir
Athener nämlich, die wir Joner sind, mußten gegenüber den
Peloponnesiern, die Dorer sind und, an Zahl überlegen, in unserer
nächsten Nähe wohnen, nach Mitteln und Wegen suchen, um uns vor ihrer
Herrschaft so sicher als möglich zu stellen, und als wir nach den
Perserkriegen im Besitz einer Flotte waren, haben wir uns von der
Herrschaft und Führung der Lakedämonier frei gemacht, da doch jene
durchaus nicht mehr berechtigt waren, uns zu befehlen, als wir ihnen,
wenn sie nicht eben im Augenblicke die Stärkeren waren. So traten
wir denn auf als Führer der Hellenen, die früher dem Perserkönig
gehorcht, und haben unsere Staatseinrichtungen getroffen, von der
Ueberzeugung ausgehend, daß wir vor der Herrschaft der
Peloponnesier am sichersten seien, wenn wir selber die Macht besäßen, um sie
abzuwehren. Und will man genau zusehen, so haben wir die Joner
und Inselbewohner nicht einmal mit Unrecht uns unterworfen,
obgleich die Syrakusaner sagen, daß wir sie trotz der
Stammverwandtschaft mit Gewalt geknechtet hätten. Denn sie sind im Bunde mit
den Medern gegen uns, ihren Mutterstaat, zu Feld gezogen und
haben eS nicht gewagt abzufallen und ihr Haus und Gut preiszugeben,
wie wir gethan, die unsere Stadt verließen, sondern die Knechtschaft
zogen sie vor und wollten auch uns dieselbe aufzwingen."

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Adolf Wahrmund (Translator). Stuttgart. 1864.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] ‘ἀφικόμεθα μὲν ἐπὶ τῆς πρότερον οὔσης ξυμμαχίας ἀνανεώσει, τοῦ δὲ Συρακοσίου καθαψαμένου ἀνάγκη καὶ περὶ τῆς ἀρχῆς εἰπεῖν ὡς εἰκότως ἔχομεν.

[2] τὸ μὲν οὖν μέγιστον μαρτύριον αὐτὸς εἶπεν, ὅτι οἱ Ἴωνες αἰεί ποτε πολέμιοι τοῖς Δωριεῦσιν εἰσίν. ἔχει δὲ καὶ οὕτως· ἡμεῖς γὰρ Ἴωνες ὄντες Πελοποννησίοις Δωριεῦσι καὶ πλέοσιν οὖσι καὶ παροικοῦσιν ἐσκεψάμεθα ὅτῳ τρόπῳ ἥκιστα αὐτῶν ὑπακουσόμεθα,

[3] καὶ μετὰ τὰ Μηδικὰ ναῦς κτησάμενοι τῆς μὲν Λακεδαιμονίων ἀρχῆς καὶ ἡγεμονίας ἀπηλλάγημεν,οὐδὲν προσῆκον μᾶλλόν τι ἐκείνους ἡμῖν ἢ καὶ ἡμᾶς ἐκείνοις ἐπιτάσσειν, πλὴν καθ’ ὅσον ἐν τῷ παρόντι μεῖζον ἴσχυον, αὐτοὶ δὲ τῶν ὑπὸ βασιλεῖ πρότερον ὄντων ἡγεμόνες καταστάντες οἰκοῦμεν, νομίσαντες ἥκιστ’ ἂν ὑπὸ Πελοποννησίοις οὕτως εἶναι, δύναμιν ἔχοντες ᾗ ἀμυνούμεθα, καὶ ἐς τὸ ἀκριβὲς εἰπεῖν οὐδὲ ἀδίκως καταστρεψάμενοι τούς τε Ἴωνας καὶ νησιώτας, οὓς ξυγγενεῖς φασὶν ὄντας ἡμᾶς Συρακόσιοι δεδουλῶσθαι.

[4] ἦλθον γὰρ ἐπὶ τὴν μητρόπολιν ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς μετὰ τοῦ Μήδου καὶ οὐκ ἐτόλμησαν ἀποστάντες τὰ οἰκεῖα φθεῖραι, ὥσπερ ἡμεῖς ἐκλιπόντες τὴν πόλιν, δουλείαν δὲ αὐτοί τε ἐβούλοντο καὶ ἡμῖν τὸ αὐτὸ ἐπενεγκεῖν.

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] "Though our coming were to renew our former league, yet seeing we are touched by the Syracusian, it will be necessary we speak something here of the right of our dominion.

[2] And the greatest testimony of this right he hath himself given, in that he said the Ionians were ever enemies to the Dorians. And it is true. For being Ionians, we have ever endeavoured to find out some means or other how best to free ourselves from subjection to the Peloponnesians, that are Dorians, more in number than we and dwelling near us.

[3] After the Medan war, having gotten us a navy, we were delivered thereby from the command and leading of the Lacedaemonians, there being no cause why they should rather be leaders of us than we of them save only that they were then the stronger. And when we were made commanders of those Grecians which before lived under the king, we took upon us the government of them, because we thought that, having power in our hands to defend ourselves, we should thereby be the less subject to the Peloponnesians. And to say truth, we subjected the Ionians and islanders (whom the Syracusians say we brought into bondage being our kindred) not without just cause;

[4] for they came with the Medes against ours, their mother city, and for fear of losing their wealth durst not revolt, as we did, that abandoned our very city. But as they were content to serve, so they would have imposed the same condition upon us.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] ‘Although we came here only to renew the former alliance, the attack of the Syracusans compels us to speak of our empire and of the good right we have to it.

[2] The best proof of this the speaker himself furnished, when he called the Ionians eternal enemies of the Dorians. It is the fact; and the Peloponnesian Dorians being our superiors in numbers and next neighbours, we Ionians looked out for the best means of escaping their domination.

[3] After the Median war we had a fleet, and so got rid of the empire and supremacy of the Lacedaemonians, who had no right to give orders to us more than we to them, except that of being the strongest at that moment; and being appointed leaders of the king's former subjects, we continue to be so, thinking that we are least likely to fall under the dominion of the Peloponnesians, if we have a force to defend ourselves with, and in strict truth having done nothing unfair in reducing to subjection the Ionians and islanders, the kinsfolk whom the Syracusans say we have enslaved.

[4] They, our kinsfolk, came against their mother country, that is to say against us, together with the Mede , and instead of having the courage to revolt and sacrifice their property as we did when we abandoned our city, chose to be slaves themselves, and to try to make us so.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 6.82 focus

„Eigentlich sind wir nur hier, um das alte Bündnis zu
erneuern. Die Angriffe des Syrakusers nötigen uns aber,
auch über unsere Herrschaft ein Wort zu sagen, die wir denn
doch mit gutem Recht besitzen. Den besten Beweis dafür hat
er selbst schon angeführt, daß nämlich Jonier und Dorier
von jeher Feinde gewesen seien. Damit verhält es sich so:
Wir als Jonier mußten darauf bedacht sein, unsere Unab
hängigkeit gegenüber den uns an Zahl überlegenen Doriern
in unserer Nachbarschaft möglichst zu wahren, und nach den
Perserkriegen, als wir im Besitz einer Flotte waren, gelang
es uns auch, die Hegemonie der Lakedämonier abzuschütteln.
Hatten sie uns doch so wenig zu befehlen, wie wir ihnen, so
weit sie nicht eben ihre Übermacht damals dazu in den Stand
setzte. Nachdem wir den Oberbefehl über die bisherigen Unter
tanen des Königs übernommen hatten, haben wir ihn dann
auch weiter beibehalten in der Meinung, so im Besitz einer
Macht, die uns zum Widerstand befähigte, unsere Unabhängig
keit den Peloponnesiern gegenüber am besten behaupten zu
können und genau genommen auch die Jonier und Jnselvölker,
von denen die Syrakuser sagen, wir hätten sie unerachtet der
Verwandtschaft unterjocht, keineswegs mit Unrecht unter unsere
Herrschaft gebracht zu haben. Denn sie waren mit den Per
sern gegen uns, ihr Mutterland, zu Felde gezogen und hatten
nicht den Mut, sich von ihnen loszusagen und wie wir, als
wir unsere Stadt verließen, Hab und Gut preiszugeben,
sondern wollten lieber Knechte bleiben und auch uns dazu
machen.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.82 focus

LXXXII. « Nous sommes venus pour le renouvellement de l’ancienne alliance; mais, provoqués par les attaques du Syracusain, nous sommes dans la nécessité de parler de notre empire et d’en démontrer la légitimité. Il en a donné lui-même la meilleure preuve en disant qu’il y a éternelle inimitié entre les Ioniens et les Doriens, ce qui est en effet. Nous, qui sommes loniens, placés en présence des Péloponnésiens, nation dorienne, plus nombreux que nous, nos voisins, nous avons cherché les moyens d’échapper entièrement à leur domination. Après la guerre médique, en possession d’une flotte, nous nous sommes soustraits à l’empire et au commandement des Lacédémoniens; car, à part leur puissance alors prépondérante, ils n’avaient pas plus le droit de nous dicter des lois que nous de leur en imposer. Placés nous-mêmes à la tête des peuples auparavant soumis au Roi, nous administrons leurs affaires, parce que nous avons pensé que le meilleur moyen de nous soustraire à l’empire des Péloponnésiens était d’avoir une force pour nous défendre. Et, pour parler vrai, il n’y a eu aucune injustice de notre part à sou mettre ces Ioniens et ces insulaires, que les Syracusains nous accusent d’avoir asservis malgré les liens d’une commune origine : car ils ont marché contre la métropole, contre nous, d’accord avec le Mède; ils n’ont point osé émigrer en détruisant leurs propriétés, comme nous l’avons fait lors de l’abandon de notre ville; ils ont choisi pour eux la servitude, et ils ont voulu nous l’apporter également.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 6.82 focus

« Nous sommes venus pour le renouvellement de l'ancienne alliance ; mais, puisque nous sommes attaqués par l'orateur syracusain, il faut bien que nous démontrions la légitimité de notre empire.

« Le meilleur de tous les arguments est celui qu'il a donné lui-même, lorsqu’il a parlé du vieil antagonisme entre Ioniens et Doriens. Nous Ioniens, placés en regard des Do riens du Péloponèse, nation beaucoup plus nombreuse que la nôtre, nous avons cherché dès l’abord les moyens de nous soustraire à leur domination. Après la guerre Médique, nous trouvant en possession d’une marine, nous avons secoué le joug des Lacédémoniens ; car il n’y avait pas plus de raison à eux de nous l’imposer qu’à nous de le leur faire subir, si ce n’est que leurs forces alors étaient supérieures aux nôtres. Devenus chefs des peuples auparavant soumis au roi, nous avons établi sur eux notre suprématie , parce que pour nous la seule manière d’échapper à Fascendant des Péloponésiens était de posséder une puissance imposante.

« D’ailleurs, il faut le dire, ce n’est pas sans motif que nous avons fait la loi à ces Ioniens et à ces insulaires, qu’oh nous reproche d’avoir subjugués au mépris des liens du sang. Ces peuples avaient marché avec le Mède contre nous, contre leur métropole. Ils n’avaient pas eu le courage de rompre avec lui et de ruiner leurs propriétés, comme nous le fîmes nous-mêmes en abandonnant notre ville. Esclaves, ils nous apportaient leur propre esclavage.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] "We had come here for the renewal of the alliance¹ which formerly existed, but as the Syracusan has attacked us it is necessary to speak also about our empire, showing how rightly we hold it.

[2] Now the strongest proof of this the speaker himself stated--that Ionians have always been enemies to the Dorians. It is even so. Accordingly, we, being Ionians, considered in what we way we should be least subject to the Peloponnesians who are Dorians and not only more numerous than we but our near neighbors.²

[3] And after the Persian wars we acquired a fleet and rid ourselves of the rule and supremacy of the Lacedaemonians, it being not in any way more fitting that they give orders to us than we to them, except in so far as they at the time were stronger. Having, then, ourselves become leaders of those who were before subject to the King, we so continue, thinking that we should in this way be least subject to the Peloponnesians, because we have power with which to defend ourselves. And to say the exact truth, not unjustly, either, did we subdue both the Ionians and the islands, whom the Syracusans say we have enslaved though they are our kinsmen.

[4] For they came against us, their mother-city, along with the Persians, and had not the courage to revolt and sacrifice their homes, as we did when we abandoned our city, but chose slavery for themselves and wished to impose the same condition on us.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] "Though we are come hither for the purpose of renewing our former alliance, yet, as the Syracusan orator has attacked us on that head, we must also address you on the subject of our empire, to show that we enjoy it on just grounds.

[2] The strongest proof, then, of this he himself has mentioned, in his assertion that the Ionians have ever been hostile to the Dorians. And such too is the case. For we, who are Ionians, considered, with regard to the Peloponnnesians. who are Dorians, and more numerous than ourselves, and living near us, in what way we might be least subject to them.

[3] And after the Median invasion, having got a fleet, we released ourselves from the empire and supremacy of the Lacedaemonians; since they had no more right to command us than we them, except so far as they were at present more powerful. Thus having been ourselves appointed leaders of those who were before under the king, we so continue; considering that in this way we should least fall under the power of the Peloponnesians, by having a force with which to defend ourselves; and, to speak accurately, not having unjustly, either, reduced the Ionians and islanders to subjection, whom the Syracusans say that we have enslaved, though our kinsmen.

[4] For they came against their mother-country, against us, I mean, in company with the Mede; and could not bring themselves to revolt from him, and to sacrifice their property-as we did, when we evacuated our city-but chose slavery themselves, and to bring the same on us also.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.82.1 focus

[1] « Veneramus quidem, ut pristinam societalem renovaremus, sed quoniam Syracusanus nos incessit, ne-Gessarium esteliam de imperio nostro verba facere, ut hoc a nobis jure obtineri demonstremus.

[2] Maxitnum igitur hujus rei testimonium ipse dixit hoc, quod Iones Doriensium hoetes semper sint. Et vero res ita se habet : nos enim, qui sumus Iones, rationem iniimus, qua Peloponnesiis , qui sunt Dorienses et plures, quam.nos, et iidem accola·, minime obediremus,

[3] et post Medicum bellum parata classe Lacedaemoniorum imperio et principatu liberati sumus, quia non magis decebat illos nobis, quam etiam nos illis imperare, nisi quatenus id temporis nobis potentiores erant, et contra nos ipsi eorum, qui regis imperio prius parebarant, duces extitimus et sic nunc agimus, existimantes, ita nos in Peloponnesiorum potestatem minime venturos esse, quum potentiam habeamus, qua vim propulsemus, et, ut dicam quod res est, non injuria in nostram potestatem Iones et insularum incolas redegerimus, quos Syracusani a nobis in servitutem redactos aiunt, quamvis iis simus cognati.

[4] Nam adversus nos, melropolin suam, cum Medo venerant, nec ausi erant defectione a Medo facta res domesticas profligare, quemadmodum nos, qui urbem deseruimus, sed et ipsi servitutem pati, et nobis idem imponere volebant.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.82 focus

c« Noi certamente eravamo venuti qua per rinnovare l’alleanza di prima : ma sentendoci tocchi dal Siracusano, ci è forza parlare anche intorno al nostro impero, mostrando che giustamente lo abbiamo. Egli pertanto ne ha addotta la più gran testimonianza col dire che gli Ionii sono mai sempre nemici ai Doriesi. E la cosa sta pur così. Imperciocché noi che siamo Ionii abbiamo sempre studiato il modo di non obbedire in nulla ai Peloponnesi che Doriesi sono, e in più numero di noi e confinanti. E dopo la guerra de’Medi, essendoci procacciata una flotta, ci liberammo dal dominio e dalla capitaneria de’Lacedemoni che non avean diritto di comandare a noi , più che noi a loro ; se non in quanto erano allora più forti. Divenuti poi duci dei Greci stati prima sotto il re, ne ritenghiamo il governo, perchè credemmo che avendo così forze da resistere, non ci troveremmo in balìa de’ Peloponnesi. E a parlare rigorosamente, non abbiamo soggiogato a torto gli Ionii e gli isolani, cui i Siracusani dicono aver noi assoggettati benché parenti. No, perchè insiem col Medo eran venuti contro noi, città madre, e non aveano avuto il cuore di ribellarsi a lui, e di disestare le cose domestiche, siccome noi che abbandonammo la città; e non coutenti della loro servitù, voleano imporre anco a noi lo stesso giogo.

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

ἀφικόμεθα —our intention when we came was to renew the treaty (see c. 75, 3), but we now find it necessary to defend the imperial policy of Athens.

ἐπὶ τῆς πρότερον . . ἀνανεώσει —cf. c. 33, 1 περὶ τοῦ ἐπίπλου τῆς ἀληθείας. The art. is often omitted with the governing noun.

ἔχομεν —sc. αὐτήν.

μαρτύριον —sc. ὡς εἰκότως ἄρχομεν. It is necessary for us, as hereditary enemies of the Dorians, to secure ourselves.

ἔχει δὲ καὶ οὕτως —‘moreover the case stands exactly as follows.’ Classen and others explain this οὕτως as referring to what precedes, which is further dealt with in what follows. But the δέ forms an antithesis to what precedes. The general principle, says the speaker, is enough to justify us; but there is besides the following special circumstance. οὕτως ἔχειν often refers to what follows.

Ἴωνες ὄντες Πελοποννησίοις —‘being Ionians in the eyes of the P., while they were Dorians and superior in numbers and near neighbours of ours.’ In § 2 he has said οί Ἴωνες πολέμιοι τοῖς Δωριεῦσίν εἰσιν. So now, instead of saying πολέμιοι ὄντες Πελοποννησίοις, he ingeniously says Ἴωνες (= πολέμιοι) ὄντες Πελοποννησίοις. (The edd. have, I believe, missed the meaning of this sentence. For the alterations of the text see the crit. note. The old explanation, that αὐτῶν is a repetition of Πελοποννησίοις in a different case by anacoluthon, is quite untenable. Herbst believes there is an ellipse of πολέμιοι, but I do not see the need of this.) This sentence admirably expresses the contempt of the Dorians for the Ionians (cf. c. 68), who were only fit in their view to be their subjects.

vαῦς κτησάμενοι —this refers to the building of a fleet, which was due to the advice of Themistocles, probably in 483. Hence μετὰ τὰ Μηδικά belongs to ἀπηλλάγημεν rather than to κτησάμενοι.

τῆς μὲν Λακεδαιμονίων κτλ —the speaker has to represent Athens as an upholder of liberty, and yet he cannot say that she strove to get free from a δουλεἰα, as that word has been used against her. He therefore admits that Sparta, so long as she was superior in power, had justly led the confederacy ( ἡγεμονἰα) and exercised dominion ( ἀρχή).

πλὴν καθ) ὅσον —cf. c. 54, 6.

ἐν τῷ παρόντι —‘for the time being.’

οἰκοῦμεν —the edd. explain this as intrans., meaning either ‘live’ (for ἐσμέν, διάγομεν) in the position of ἡγέμονες, or ‘find ourselves’ in that position. For the conjectures see crit. note. It is much more likely that the verb is trans., sc. τὰ ὑπὸ β. πρότερον ὄντα= ‘manage their (external) affairs,’ as though he said οἰκοῦμεν τὰ τῶν ξυμμάχων, the word being used here metaphorically, like ταμιεύεσθαι and ταμίας (cc. 18, 3; 78 2). This forms a good antithesis to ἀπηλλάγημεν τῆς Α. ἀρχῆς, and is in keeping with the context. It also contrasts well with ἐπιτάσσειν. See Intr. § 21. < ἀσφαλῶς> οἰκοῦμεν Stein.

οὕτως — i.e. οἰκοῦντες τοὺς . . ὄντας.

ἐς τὸ ἀκριβές —‘accurately.’ Cf. c. 104, 2 n. ἐς τὰ μάλιστα.

εἰπεῖν —absolute: M.T. § 777.

ἐφ) ἡμᾶς —‘that is against us.’ The prep. is not often repeated before an apposition.

οὐκ ἐτόλμησαν κτλ —‘conld not bring themselves to revolt (sc. τοῦ Μήδου) and sacrifice their property, abandoning their city as we did,’ or ‘ whereas we abandoned our city.’ This sort of attraction with οὐχ ὤσπερ is very common (see e g. Shilleto on Thuc. II. 42 , Kock on Aristoph. Eq. 784, or DeuschleCron on Plat. Gorg. 522 A). δουλείαν δὲ . . ἐβούλοντο—βούλομαι only here with a subst. as obj.: Bohme-Widmann compare τὴν αὐτὴν δύναται δούλωσιν I. 141 . We should also expect ἐβουλήθησαν, if the sense is ‘they chose slavery.’ Heibst understands ἐνεγκεῖν to ἐβούλοντο from ἐπενεγκεῖν, but such an ellipse is surely impossible. δουλεύειν of the inferior MSS. is very tempting. See crit. note.

τὸ αὐτό —after the fem. δουλείαν, by a common change. With ἐπενεγκεῖν supply ἐβούλοντο

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.82

Adolf Wahrmund (Translator)

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