Edgar Carew Marchant, Commentary on Thucydides Book 2, ed. Edgar Carew Marchant, 2.54

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[1] Τοιούτῳ μὲν —the description is now concluded, the following particulars heing added as an afterthought ( a) to illustrate the superstition rife at the time, ( b) to indicate the locale of the plague.

περιπεσόντες —cf. c. 59, 2, and the phrase, συμφορᾷ περιπεσεῖν, constantly occurring in the orators.

[2] Ἐν —‘during,’ though κακὸν is not temporal. Cf. c. 63, 1.

οἷα εἰκός —cf. c. 5, 4, and ὡς εἰκός VIII. 2, 3.

ἔπους —‘verse,’ 41, 4.

οἱ πρεσβύτεροι —limiting apposition. Cf. 4, 2, 11, 1, 16, 1, 21, 3.

ᾄδεσθαι —c. 8, 2, 21, 3.

ἥξει —common in prophecies, Eur. Sup. 1222 πικροὶ γὰρ αὐτοῖς ἥξετ’ ἐκτεθραμμένοι | σκύμνοι λεόντων. St. Matt. XXIV. 14 τότε ἥξει τὸ τέλος. πόλεμος καὶ λοιμὸς—there is intentional παρομοίωσις here, as often in oracles. The change of λιμὸς to λοιμὸς would be suggested by Il. 1, 61 εἰ δὴ ὁμοῦ πόλεμός τε δαμᾷ καὶ λοιμὸς Ἀχαιούς, and Hesiod, W. and D. 242 μέγ’ ἐπήγαγε πῆμα Κρονίων | λιμὸν ὁμοῦ καὶ λοιμόν .

[3] Ὠνομάσθαι —‘that famine, and not pestilence had been the original word.’ (This translation is imperfect because it introduces a comparatively modern association.)

ὑπὸ τῶν παλαιῶν —might have been dat.

ἐπὶ τοῦ παρόντος —cf. ἐπὶ τῷ παρόντι c. 36, 4. The gen. is more distinctly temporal = ‘at the moment.’

πρὸς ἃ ἔπασχον —cf. VI. 34 τῶν ἀνθρώπων πρὸς τὰ λεγόμενα καὶ αἱ γνῶμαι ἵστανται. μνήμην ἐποιοῦντο— act. of μνήμη ἐγένετο in 4 below, and = ἀνεμνήσθησαν in 2.

δέ γε —these particles always cap a previous statement, whether made by the speaker himself or an opponent. They are sometimes separated.

καταλάβῃ —c. 18, 2.

[4] Ὅτε —see c. 21, 1.

τὸν θεόν —as Apollo was both healer and destroyer, they thought that the god was helping the enemy by sending the plague. Cf. the opening of Il. 1, and O. T. first chorus.

[5] Περὶ μὲν οὖν —Thuc. leaves this doubtful, without expressing his own opinions: then he goes on with the facts, δὲ being equivalent to δ’ οὖν. ‘As concerns .., they thought that what was happening corresponded to it.’

ὅ τι ἄ. καὶ εἰπεῖν — = ὅ τι καὶ ἀ. εἰπεῖν. ταῦτα μὲν —ἐστι is regularly omitted in this phrase, as in sed haec hactenus. Cf. IV. 41, 4; VII. 87, 6.

Commentary on Thucydides Book 2. Edgar Carew Marchant. ed. Edgar Carew Marchant. London. 1891.

Funding provided by National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Commentary on Thucydides Book 2 (English) (Thucydides, Book II. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1891.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] τοιούτῳ μὲν πάθει οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι περιπεσόντες ἐπιέζοντο, ἀνθρώπων τ’ ἔνδον θνῃσκόντων καὶ γῆς ἔξω δῃουμένης.

[2] ἐν δὲ τῷ κακῷ οἷα εἰκὸς ἀνεμνήσθησαν καὶ τοῦδε τοῦ ἔπους, φάσκοντες οἱ πρεσβύτεροι πάλαι ᾄδεσθαι

‘ἥξει Δωριακὸς πόλεμος καὶ λοιμὸς ἅμ’ αὐτῷ.’

[3] ἐγένετο μὲν οὖν ἔρις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις μὴ λοιμὸν ὠνομάσθαι ἐν τῷ ἔπει ὑπὸ τῶν παλαιῶν, ἀλλὰ λιμόν, ἐνίκησε δὲ ἐπὶ τοῦ παρόντος εἰκότως λοιμὸν εἰρῆσθαι· οἱ γὰρ ἄνθρωποι πρὸς ἃ ἔπασχον τὴν μνήμην ἐποιοῦντο. ἢν δέ γε οἶμαί ποτε ἄλλος πόλεμος καταλάβῃ Δωρικὸς τοῦδε ὕστερος καὶ ξυμβῇ γενέσθαι λιμόν, κατὰ τὸ εἰκὸς οὕτως ᾄσονται.

[4] μνήμη δὲ ἐγένετο καὶ τοῦ Λακεδαιμονίων χρηστηρίου τοῖς εἰδόσιν, ὅτε ἐπερωτῶσιν αὐτοῖς τὸν θεὸν εἰ χρὴ πολεμεῖν ἀνεῖλε κατὰ κράτος πολεμοῦσι νίκην ἔσεσθαι, καὶ αὐτὸς ἔφη ξυλλήψεσθαι.

[5] περὶ μὲν οὖν τοῦ χρηστηρίου τὰ γιγνόμενα ᾔκαζον ὁμοῖα εἶναι· ἐσβεβληκότων δὲ τῶν Πελοποννησίων ἡ νόσος ἤρξατο εὐθύς, καὶ ἐς μὲν Πελοπόννησον οὐκ ἐσῆλθεν, ὅτι καὶ ἄξιον εἰπεῖν, ἐπενείματο δὲ Ἀθήνας μὲν μάλιστα, ἔπειτα δὲ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων χωρίων τὰ πολυανθρωπότατα. ταῦτα μὲν τὰ κατὰ τὴν νόσον γενόμενα.

Translations (11)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] Such was the misery into which the Athenians being fallen were much oppressed, having not only their men killed by the disease within but the enemy also laying waste their fields and villages without.

[2] In this sickness also (as it was not unlikely they would) they called to mind this verse said also of the elder sort to have been uttered of old:

A Doric war shall fall,

And a great plague withal.

Now were men at variance about the word, some saying it was not loimos [plague], that was by the ancients mentioned in that verse, but limos [famine]. But upon the present occasion the word loimos deservedly obtained. For as men suffered, so they made the verse to say. And I think if after this there shall ever come another Doric war and with it a famine, they are like to recite the verse accordingly.

[4] There was also reported by such as knew a certain answer given by the oracle to the Lacedaemonians when they inquired whether they should make this war or not:

[5] that if they warred with all their power, they should have the victory, and that the God himself would take their parts. And thereupon they thought the present misery to be a fulfilling of that prophecy. The Peloponnesians were no sooner entered Attica but the sickness presently began, and never came into Peloponnesus, to speak of, but reigned principally in Athens and in such other places afterwards as were most populous. And thus much of this disease.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] Such was the nature of the calamity, and heavily did it weigh on the Athenians; death raging within the city and devastation without.

[2] Among other things which they remembered in their distress was, very naturally, the following verse which the old men said had long ago been uttered:

A Dorian war shall come and with it death.

[3] So a dispute arose as to whether dearth and not death had not been the word in the verse; but at the present juncture, it was of course decided in favor of the latter; for the people made their recollection fit in with their sufferings. I fancy, however, that if another Dorian war should ever afterwards come upon us, and a dearth should happen to accompany it, the verse will probably be read accordingly.

[4] The oracle also which had been given to the Lacedaemonians was now remembered by those who knew of it. When the God was asked whether they should go to war, he answered that if they put their might into it, victory would be theirs, and that he would himself be with them.

[5] With this oracle events were supposed to tally. For the plague broke out so soon as the Peloponnesians invaded Attica , and never entering Peloponnese (not at least to an extent worth noticing), committed its worst ravages at Athens , and next to Athens , at the most populous of the other towns. Such was the history of the plague.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 2.54 focus

In solchem Elend lebten die bedrängten Athener: in der
Stadt starben die Menschen dahin, und draußen wurde ihnen das
Land verwüstet. In dieser Noth erinnerten sich auch, wie leicht zu
denken, die älteren Leute des Wahrspruchs, der vor Zeiten sollte
gegeben worden sein: ¹

430 v. ²
„Kommen wird einstmals dorischer Krieg lind mit ihm die Seuche."
Hierüber entstand nun ein Streit unter den Leuten, es habe in dem
von den Alten überlieferten Wahrspruch nicht geheißen „die Seuche"
(loimos), sondern „der Hunger" (liinos); unter den gegenwärtigen
Umständen siegte aber natürlich die Meinung, es habe geheißen, „die
Seuche." Denn das Gedächtnis; der Menschen war willig, sich nach
tem gegenwärtigen Leiden zu richten, und ich glaube, wenn später
wieder einmal ein dorischer Krieg käme und dabei eine Hungersnoth
ansbräche, so würde man ganz gewiß die Weissagung danach zustutzen.
Wem aber die Sache bekannt war, der erinnerte sich auch des den
Lakedämoniern gegebenen Götterspruches, als ihnen damals, da sie
den Gott befragten, ob sie den Krieg anfangen sollten oder nicht, zur
Antwort wurde: wer mit Macht den Krieg betreibe, dessen werde der
Sieg sein, und dem werde auch der Gott selbst beistehen; — und diese
urtheilten nun, daß das Eingetroffene der Weissagung ganz entspreche,
denn gleich nach dem Einfalle der Peloponnesier fing auch die Seuche
an, und im Peloponnes trat sie nicht so auf, daß es der Rede werth
gewesen wäre, sondern wüthete grade am ärgsten in Athen, und dann
später auch in den volkreichsten anderen Städten. Das ist's, was
von der Pest zu berichten war.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 2.54 focus

So waren die Athener damals in großer Not, in der
Stadt starben ihnen die Menschen, und draußen verwüstete der
Feind ihr Land. Kein Wunder, daß sie sich in dieser Not
auch der Weissagung erinnerten, die ihnen, wie die alten Leute
versicherten, vorzeiten mal verkündet worden war: „Es wird
kommen der dorische Krieg und damit die Seuche."
Nun entstand freilich Streit darüber, ob es in dem alten
Spruche die Seuche (Loimos) oder die Hungersnot (Limos)
geheißen habe. Unter den damaligen Umständen aber behielt
natürlich die Ansicht die Oberhand, daß es die Seuche ge
heißen, weil man ihn eben dem anpaßte, was man selbst er
lebte; und ich glaube, wenn einmal wieder ein dorischer Krieg
käme und dabei eine Hungersnot einträte, so würde man sich
den Spruch wahrscheinlich auch danach zurechtlegen. Allen
aber, denen sie bekannt geworden, fiel nun auch die Antwort
ein, welche das Orakel den Lakedämoniern auf die Frage, ob
sie Krieg anfangen sollten, erteilt hatte: „wenn sie den Krieg
nachdrücklich führten, würden sie siegen und der Gott selbst
werde auf ihrer Seite sein"; und da fand man nun, daß der
bisherige Verlauf der Sache dem völlig entspräche. Denn
gleich nach dem Einfall der Peloponnesier war die Pest aus
gebrochen, der Peloponnes aber so gut wie ganz davon ver
schont geblieben. Am ärgsten dagegen war sie grade in Athen
und danach auch in anderen besonders volkreichen Orten auf
getreten. So viel von der Pest und ihren Folgen.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 2.54 focus

LIV. Tels étaient les maux qui accablaient les Athéniens ; au dedans la dépopulation, au dehors la dévasCation des campagnes. Au milieu de ce désastre, on se rappela naturellement ce vers que les vieillards disaient avoir entendu chanter autrefois :

Viendra guerre Dorique, et Loimos avec elle.

Un débat s’était élevé sur ce vers, et l’on avait prétendu que les anciens n’avaient pas dit loimos (la peste), mais limos (la disette)¹. Dans les conjonctures présentes l’opinion qui prévalut naturellement fut qu’il était question de la peste ; car ils mettaient leurs souvenirs en harmonie avec leurs souffrances. Je ne doute pas, du reste, que s’il survient jamais une autre guerre avec les Doriens, accompagnée de disette, on ne donne au vers ce dernier sens. On se rappelait aussi l’oracle rendu aux Lacédémoniens, ceux du moins qui le connaissaient, lorsque le dieu, interrogé par eux s’ils devaient faire la guerre, avait répondu qu’en « combattant énergiquement, on aurait la victoire et que lui-même viendrait en aide. » On trouvait les événements en rapport avec l’oracle, la peste ayant commencé aussitôt après l’invasion des Péloponnésiens². Elle ne pénétra pas dans le Péloponnèse³, ou du moins n’y fit aucun ravage notable ; mais elle dévasta surtout Athènes et ensuite les autres villes les plus populeuses⁴. Voilà pour ce qui concerne la peste.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 2.54 focus

Tels étaient les fléaux qui s’appesantissaient sur Athènes : au dedans la mortalité, au dehors la dévastation. Dans le malheur, selon l’usage, on se rappela une prédiction que les vieillards prétendaient avoir été chantée jadis :

Viendra la guerre dorienne et la peste avec elle.

A ce sujet, il s’éleva une contestation ; quelques-uns soutenaient que, dans ce vers, il y avait anciennement, non pas la peste y mais la famine¹. Cependant le premier de ces mots prévalut, comme de raison, à cause de la circonstance; les hommes mettaient leurs souvenirs en harmonie avec leurs maux. Mais que jamais il s’allume une nouvelle guerre dorienne, accompagnée de famine, l’on ne manquera pas, je pense, de préférer l’autre leçon. Les gens qui en avaient connaissance se rappelaient aussi l’oracle rendu aux Lacédémoniens par le dieu de Delphes, lorsque, interrogé par eux sur l’opportunité de la guerre, il avait répondu que, s’ils la faisaient à outrance, ils auraient la victoire et que lui-même les seconderait². C’est ainsi qu’on cherchait à faire concorder l’oracle avec les événements. Au reste la maladie commença immédiatement après l’entrée des Péloponésiens en Attique ; elle n’attaqua pas le Péloponèse, au moins d’une manière sérieuse: mais elle désola principalement Athènes et les endroits de l' Attique les plus peuplés. Telles furent les particularités relatives à la peste.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] Such then was the calamity that had befallen them by which the Athenians were sore pressed, their people dying within the walls and their land being ravaged without.

[2] And in their distress they recalled, as was natural, the following verse which their older men said had long ago been uttered:

[3]

A Dorian war shall come and pestilence with it.

A dispute arose, however, among the people, some contending that the word used in the verse by the ancients was not Xot/os, "pestilence," but At/uos, "famine," and the view prevailed at the time that "pestilence" was the original word; and quite naturally, for men's recollections conformed to their sufferings. But if ever another Dorian war should visit them after the present war and a famine happen to come with it, they would probably, I fancy, recite the verse in that way.

[4] Those, too, who were familiar with it, recalled that other oracle given to the Lacedaemonians, when, in answer to their inquiry whether they should go to war, the god responded that if they "warred with all their might victory would be theirs," adding that he himself would assist them.i Now so far as the oracle is concerned, they surmised that what was then happening was its fulfilment, for the plague broke out immediately after the Peloponnesians had invaded Attica;

[5] and though it did not enter the Peloponnesus to any extent, it devastated Athens most of all, and next to Athens the places which had the densest population. So much for the history of the plague.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] Such was the calamity which the Athenians had met with, and by which they were afflicted, their men dying within the city, and their land being wasted without.

[2] In their misery they remembered this verse amongst other things, as was natural they should; the old men saying that it had been uttered long ago;

A Dorian war shall come, and plague faith it.

[3] Now there was a dispute amongst them, [and some asserted,] that it was not

a plague

[ loimos] that had been mentioned in the verse by the men of former times, but

a famine,

[ limos]: the opinion, however, at the present time naturally prevailed that

a plague

had been mentioned: for men adapted their recollections to what they were suffering. But, I suppose, in case of another Dorian war ever befalling them after this, and a famine happening to exist, in all probability they will recite the verse accordingly.

[4] Those who were acquainted with it recollected also the oracle given to the Lacedaemonians, when on their inquiring of the god whether they should go to war, he answered,

that if they carried it on with all their might, they would gain the victory;

[5]

and that he would himself take part with them in it.

With regard to the oracle then, they supposed that what was happening answered to it. For the disease had begun immediately after the Lacedaemonians had made their incursion; and it did not go into the Peloponnese, worth even speaking of, but ravaged Athens most of all, and next to it the most populous of the other towns. Such were the circumstances that occurred in connexion with the plague.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 2.54.1 focus

[1] Tali igitur malo Athenienses correpti graviter premebantur, quum et homines intra muros morerentur, et foris ager vastaretur.

[2] Dum autem hoc malo vexantur, quum alia, quae par erat, memoria repetebant, tum hoc etiam carmen, quod seniores olim cantari dicebant,

Una Doriacum veniet cum peste duellum.

[3] Incidit igitur hominibus altercatio non pestem (λοιμόν) in isto carmine ab antiquis nominatam, sed famem (λιμόν); evicit autem in praesentia illud merito, pestilentiam significatam esse; homines enim ad mala, quae patiebantur, memoriam accommodabant. Si vero linquam aliud Doricum bellum post hoc incesserit, et famem esse contigerit, probabile est, puto, hoc modo eos canturos.

[4] Oraculum etiam Lacedaemoniis redditum ab illis, qui hoc noverant, memorabatur, quum ipsis oraculum consulentibus, bellum-ne movendum esset, Deus respondit, ipsos fore victores, si bellum totis viribus gererent, seque ipsis opem laturum dixit

[5] Quod igitur attinet ad oraculum, ea , quae fiebant, cum ipso convenire staluebant; quum autem Peloponnesii irrupissent, statim bic morbus grassari coepit. Et Peloponnesum quidem non invasit, ita quidem ut sit relatu dignum; depastus vero est Athenas praecipue, deinde ex aliis locis ea, quae maxima populi frequentia erant referta.

[6] Atque haec quidem sunt ea, quae in morbo evenerunt.

Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides First1KGreek (Thucydides. Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides. Gürsching, Heinrich, translator. Augsburg: Wirth, 1856.) — 2.59.1 focus

[1] Männer von Sicilien! Ihr wisset, nicht die Ohnmacht meiner Vaterstadt oder ihre Erschöpfung durch den Krieg ist es, was mir diese Worte eingibt, sondern allein die uneigennützige Absicht, dem gesamten Sicilien den besten Rath zu ertheilen, den es nach meiner Ueberzeugung für dasselbe gibt. Ich möchte von dem Krieg und seinen Leiden anheben und über seine zahllosen Uebel mich verbreiten; indes ihr kennet sie ja. Denn so wenig Unkunde die Schuld trägt an einem aufgenöthigten Kriege, ebensowenig lässt sich die Eroberungslust durch Furcht von ihm zurückschrecken. Natürlich; ihr¹ erscheinen die Vortheile grösser als die Gefahren, während man dort sich lieber den Kriegsgefahren aussetzen will, um einem gewissen Verlust zu entgehen. Aber eben wenn es sich ergibt, dass beide Grundsätze zur Unzeit in Anwendung gebracht werden, dann ist eine Mahnung zur Friedfertigkeit am Platze. Dies ist gerade unser Fall, und es liegt alles daran, dass wir uns davon überzeugen.

Hat uns nicht alle bisher die Erwägung unserer Sonderinteressen geleitet in diesem Kriege wie heute bei unsern Friedensvorschlägen, wo wieder hin und hergerechtet wird, und falls es nicht jedem gelingt, zu seinem Rechte zu kommen, der Wiederausbruch des Krieges in gewisser Aussicht steht?

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 2.54 focus

In mezzo a si acerbo trambusto erano gli Ateniesi afflitti dalla moria della gente in città, e al di fuori dal saccheggiamento delle campagne. Si ricordavano , come è naturale nella disgrazia, anche di questo verso che i più vecchi raccontavano anticamente cantato ;

Verrà dorica gnerra e loimo insieme.

Fuwi certamente disputa nel popolo, non essere stata usata dai vecchi la voce loimo (peste) bensì limo (fame). Ma prevalse allora, com’era da aspettarsi , la voce loimo. Imperocché la gente la rammentava interpretandola conforme ai mali presenti: e se mai sarà che altra guerra dorica sopravvenga dopo questa , e vi si combini limo, lo canteranno verisimilmente con questo vocabolo. "Vi era ancora chi sapeva e rammentava la risposta del nume domandato dai Lacedemoni f se dovessero far guerra ; allorquando ei rispose, che facendola con tutte le forze avrebbero vittoria, e che egli stesso vi avrebbe concorso. Riflettendo dunque a quell’oracolo conghietturavano essere il fatto presente in corrispondenza di ciò; perchè subito do-’ po l’invasione dei Peloponnesi era incominciata la pestilenza , la quale non penetrò nel Peloponneso, almeno in modo degno di menzione ; ma fece strazio principalmente di Atene e quindi d'altri luoghi i più popolosi. Tali sono le cose che riguardano la pestilenza.

Edgar Carew Marchant Commentary on Thucydides Book 2 2.54

ed. Edgar Carew Marchant

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