Aristote Poetics 6.22

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Or tout ce qui regarde le diſcours dépend de la Rhetorique & de l'Uſage commun.

Poetics. Aristote. Paris. 1692.

Current edition Experimental

La poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) (fra) (André Dacier's French translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1692.)

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (4)
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) (Aristotle, Poetics. Immanuel Bekker, editor, Aristotelis Opera, volume 2. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1837.) — 6 focus
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) Perseus (Aristotle, De arte poetica liber. Rudolf Kassel, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1965. Reference edition for passage alignment.) — 6 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's Greek text of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 6 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Franz Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's 1839 Greek edition, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 6 focus
Translations (13)
Poetics (W. H. Fyfe) (OCR draft) Perseus (William Hamilton Fyfe's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, Loeb Classical Library, 1939 printing.) — 6 focus
Arabic Poetics (Badawī edition, 1953) (OCR draft) (The ancient Arabic translation of Aristotle's Poetics in ʿAbd al-Raḥmān Badawī's 1953 edition.) — 6 focus
Poetics (S. H. Butcher, 1911) (OCR draft) Experimental (S. H. Butcher's English translation from Aristotle's Theory of Poetry and Fine Art, fourth edition, 1911.) — 6 focus
Aristotle on the Art of Poetry (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 6 focus
Poetics (Thomas Twining, 1789) (OCR draft) Experimental (Thomas Twining's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1789 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 6.22 focus
In the third place stand the SENTIMENTS. To this part it belongs, to say such things as are true and proper; which, in the dialogue, depends on the Political and Rhetorical arts: for,
The Poetic of Aristotle (Henry James Pye, revised 1792) (OCR draft) Experimental (Henry James Pye's revised 1792 English translation, corrected against the 1788 first edition, aligned to the Kassel reference edition, and supplied with a selective apparatus of substantive 1788 readings.) — 6.22 focus
Sentiment holds the third place
The Poetic of Aristotle (Theodore Alois Buckley) (OCR draft) Experimental (Theodore Alois Buckley's English translation, first published in 1850 and represented from the Henry G. Bohn 1857 printing; corrected against a second OCR and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 6.22 focus
But the sentiments rank third. 1 And by them [I mean] the power of explaining what is inherent in the subject, and adapted to it, which is the peculiar province of politics and rhetoric.
Poetica Latine conversa (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's Latin translation, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 6 focus
Poetica d'Aristotile (Bernardo Segni, 1549) (OCR draft) Experimental (Bernardo Segni's 1549 Florentine Italian translation, aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 6 focus
De poetica (Antonio Riccobono, 1587) (OCR draft) Experimental (Antonio Riccobono's Latin translation, first published in 1587; text represented from Immanuel Bekker's 1831 edition.) — 6 focus
De arte poetica liber (William of Moerbeke, ca. 1277) (OCR draft) Experimental (William of Moerbeke's medieval Latin translation, represented by the 1953 Aristoteles Latinus edition.) — 6 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition) (OCR draft) Experimental (The Arabic translation attributed to Abū Bishr Mattā, edited by Jaroslaus Tkatsch in 1928 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 6 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition, unaligned) (OCR draft) Experimental (Tkatsch's edition of the medieval Arabic translation in its original, unaligned segmentation.) — 6 focus

Commentary

Commentary on the Poetics (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) (Ingram Bywater's English commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

22. mvp-aristotle-comment-266

τρίτον δὲ ἡ διάνοια As the intellectual quality of the dramatis personae comes out mainly in what they are made to say, διάνοια is provisionally explained (see on 6) as a power of making the best of one's case or of saying the right thing.

22. mvp-aristotle-comment-267

1450b5 τὰ ἐνόντα scil. ἐν τοῖς πράγμασιν, as in Isocr. 292 E
ὑπισχνοῦνται τοιούτους ῥήτορας τοὺς συνόντας ποιήσειν ὥστε μηδὲν τῶν ἐνόντων ἐν τοῖς πράγμασι παραλιπεῖν
 (comp. Bon. Ind. 250 a 56 ). The whole expression τὰ ἐνόντα καὶ τὰ ἁρμόττοντα covers the same ground as that in Rhet. 2. 22, 1396 b 5
τὰ ἐνδεχόμενα καὶ τὰ ἐπικαιρότατα
.

22. mvp-aristotle-comment-268

1450b6 ἐπὶ τῶν λόγων has been taken to mean 'in soluta oratione' (Paccius), and 'in orationibus' (Valla) or 'in eloquentia', 'bei der Beredsamkeit' (Vahlen). The explanation, however, in the context, ἐποίουν λέγοντας (57), is enough to show that the λόγοι Aristotle has in mind are the λόγοι in a play, i.e. the ῥήσεις put into the mouths of the personages. This is apparently the sense the word bears in the next sentence also,
τῶν λόγων ἐν οἷς μηδ᾿ ὅλως ἔστιν τι προαιρεῖται ἢ φεύγει ὁ λέγων
(b 9).

22. mvp-aristotle-comment-269

τῆς πολιτικῆς καὶ ῥητορικῆς ἔργον Aristotle seems to be thinking of what is said in a play by the chief personages (e. g. the tragic hero), and of the kind of intellectual capacity ( διάνοια) revealed in their statements. One has to remember that the chief personages in ancient Tragedy are not ordinary men, and that the tragic hero is expressly said by Aristotle ( 13, 1453 a 10-21 ) to be always in the best tragedies a man of great position and lineage. In a play, therefore, such personages might very well be made to speak πολιτικῶς, 'like statesmen', and to show a statesmanlike power of saying what is appropriate to the situation before them ( τὰ ἁρμόττοντα). But it would also be possible to make them speak ῥητορικῶς, 'like rhetors', with something of the rhetor's cleverness in seizing on the various possible points that may be urged on the occasion ( τὰ ἐνόντα, i.e. τὰ ἐνδεχόμενα). Though ῥητορική stands in a certain relation to πολιτική ( Rhet. 1. 2, 1356 a 27 ), the distinction between them is a very real one with Aristotle; πολιτική is with him the practical wisdom of the statesman ( Eth. N. 6. 8, 1141 b 23 ), and ῥητορική only a form of the art of argumentation—a
δύναμις τοῦ πορίσαι λόγους
( Rhet. 1. 2, 1356 a 33 ), or
δύναμις περὶ ἑκάστου τοῦ θεωρῆσαι τὸ ἐνδεχόμενον πιθανόν
( Rhet. 1. 2, 1355 b 26 ). There is no reference to πολιτική in chap. 19 . Aristotle may perhaps have felt that the practice of the later dramatists ( οἱ νῦν) was too firmly established to admit of change, and that the tragic personages accordingly must still be allowed to speak ῥητορικῶς, as they did in the Tragedy of his time.
1450b7

Remarques sur la poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) (André Dacier's French commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

51. mvp-aristotle-comment-191

6.22 51. Or tout ce qui regarde le diſcours, dépend de la Rhetorique & de l'uſage commun.] 1

Commentary on the Poetics (Thomas Twining, 1789) (OCR draft) (Thomas Twining's notes on Aristotle's Poetics, aligned to the Kassel reference edition.) focus

55. mvp-aristotle-comment-55

NOTE 55. P. 78.

6.22 TO THIS PART BELONGS, &c.-
Aristotle is not here defining
Διανοἰα
, as his expression,
τουτο δε ΕΣΤΙ
, seems, at first view, to imply: he is only explaining the subservience of the sentiments to the manners; he is shewing why they are next in rank and importance to the manners; namely, because manners or characters, are, in great part at least, manifested by the sentiments. Dacier's note here is good.
"Aristote suit ici l'ordre naturel. Les sentimens font pour les mœurs, ce que les mœurs font pour l'action. Comme un Poete tragique ne peut bien imiter une action, qu'en employant les mœurs, il ne peut non plus bien marquer les mœurs, que par le moyen des sentimens, & par consequent les sentimens tiennent le troisieme rang dans la Tragedie."

56. mvp-aristotle-comment-56

NOTE 56. P. 78.

6.22 WHICH, IN THE DIALOGUE, DEPENDS ON THE POLITICAL AND RHETORICAL ARTS.
Ὅπερ, ἐπι των λόγων, της πολιτικής και ῥητορικης ἔργον ἐστιν.
— I have not seen the words,
ἐπι των λογων
, satisfactorily explained. I cannot agree with those commentators, who by
λογοι
, here, understand, oratory, prose eloquence, as opposed to Poetry: a sense, indeed, very common, in Aristotle and other writers; but if we adopt it here, how follows—
ὁι ΓΑΡ ἀρχαιοι πολιτικώς ΕΠΟΙΟΥΝ λέγοντας
? for here, Aristotle evidently speaks of Poets; not of orators, as Dacier renders it. The passage, then, fairly translated, would stand thus:—"which, (i. e. the choice of proper sentiments,) in ORATORY, is the business of the political and rhetorical arts: FOR the antient Tragic Poets made their characters speak politically," &c. Nothing can well be more incoherent.
Επι των λόγων
, means, I think, in the speeches, discourse, or dialogue part of the drama, as distinguished from the choral or lyric part, which had nothing, or comparatively nothing, to do with
ηθος
or character, and in which the Poet was, of course, to draw his
διανοια
, or thoughts, principally at least, from different sources; not from the stores of civil wisdom, or rhetorical art, but from those of Religion, Ethics, Mythology, and Poetry. The word
λογοι
, is clearly used in the same sense, in a passage that presently follows:—
διοπερ ἐκ ἐχεσιν ήθη ἐνιοι των ΛΟΓΩΝ
—"some of the speeches, or the dialogue."

Commentarius in Aristotelis Poeticam (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) (Ritter's Latin commentary, extracted from the 1839 volume, divided by Ritter's chapters and sections, and linked to the corresponding Perseus reference subsections.) focus

15. mvp-aristotle-comment-49

Ritter, cap. 6 § 15

-19. quae iam sequuntur ab aliena manu Aristotelis operi inserta esse dico, et inserta quidem ab antiquo interpolatore qui hanc disputationem mancam esse ratus, cum unius fabulae dignitatis explicatio ei sufficere non videretur,ceterarum etiam partium ordinem et gradus exponendos sibi sumpsit, sed efficere quod operae pretium esset tamen non potuit, ut haec pro insiticiis habeam, quinque mihi suadent argumenta. 1. ordo singulis sententiis et nexus deest. 2. quae iam dicta sunt inepte repetuntur. 3. definitiones partim falsae partim inanes proponuntur. 4. nonnulla prioribus repugnant. 5. exposita fabulae prae ceteris partibus praestantia, post §. 14. apte pergere Aristoteles potest ut pergit capitis 7. initio. mores autem post fabulam gravissimam tragoediae partem esse, hoc sibi a legentibus concedi sperare ille poterat. singula ordine persequar. · παραπλήσιον - εἰκόνα: rerum complexionem primum tragoediae negotium esse, proximum autem descriptionem morum, id pessime hoc exemplo illustrari amantissimus quisque veritatis libenter mihi concesserit. scilicet φάρμακα pulcherrima et fuse illita comparavit iste cum moribus, imaginem albam delineatam cum fabula. utrisque delectari homines statuit, sed coloribus istis fuse illitis non aeque ( οὐχ ὁμοίως) atque imagine alba delineata. itaque (sic ille ratiocinatus est) fabula magis delectat quam mores, ideoque mores post fabulam collocandi sunt. hem hominem acutum. praeterea ἐναλείφειν τοῖς καλλίστοις φαρμάκοις est illinere pulcherrimis coloribus, ubi deest quid coloribus inducatur : quippe debuit ἐναλείψειε τὰ κάλλιστα φάρμακα. sed quaeritur possitne vitari offensio, si hic locus in fine §. 12. post ἔχουσα δὲ μῦθον καὶ σύστασιν πραγμάτων inseratur, id quod fecerunt et Buhlius et Hermannus. ego non sequar; primum quia transpositio ipsa violentum est remedium, tum quia non esse Aristotelis scio in re manifesta post minimum intervallum ex eadem arte exemplum petere, quod fit si haec post §. 12. inseruntur, deinde quod comparatio vel sic male instituta est: nam tum colores nullo ordine ( χύδην) illiti conferuntur moralibus sermonibus deinceps positis, cet. aliud indicium, quo transpositionem perperam fieri liquet, ex sequentibus (§. 15 extr.) se offert: nam transpositione facta, iam illa ἔστι τε μίμησις πράξεως, καὶ διὰ ταύτην μάλιστα τῶν πραττόντων sic legi non possunt, sed pro τε cum Hermanno γὰρ substituendum est. sed quis tandem pro γὰρ ponere τε animum induxisset, si id ab initio fuisset? immo τε non mutandum: interpolator enim iam alterum affert σημεῖον, unde mores post fabulam proximum locum occupare iste prò- bare intendit, idque imperite adnectit ἔστι τε μίμησις κτλ., imperite quidem sed tam bene quam ab isto exspectari potest. ipsam suam sapientiam hausit ex Aristoteliis illis (§. 10) οὔκουν ὅπως τὰ ἤθη μιμήσωνται πράττουσιν, ἀλλὰ τὰ ἤθη συμπεριλαμβάνουσι διὰ τὰς πράξεις. cum scribit τῶν πραττόντων, cogitavit iste τῆς ποιότητος (vel ἤθων) τῶν πραττόντων. fortasse respexit etiam illa (§. 9) ἡ γὰρ τραγῳδία μίμησίς ἐστιν οὐκ ἀνθρώπων ἀλλὰ πράξεως.