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Shades To Pluto Against Menippus

CROESUS

Pluto, we can’t stand having this Dog, Menippus, for our neighbour. So put him somewhere else, or we’ll move ourselves.

PLUTO

What harm does he do you as a fellow-shade?

CROESUS

Whenever we moan and groan at our memories of life above, Midas recalling his gold, Sardanapalus ¹ his great luxury, and I, Croesus, my treasures, he mocks and reviles us, calling us slaves and scum: sometimes he even disturbs our lamentations by singing. In short, he’s a pest.

PLUTO

What’s this they tell me, Menippus?

MENIPPUS

True enough, Pluto; I hate them; they’re low scoundrels, not content with having led bad lives, but even in death they remember their past and cling to it. That’s why I enjoy tormenting them.

PLUTO

You shouldn’t; they mourn great losses.

MENIPPUS

Are you a fool too, Pluto? Do you approve of their groanings?

PLUTO

Not at all, but I wouldn’t like you to be quarrelling.

MENIPPUS

Even so, you lowest of the low from Lydia, Phrygia and Assyria, I’d have you know that I’ll never stop. Wherever you go, I’ll follow, tormenting you with my songs and mockery.

CROESUS

Isn’t this outrageous?

MENIPPUS

No, the outrageous thing was your behaviour, when you expected people to worship you, treated free men with contempt, and forgot all about death. That’s why you’re going to lament the loss of all those things.

CROESUS

Oh, ye gods, many and great possessions they were!

MIDAS

All my gold!

SARDANAPALUS

All my luxury!

MENIPPUS

Bravo, go on. You keep up your whimperings, and I’ll accompany you with song, with a string of “Know-Thyself” s for my refrain. That’s the proper accompaniment for such lamentations.

Dialogi mortuorum. Lucian of Samosata. Matthew Donald Macleod (Translator). Medford, MA. Perseus 5.0.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Dialogues of the Dead (English) (Lucian, Vol. 7. Macleod, Matthew Donald, translator. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1961 (unrenewed copyright).)

Editions (2)

Νεκρικοὶ Διάλογοι Perseus (Lucian. Luciani Samosatensis Opera, Vol. 1. Jacobitz, Karl, editor. Leipzig: Teubner, 1909.) — 3 focus

Μένιππος, Ἀμφίλοχος καὶ Τροφώνιος

338

Μένιππος

σφὼ μέντοι, ὦ Τροφώνιε καὶ Ἀμφίλοχε, νεκροὶ ὄντες οὐκ οἶδʼ ὅπως ναῶν κατηξιώθητε καὶ μάντεις δοκεῖτε, καὶ οἱ μάταιοι τῶν ἀνθρώπων θεοὺς ὑμᾶς ὑπειλήφασιν εἶναι.

Ἀμφίλοχος

τί οὖν ἡμεῖς αἴτιοι, εἰ ὑπʼ ἀνοίας ἐκεῖνοι 339 τοιαῦτα περὶ νεκρῶν δοξάζουσιν;

Μένιππος

ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἂν ἐδόξαζον, εἰ μὴ ζῶντες καὶ ὑμεῖς τοιαῦτα ἐτερατεύεσθε ὡς τὰ μέλλοντα προειδότες καὶ προειπεῖν δυνάμενοι τοῖς ἐρομένοις.

Τροφώνιος

ὦ Μένιππε, Ἀμφίλοχος μὲν οὗτος ἂν εἰδείη ὅ τι αὐτῷ ἀποκριτέον ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ, ἐγὼ δὲ ἥρως εἰμὶ καὶ μαντεύομαι, ἤν τις κατέλθῃ παρʼ ἐμέ. σὺ δʼ ἔοικας οὐκ ἐπιδεδημηκέναι Λεβαδείᾳ τὸ παράπαν· οὐ γὰρ ἠπίστεις συ τούτοις.

Μένιππος

τί φής; εἰ μὴ ἐς Λεβάδειαν γὰρ παρέλθω καὶ ἐσταλμένος ταῖς ὀθόναις γελοίως μᾶζαν ἐν ταῖν χεροῖν 340 ἔχων ἐσερπύσω διὰ τοῦ στομίου ταπεινοῦ ὄντος ἐς τὸ σπήλαιον, οὐκ ἂν ἠδυνάμην εἰδέναι, ὅτι νεκρὸς εἶ ὥσπερ ἡμεῖς μόνῃ τῇ γοητείᾳ διαφέρων; ἀλλὰ πρὸς τῆς μαντικῆς, τί δαὶ ὁ ἥρως ἐστίν; ἀγνοῶ γάρ.

Τροφώνιος

ἐξ ἀνθρώπου τι καὶ θεοῦ σύνθετον.

Μένιππος

ὃ μήτε ἄνθρωπός ἐστιν, ὡς φής, μήτε θεός, καὶ συναμφότερόν ἐστι; νῦν οὖν ποῦ σου τὸ θεῶν ἐκεῖνο ἡμίτομον ἀπελήλυθε;

Τροφώνιος

χρᾷ, ὦ Μένιππε, ἐν Βοιωτίᾳ.

Μένιππος

οὐκ οἶδα, ὦ Τροφώνιε, ὅ τι καὶ λέγεις· ὅτι μέντοι ὅλος εἶ νεκρὸς ἀκριβῶς ὁρῶ.

Νεκρικοὶ διάλογοι Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 7. Macleod, Matthew Donald, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1961 (unrenewed copyright).) — 3 focus

336 ΝΕΚΡΩΝ ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝΙ ΚΑΤΑ ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΥ ¹

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Οὐ φέρομεν, ὦ Πλούτων, Μένιππον τουτονὶ τὸν κύνα παροικοῦντα· ὥστε ἢ ἐκεῖνόν ποι κατάστησον ἢ ἡμεῖς μετοικήσομεν εἰς ἕτερον τόπον.

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Τί δ’ ὑμᾶς δεινὸν ἐργάζεται ὁμόνεκρος ὤν;

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Ἐπειδὰν ἡμεῖς οἰμώζωμεν καὶ στένωμεν ἐκείνων μεμνημένοι τῶν ἄνω, Μίδας μὲν οὑτοσὶ τοῦ χρυσίου, Σαρδανάπαλλος δὲ τῆς πολλῆς τρυφῆς, ἐγὼ δὲ Κροῖσος τῶν θησαυρῶν, ἐπιγελᾷ καὶ ἐξονειδίζει ἀνδράποδα καὶ καθάρματα ἡμᾶς ἀποκαλῶν, ἐνίοτε δὲ καὶ ᾄδων ἐπιταράττει ἡμῶν τὰς οἰμωγάς, καὶ ὅλως λυπηρός ἐστιν.

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Τί ταῦτά φασιν, ὦ Μένιππε;

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Ἀληθῆ, ὦ Πλούτων· μισῶ γὰρ αὐτοὺς ἀγεννεῖς ² 337 καὶ ὀλεθρίους ὄντας, οἷς οὐκ ἀπέχρησεν βιῶναι κακῶς, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀποθανόντες ἔτι μέμνηνται καὶ περιέχονται τῶν ἄνω· χαίρω τοιγαροῦν ἀνιῶν αὐτούς.

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Ἀλλ' οὐ χρή· λυποῦνται γὰρ οὐ μικρῶν στερόμενοι. ³

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Καὶ σὺ μωραίνεις, ὦ Πλούτων, ὁμόψηφος ὢν τοῖς τούτων στεναγμοῖς;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἂν ἐθέλοιμι στασιάζειν ὑμᾶς.

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Καὶ μήν, ὦ κάκιστοι Λυδῶν καὶ Φρυγῶν καὶ Ἀσσυρίων, οὕτω γινώσκετε ὡς οὐδὲ παυσομένου μου· ἔνθα γὰρ ἂν ἴητε, ἀκολουθήσω ἀνιῶν καὶ κατᾴδων καὶ καταγελῶν.

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Ταῦτα οὐχ ὕβρις;

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Οὔκ, ἀλλ’ ἐκεῖνα ὕβρις ἦν, ἃ ὑμεῖς ἐποιεῖτε, προσκυνεῖσθαι ἀξιοῦντες καὶ ἐλευθέροις ἀνδράσιν ἐντρυφῶντες καὶ τοῦ θανάτου παράπαν οὐ μνημονεύοντες· τοιγαροῦν οἰμώξεσθε πάντων ἐκείνων ἀφῃρημένοι.

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Πολλῶν γε, ὦ θεοί, καὶ μεγάλων κτημάτων.

ΜΙΔΑΣ

Ὅσου μὲν ἐγὼ χρυσοῦ.

ΣΑΡΔΑΝΑΠΑΛΛΟΣ

Ὅσης δὲ ἐγὼ τρυφῆς.

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Εὖ γε, οὕτω ποιεῖτε· ὀδύρεσθε μὲν ὑμεῖς, ἐγὼ δὲ τὸ γνῶθι σαυτὸν πολλάκις συνείρων ἐπᾴσομαι ὑμῖν· πρέποι γὰρ ἂν ταῖς τοιαύταις οἰμωγαῖς ἐπᾳδόμενον.

Translations (1)

Dialogues of the Dead Perseus (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 1. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 3 focus

III

Menippus

Ampbilochus

Trophonius

Menippus

Now I wonder how it is that you two dead men have been honoured with temples and taken for prophets; those silly mortals imagine you are Gods.

Ampbilochus

How can we help it, if they are fools enough to have such fancies about the dead?

Menippus

Ah, they would never have had them, though, if you had not been charlatans in your lifetime, and pretended to know the future and be able to foretell it to your clients.

Trophonius

Well, Menippus, Amphilochus can take his own line, if he likes; as for me, I am a Hero, and do give oracles to any one who comes down to me. It is pretty clear you were never at Lebadea, or you would not be so incredulous.

Menippus

What do you mean? I must go to Lebadea, swaddle myself up in absurd linen, take a cake in my hand, and crawl through a narrow passage into a cave, before I could tell that you are a dead man, with nothing but knavery to differentiate you from the rest of us? Now, on your seer-ship, what is a Hero? I am sure I don’t know.

Trophonius

He is half God, and half man,

Menippus

So what is neither man (as you imply) nor God, is both at once? Well, at present what has become of your diviner half?

Trophonius

He gives oracles in Boeotia.

Menippus

What you may mean is quite beyond me; the one thing I know for certain is that you are dead—the whole of you.

Notes on the current edition

Dialogues of the Dead

1. Assur-Bani-Pal.

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Shades To Pluto Against Menippus

CROESUS Pluto, we can’t stand having this Dog, Menippus, for our neighbour. So put him somewhere else, or we’ll move ourselves.

PLUTO What harm does he do you as a fellow-shade?

CROESUS Whenever we moan and groan at our memories of life above, Midas recalling his gold, Sardanapalus 1 his great luxury, and I, Croesus, my treasures, he mocks and reviles us, calling us slaves and scum: sometimes he even disturbs our lamentations by singing. In short, he’s a pest.

PLUTO What’s this they tell me, Menippus?

MENIPPUS True enough, Pluto; I hate them; they’re low scoundrels, not content with having led bad lives, but even in death they remember their past and cling to it. That’s why I enjoy tormenting them.

PLUTO You shouldn’t; they mourn great losses.

MENIPPUS Are you a fool too, Pluto? Do you approve of their groanings?

PLUTO Not at all, but I wouldn’t like you to be quarrelling.

MENIPPUS Even so, you lowest of the low from Lydia, Phrygia and Assyria, I’d have you know that I’ll never stop. Wherever you go, I’ll follow, tormenting you with my songs and mockery.

CROESUS Isn’t this outrageous?

MENIPPUS No, the outrageous thing was your behaviour, when you expected people to worship you, treated free men with contempt, and forgot all about death. That’s why you’re going to lament the loss of all those things.

CROESUS Oh, ye gods, many and great possessions they were!

MIDAS All my gold!

SARDANAPALUS All my luxury!

MENIPPUS Bravo, go on. You keep up your whimperings, and I’ll accompany you with song, with a string of “Know-Thyself” s for my refrain. That’s the proper accompaniment for such lamentations.

Current edition Perseus

Μένιππος, Ἀμφίλοχος καὶ Τροφώνιος

Ἀμφίλοχος τί οὖν ἡμεῖς αἴτιοι, εἰ ὑπʼ ἀνοίας ἐκεῖνοι 339 τοιαῦτα περὶ νεκρῶν δοξάζουσιν;

Μένιππος ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἂν ἐδόξαζον, εἰ μὴ ζῶντες καὶ ὑμεῖς τοιαῦτα ἐτερατεύεσθε ὡς τὰ μέλλοντα προειδότες καὶ προειπεῖν δυνάμενοι τοῖς ἐρομένοις.

Τροφώνιος ἐξ ἀνθρώπου τι καὶ θεοῦ σύνθετον.

Μένιππος ὃ μήτε ἄνθρωπός ἐστιν, ὡς φής, μήτε θεός, καὶ συναμφότερόν ἐστι; νῦν οὖν ποῦ σου τὸ θεῶν ἐκεῖνο ἡμίτομον ἀπελήλυθε;

Τροφώνιος χρᾷ, ὦ Μένιππε, ἐν Βοιωτίᾳ.

Μένιππος οὐκ οἶδα, ὦ Τροφώνιε, ὅ τι καὶ λέγεις· ὅτι μέντοι ὅλος εἶ νεκρὸς ἀκριβῶς ὁρῶ.

336 ΝΕΚΡΩΝ ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝΙ ΚΑΤΑ ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΥ 1

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ Οὐ φέρομεν, ὦ Πλούτων, Μένιππον τουτονὶ τὸν κύνα παροικοῦντα· ὥστε ἢ ἐκεῖνόν ποι κατάστησον ἢ ἡμεῖς μετοικήσομεν εἰς ἕτερον τόπον.

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ Τί δ’ ὑμᾶς δεινὸν ἐργάζεται ὁμόνεκρος ὤν;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ Τί ταῦτά φασιν, ὦ Μένιππε;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ Ἀλλ' οὐ χρή· λυποῦνται γὰρ οὐ μικρῶν στερόμενοι. 3

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ Καὶ σὺ μωραίνεις, ὦ Πλούτων, ὁμόψηφος ὢν τοῖς τούτων στεναγμοῖς;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ Οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἂν ἐθέλοιμι στασιάζειν ὑμᾶς.

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ Ταῦτα οὐχ ὕβρις;

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ Πολλῶν γε, ὦ θεοί, καὶ μεγάλων κτημάτων.

ΜΙΔΑΣ Ὅσου μὲν ἐγὼ χρυσοῦ.

ΣΑΡΔΑΝΑΠΑΛΛΟΣ Ὅσης δὲ ἐγὼ τρυφῆς.

III

Menippus

Ampbilochus

Trophonius

Menippus Now I wonder how it is that you two dead men have been honoured with temples and taken for prophets; those silly mortals imagine you are Gods.

Ampbilochus How can we help it, if they are fools enough to have such fancies about the dead?

Menippus Ah, they would never have had them, though, if you had not been charlatans in your lifetime, and pretended to know the future and be able to foretell it to your clients.

Trophonius Well, Menippus, Amphilochus can take his own line, if he likes; as for me, I am a Hero, and do give oracles to any one who comes down to me. It is pretty clear you were never at Lebadea, or you would not be so incredulous.

Trophonius He is half God, and half man,

Menippus So what is neither man (as you imply) nor God, is both at once? Well, at present what has become of your diviner half?

Trophonius He gives oracles in Boeotia.

Menippus What you may mean is quite beyond me; the one thing I know for certain is that you are dead—the whole of you.

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

CROESUS

Pluto, we can’t stand having this Dog, Menippus, for our neighbour. So put him somewhere else, or we’ll move ourselves.

PLUTO

What harm does he do you as a fellow-shade?

CROESUS

Whenever we moan and groan at our memories of life above, Midas recalling his gold, Sardanapalus ¹ his great luxury, and I, Croesus, my treasures, he mocks and reviles us, calling us slaves and scum: sometimes he even disturbs our lamentations by singing. In short, he’s a pest.

PLUTO

What’s this they tell me, Menippus?

MENIPPUS

True enough, Pluto; I hate them; they’re low scoundrels, not content with having led bad lives, but even in death they remember their past and cling to it. That’s why I enjoy tormenting them.

PLUTO

You shouldn’t; they mourn great losses.

MENIPPUS

Are you a fool too, Pluto? Do you approve of their groanings?

PLUTO

Not at all, but I wouldn’t like you to be quarrelling.

MENIPPUS

Even so, you lowest of the low from Lydia, Phrygia and Assyria, I’d have you know that I’ll never stop. Wherever you go, I’ll follow, tormenting you with my songs and mockery.

CROESUS

Isn’t this outrageous?

MENIPPUS

No, the outrageous thing was your behaviour, when you expected people to worship you, treated free men with contempt, and forgot all about death. That’s why you’re going to lament the loss of all those things.

CROESUS

Oh, ye gods, many and great possessions they were!

MIDAS

All my gold!

SARDANAPALUS

All my luxury!

MENIPPUS

Bravo, go on. You keep up your whimperings, and I’ll accompany you with song, with a string of “Know-Thyself” s for my refrain. That’s the proper accompaniment for such lamentations.

Ἀμφίλοχος

τί οὖν ἡμεῖς αἴτιοι, εἰ ὑπʼ ἀνοίας ἐκεῖνοι 339 τοιαῦτα περὶ νεκρῶν δοξάζουσιν;

Μένιππος

ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἂν ἐδόξαζον, εἰ μὴ ζῶντες καὶ ὑμεῖς τοιαῦτα ἐτερατεύεσθε ὡς τὰ μέλλοντα προειδότες καὶ προειπεῖν δυνάμενοι τοῖς ἐρομένοις.

Τροφώνιος

ἐξ ἀνθρώπου τι καὶ θεοῦ σύνθετον.

Μένιππος

ὃ μήτε ἄνθρωπός ἐστιν, ὡς φής, μήτε θεός, καὶ συναμφότερόν ἐστι; νῦν οὖν ποῦ σου τὸ θεῶν ἐκεῖνο ἡμίτομον ἀπελήλυθε;

Τροφώνιος

χρᾷ, ὦ Μένιππε, ἐν Βοιωτίᾳ.

Μένιππος

οὐκ οἶδα, ὦ Τροφώνιε, ὅ τι καὶ λέγεις· ὅτι μέντοι ὅλος εἶ νεκρὸς ἀκριβῶς ὁρῶ.

336 ΝΕΚΡΩΝ ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝΙ ΚΑΤΑ ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΥ ¹

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Οὐ φέρομεν, ὦ Πλούτων, Μένιππον τουτονὶ τὸν κύνα παροικοῦντα· ὥστε ἢ ἐκεῖνόν ποι κατάστησον ἢ ἡμεῖς μετοικήσομεν εἰς ἕτερον τόπον.

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Τί δ’ ὑμᾶς δεινὸν ἐργάζεται ὁμόνεκρος ὤν;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Τί ταῦτά φασιν, ὦ Μένιππε;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Ἀλλ' οὐ χρή· λυποῦνται γὰρ οὐ μικρῶν στερόμενοι. ³

ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ

Καὶ σὺ μωραίνεις, ὦ Πλούτων, ὁμόψηφος ὢν τοῖς τούτων στεναγμοῖς;

ΠΛΟΥΤΩΝ

Οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἂν ἐθέλοιμι στασιάζειν ὑμᾶς.

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Ταῦτα οὐχ ὕβρις;

ΚΡΟΙΣΟΣ

Πολλῶν γε, ὦ θεοί, καὶ μεγάλων κτημάτων.

ΜΙΔΑΣ

Ὅσου μὲν ἐγὼ χρυσοῦ.

ΣΑΡΔΑΝΑΠΑΛΛΟΣ

Ὅσης δὲ ἐγὼ τρυφῆς.

Menippus

Now I wonder how it is that you two dead men have been honoured with temples and taken for prophets; those silly mortals imagine you are Gods.

Ampbilochus

How can we help it, if they are fools enough to have such fancies about the dead?

Menippus

Ah, they would never have had them, though, if you had not been charlatans in your lifetime, and pretended to know the future and be able to foretell it to your clients.

Trophonius

Well, Menippus, Amphilochus can take his own line, if he likes; as for me, I am a Hero, and do give oracles to any one who comes down to me. It is pretty clear you were never at Lebadea, or you would not be so incredulous.

Trophonius

He is half God, and half man,

Menippus

So what is neither man (as you imply) nor God, is both at once? Well, at present what has become of your diviner half?

Trophonius

He gives oracles in Boeotia.

Menippus

What you may mean is quite beyond me; the one thing I know for certain is that you are dead—the whole of you.