Lucian, Vitarum auctio, Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator), 24

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Seventh Dealer

And the same applies to the fees you take from your youthful pupils? None but the true believer sells virtue for a fee?

Chrysippus

Quite right. I take the fee in my pupil’s interest, not because I want it. The world is made up of diffusion and accumulation. I accordingly practise my pupil in the former, and myself in the latter.

Seventh Dealer

But it ought to be the other way. The pupil ought to accumulate, and you, ‘sole millionaire,’ ought to diffuse.

Chrysippus

Ha! you jest with me? Beware of the shaft of insoluble syllogism.

Seventh Dealer

What harm can that do?

Chrysippus

It cripples; it ties the tongue, and turns the brain.

Vitarum auctio. Lucian. Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator). Medford, MA, USA. 2023-08-01.

Current edition Perseus

Sale of Creeds (English) (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 1. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Editions (1)

Βίων Πρᾶσις Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 24 focus

Ἀγοράστης

οὐκοῦν καὶ μισθῶν πέρι τὰ αὐτὰ φῶμεν, οὓς σὺ λαμβάνεις ἐπὶ τῇ σοφίᾳ παρὰ τῶν νέων, καὶ δῆλον ὅτι μόνος ὁ σπουδαῖος μισθὸν ἐπὶ τῇ ἀρετῇ λήψεται;

Χρύσιππος

μανθάνεις· οὐ γὰρ ἐμαυτοῦ ἕνεκα¹ λαμβάνω, τοῦ δὲ διδόντος αὐτοῦ χάριν· ἐπεὶ γάρ ἐστιν ὁ μέν τις ἐκχύτης, ὁ δὲ περιεκτικός, ἐμαυτὸν μὲν ἀσκῶ εἶναι περιεκτικόν, τὸν δὲ μαθητὴν ἐκχύτην.

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ μὴν τοὐναντίον ἐχρῆν² τὸν νέον μὲν εἶναι περιεκτικόν, σὲ δὲ τὸν μόνον πλούσιον ἐκχύτην.

Χρύσιππος

σκώπτεις, ὦ οὗτος. ἀλλʼ ὅρα μή σε ἀποτοξεύσω τῷ ἀναποδείκτῳ συλλογισμῷ.

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ τί δεινὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ βέλους;

Χρύσιππος

ἀπορία καὶ σιωπὴ καὶ διαστραφῆναι τὴν διάνοιαν.

Translations (2)

Philosophies for Sale Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 24 focus

BUYER

Then we are to say the same of the fees that you get for your wisdom from young men, and obviously none but the scholar will get paid for his virtue?

STOIC

Your understanding of the matter is correct. You see, I donot take pay on my own account, but for the sake of the giver himself: for since there are two classes of men, the disbursive and the receptive, I train myself to be receptive and my pupil to be disbursive.

BUYER

On the contrary, the young man ought to be receptive and you, who alone are rich, disbursive!

STOIC

You are joking, man. Look out that I don’t shoot you with my indemonstrable syllogism.¹

BUYER

What have I to fear from that shaft?

STOIC

Perplexity and aphasia and a sprained intellect.

The Sale of Lives Perseus (Lucian. Selections from Lucian. Smith, Emily James, translator. New York: Harper Brothers, 1892.) — 24 focus

Buyer

And must we say the same of the fees you take for imparting your wisdom to young men? Is it clear that the good man alone will make money out of his virtue?

Chrysippos

You grasp the idea. It is not on my own account that I take fees, but for the good of the giver himself. For since one party in a transaction must give and the other receive, I train myself to receive and my pupil to give.

Lucian Vitarum auctio 24

Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator)

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Seventh Dealer

And the same applies to the fees you take from your youthful pupils? None but the true believer sells virtue for a fee?

Chrysippus

Quite right. I take the fee in my pupil’s interest, not because I want it. The world is made up of diffusion and accumulation. I accordingly practise my pupil in the former, and myself in the latter.

Seventh Dealer

But it ought to be the other way. The pupil ought to accumulate, and you, ‘sole millionaire,’ ought to diffuse.

Chrysippus

Ha! you jest with me? Beware of the shaft of insoluble syllogism.

Seventh Dealer

What harm can that do?

Chrysippus

It cripples; it ties the tongue, and turns the brain.

Current edition Perseus

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ μὴν τοὐναντίον ἐχρῆν² τὸν νέον μὲν εἶναι περιεκτικόν, σὲ δὲ τὸν μόνον πλούσιον ἐκχύτην.

Χρύσιππος

σκώπτεις, ὦ οὗτος. ἀλλʼ ὅρα μή σε ἀποτοξεύσω τῷ ἀναποδείκτῳ συλλογισμῷ.

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ τί δεινὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ βέλους;

Χρύσιππος

ἀπορία καὶ σιωπὴ καὶ διαστραφῆναι τὴν διάνοιαν.

BUYER

Then we are to say the same of the fees that you get for your wisdom from young men, and obviously none but the scholar will get paid for his virtue?

STOIC

Your understanding of the matter is correct. You see, I donot take pay on my own account, but for the sake of the giver himself: for since there are two classes of men, the disbursive and the receptive, I train myself to be receptive and my pupil to be disbursive.

BUYER

On the contrary, the young man ought to be receptive and you, who alone are rich, disbursive!

STOIC

You are joking, man. Look out that I don’t shoot you with my indemonstrable syllogism.¹

BUYER

What have I to fear from that shaft?

STOIC

Perplexity and aphasia and a sprained intellect.

Buyer

And must we say the same of the fees you take for imparting your wisdom to young men? Is it clear that the good man alone will make money out of his virtue?

Chrysippos

You grasp the idea. It is not on my own account that I take fees, but for the good of the giver himself. For since one party in a transaction must give and the other receive, I train myself to receive and my pupil to give.

Buyer

It ought to be the other way about. The young man ought to receive, and you, who alone are rich, to give out.

Chrysippos

You are chaffing, fellow; but be careful lest I let fly at you with the apodeiktic syllogism.

Buyer

What are the frightful effects of the weapon?

Chrysippos

Embarrassment, silence, confusion of mind.

Stable identifiers

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Seventh Dealer And the same applies to the fees you take from your youthful pupils? None but the true believer sells virtue for a fee?

Chrysippus Quite right. I take the fee in my pupil’s interest, not because I want it. The world is made up of diffusion and accumulation. I accordingly practise my pupil in the former, and myself in the latter.

Seventh Dealer But it ought to be the other way. The pupil ought to accumulate, and you, ‘sole millionaire,’ ought to diffuse.

Chrysippus Ha! you jest with me? Beware of the shaft of insoluble syllogism.

Seventh Dealer What harm can that do?

Chrysippus It cripples; it ties the tongue, and turns the brain.

Current edition Perseus

Ἀγοράστης καὶ μὴν τοὐναντίον ἐχρῆν 2 τὸν νέον μὲν εἶναι περιεκτικόν, σὲ δὲ τὸν μόνον πλούσιον ἐκχύτην.

Χρύσιππος σκώπτεις, ὦ οὗτος. ἀλλʼ ὅρα μή σε ἀποτοξεύσω τῷ ἀναποδείκτῳ συλλογισμῷ.

Ἀγοράστης καὶ τί δεινὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ βέλους;

Χρύσιππος ἀπορία καὶ σιωπὴ καὶ διαστραφῆναι τὴν διάνοιαν.

BUYER Then we are to say the same of the fees that you get for your wisdom from young men, and obviously none but the scholar will get paid for his virtue?

STOIC Your understanding of the matter is correct. You see, I donot take pay on my own account, but for the sake of the giver himself: for since there are two classes of men, the disbursive and the receptive, I train myself to be receptive and my pupil to be disbursive.

BUYER On the contrary, the young man ought to be receptive and you, who alone are rich, disbursive!

STOIC You are joking, man. Look out that I don’t shoot you with my indemonstrable syllogism. 1

BUYER What have I to fear from that shaft?

STOIC Perplexity and aphasia and a sprained intellect.

Buyer And must we say the same of the fees you take for imparting your wisdom to young men? Is it clear that the good man alone will make money out of his virtue?

Chrysippos You grasp the idea. It is not on my own account that I take fees, but for the good of the giver himself. For since one party in a transaction must give and the other receive, I train myself to receive and my pupil to give.

Buyer It ought to be the other way about. The young man ought to receive, and you, who alone are rich, to give out.

Chrysippos You are chaffing, fellow; but be careful lest I let fly at you with the apodeiktic syllogism.

Buyer What are the frightful effects of the weapon?

Chrysippos Embarrassment, silence, confusion of mind.

Stable identifiers

Seventh Dealer

And the same applies to the fees you take from your youthful pupils? None but the true believer sells virtue for a fee?

Chrysippus

Quite right. I take the fee in my pupil’s interest, not because I want it. The world is made up of diffusion and accumulation. I accordingly practise my pupil in the former, and myself in the latter.

Seventh Dealer

But it ought to be the other way. The pupil ought to accumulate, and you, ‘sole millionaire,’ ought to diffuse.

Chrysippus

Ha! you jest with me? Beware of the shaft of insoluble syllogism.

Seventh Dealer

What harm can that do?

Chrysippus

It cripples; it ties the tongue, and turns the brain.

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ μὴν τοὐναντίον ἐχρῆν² τὸν νέον μὲν εἶναι περιεκτικόν, σὲ δὲ τὸν μόνον πλούσιον ἐκχύτην.

Χρύσιππος

σκώπτεις, ὦ οὗτος. ἀλλʼ ὅρα μή σε ἀποτοξεύσω τῷ ἀναποδείκτῳ συλλογισμῷ.

Ἀγοράστης

καὶ τί δεινὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ βέλους;

Χρύσιππος

ἀπορία καὶ σιωπὴ καὶ διαστραφῆναι τὴν διάνοιαν.

BUYER

Then we are to say the same of the fees that you get for your wisdom from young men, and obviously none but the scholar will get paid for his virtue?

STOIC

Your understanding of the matter is correct. You see, I donot take pay on my own account, but for the sake of the giver himself: for since there are two classes of men, the disbursive and the receptive, I train myself to be receptive and my pupil to be disbursive.

BUYER

On the contrary, the young man ought to be receptive and you, who alone are rich, disbursive!

STOIC

You are joking, man. Look out that I don’t shoot you with my indemonstrable syllogism.¹

BUYER

What have I to fear from that shaft?

STOIC

Perplexity and aphasia and a sprained intellect.

Buyer

And must we say the same of the fees you take for imparting your wisdom to young men? Is it clear that the good man alone will make money out of his virtue?

Chrysippos

You grasp the idea. It is not on my own account that I take fees, but for the good of the giver himself. For since one party in a transaction must give and the other receive, I train myself to receive and my pupil to give.

Buyer

It ought to be the other way about. The young man ought to receive, and you, who alone are rich, to give out.

Chrysippos

You are chaffing, fellow; but be careful lest I let fly at you with the apodeiktic syllogism.

Buyer

What are the frightful effects of the weapon?

Chrysippos

Embarrassment, silence, confusion of mind.