Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 7.536

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[536] 536a
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
καὶ πρὸς σωφροσύνην, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ ἀνδρείαν καὶ μεγαλοπρέπειαν καὶ πάντα τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μέρη οὐχ ἥκιστα δεῖ φυλάττειν τὸν νόθον τε καὶ τὸν γνήσιον. ὅταν γάρ τις μὴ ἐπίστηται πάντῃ τὰ τοιαῦτα σκοπεῖν καὶ ἰδιώτης καὶ πόλις, λανθάνουσι χωλοῖς τε καὶ νόθοις χρώμενοι πρὸς ὅτι ἂν τύχωσι τούτων, οἱ μὲν φίλοις, οἱ δὲ ἄρχουσι.
καὶ μάλα, ἔφη, οὕτως ἔχει.
ἡμῖν δή, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα διευλαβητέον· 536b ὡς ἐὰν μὲν ἀρτιμελεῖς τε καὶ ἀρτίφρονας ἐπὶ τοσαύτην μάθησιν καὶ τοσαύτην ἄσκησιν κομίσαντες παιδεύωμεν, ἥ τε δίκη ἡμῖν οὐ μέμψεται αὐτή, τήν τε πόλιν καὶ πολιτείαν σώσομεν, ἀλλοίους δὲ ἄγοντες ἐπὶ ταῦτα τἀναντία πάντα καὶ πράξομεν καὶ φιλοσοφίας ἔτι πλείω γέλωτα καταντλήσομεν.
αἰσχρὸν μεντἂν εἴη, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
πάνυ μὲν οὖν, εἶπον· γελοῖον δʼ ἔγωγε καὶ ἐν τῷ παρόντι τι ἔοικα παθεῖν.
τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη. 536c
ἐπελαθόμην, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι ἐπαίζομεν, καὶ μᾶλλον ἐντεινάμενος εἶπον. λέγων γὰρ ἅμα ἔβλεψα πρὸς φιλοσοφίαν, καὶ ἰδὼν προπεπηλακισμένην ἀναξίως ἀγανακτήσας μοι δοκῶ καὶ ὥσπερ θυμωθεὶς τοῖς αἰτίοις σπουδαιότερον εἰπεῖν ἃ εἶπον.
οὐ μὰ τὸν Δίʼ, ἔφη, οὔκουν ὥς γʼ ἐμοὶ ἀκροατῇ.
ἀλλʼ ὡς ἐμοί, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ῥήτορι. τόδε δὲ μὴ ἐπιλανθανώμεθα, ὅτι ἐν μὲν τῇ προτέρᾳ ἐκλογῇ πρεσβύτας ἐξελέγομεν, 536d ἐν δὲ ταύτῃ οὐκ ἐγχωρήσει· Σόλωνι γὰρ οὐ πειστέον ὡς γηράσκων τις πολλὰ δυνατὸς μανθάνειν, ἀλλʼ ἧττον ἢ τρέχειν, νέων δὲ πάντες οἱ μεγάλοι καὶ οἱ πολλοὶ πόνοι.
ἀνάγκη, ἔφη.
τὰ μὲν τοίνυν λογισμῶν τε καὶ γεωμετριῶν καὶ πάσης τῆς προπαιδείας, ἣν τῆς διαλεκτικῆς δεῖ προπαιδευθῆναι, παισὶν οὖσι χρὴ προβάλλειν, οὐχ ὡς ἐπάναγκες μαθεῖν τὸ σχῆμα τῆς διδαχῆς ποιουμένους.
τί δή; 536e
ὅτι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐδὲν μάθημα μετὰ δουλείας τὸν ἐλεύθερον χρὴ μανθάνειν. οἱ μὲν γὰρ τοῦ σώματος πόνοι βίᾳ πονούμενοι χεῖρον οὐδὲν τὸ σῶμα ἀπεργάζονται, ψυχῇ δὲ βίαιον οὐδὲν ἔμμονον μάθημα.
ἀληθῆ, ἔφη.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 7.536 focus

[536] 536a “By all means,” he said. “And with reference to sobriety,” said I, “and bravery and loftiness of soul¹ and all the parts of virtue,² we must especially be on our guard to distinguish the base-born from the true-born. For when the knowledge necessary to make such discriminations is lacking in individual or state, they unawares employ at random³ for any of these purposes the crippled and base-born natures, as their friends or rulers.” “It is so indeed,” he said. “But we,” I said, “must be on our guard in all such cases, 536b since, if we bring men sound of limb and mind to so great a study and so severe a training, justice herself will have no fault to find⁴ with us, and we shall preserve the state and our polity. But, if we introduce into it the other sort, the outcome will be just the opposite, and we shall pour a still greater flood⁵ of ridicule upon philosophy.” “That would indeed be shameful,” he said. “Most certainly,” said I: “but here again I am making myself a little ridiculous.” “In what way?” 536c “I forgot,” said I, “that we were jesting,⁶ and I spoke with too great intensity.⁷ For, while speaking, I turned my eyes upon philosophy,⁸ and when I saw how she is undeservedly reviled, I was revolted, and, as if in anger, spoke too earnestly to those who are in fault.” “No, by Zeus, not too earnestly for me⁹ as a hearer.” “But too much so for me as a speaker,” I said. “But this we must not forget, that in our former selection we chose old men, but in this one that will not do. For we must not take Solon’s¹⁰ word for it 536d that growing old a man is able to learn many things. He is less able to do that than to run a race. To the young¹¹ belong all heavy and frequent labors.” Necessarily, he said.
“Now, all this study of reckoning and geometry and all the preliminary studies that are indispensable preparation for dialectics must be presented to them while still young, not in the form of compulsory instruction.¹²” “Why so?” Because, said I, 536e “a free soul ought not to pursue any study slavishly; for while bodily labors¹³ performed under constraint do not harm the body, nothing that is learned under compulsion stays with the mind.” True, he said.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

μεγαλοπρέπειαν : ‘highmindedness,’ not (as Jowett) ‘magnificence.’ See VI 486 A note

τὰ τοιαῦτα (“das dazu gehörige” Schneider) is quite general, and means how so-and-so is in respect of the virtues just enumerated: cf. VIII 549 D. The Oxford editors wrongly understand τὰ τοιαῦτα as τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μέρη.

λανθάνουσι κτλ. : ‘they unconsciously use cripples and bastards for any of these services that happen, as friends in the one case, and in the other rulers.’ Schneider explains τούτων as “horum negotiorum, hoc est, aliquam ex his, quae dictae sunt, virtutibus requirentium.” This is perhaps safer than to understand it merely of the services rendered by friends and rulers. In either case cf. for τούτων VIII 543 C note J. and C. have rightly noted that “the subject of τύχωσι is the same with that of λανθάνουσι”: but they are mistaken in referring τούτων to τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μέρη, and in connecting πρός with χωλοῖς τε καὶ νόθοις. It is certain that χρώμενοι is understood with τύχωσι, and, if so, πρός can belong only to χρώμενοι. D. and V. are consistently wrong in the translation of this somewhat perplexing little clause.

ἀρτιμελεῖς κτλ. For ἀρτιμελεῖς cf. 535 A. ἄσκησιν is of course the physical discipline: note the chiasmus.

ἥ τε δίκη κτλ. Cf. VI 487 A where οὐδ’ ἂν ὁ Μῶμος, ἔφη, τό γε τοιοῦτον μέμφαιτο similarly concludes the earlier enumeration of qualities necessary to the philosophic ruler.

καὶ πράξομεν . καί (which some inferior MSS omit) is “paullo insolentius positum, sed ita ut τἀναντία πάντα partim ad civitatis conditionem—partim ad opinionem hominum atque existimationem philosophiae, quam sequi errorem istum oporteat, spectare et utramque contra, quam dictum optandumque sit, casuram esse significet” (Schneider).

γελοῖον takes up γέλωτα just before, hence καί. My extreme προθυμία, says Socrates in effect, was fitted to provoke a smile (cf. VI 506 D).

ἐν τῷ παρόντι . The reference is to 535 C and VI 495 C—496 A. After παρόντι Burnet adds < τι>, needlessly: see on III 388 D.

ἐπαίζομεν . Literature is not life, but ‘noble play’— παγκάλην— παιδιὰν—τοῦ ἐν λόγοις δυναμένου παίζειν ( Phaedr. 276 E . Cf. also X 599 A note). See Hirzel der Dialog I p. 180, where this thoroughly Platonic view is admirably expounded. There is a touch of pathos in Plato's application of it to his own dialogues, recalling to my mind, I know not exactly why, the saying of Isaac Newton about gathering pebbles by the shore, as well as Heraclitus' αἰὼν παῖς ἐστι παίζων πεσσεύων ( Fr. 79 B ywater).

μᾶλλον ἐντεινάμενος . Plato's apology is by no means intended to appease the ‘bald little tinker’ (VI 495 E) and his crew; for he still holds them responsible for the insults levelled at philosophy ( τοῖς αἰτίοις). He is merely apologising, not without a characteristic touch of irony, for an offence against the canons of literary taste. One ought not to turn ‘play’ into earnest, and, as Longinus remarks, κἀν βακχεύμασι νήφειν ἀναγκαῖον ( περὶ ὕφους 16. 4).

πρεσβύτας ἐξελέγομεν . III 412 C. It is quite clear that the προτέρα ἐκλογή is not supplemented but superseded by the provisions now laid down. Cf. VIII 543 D note

γηράσκων κτλ. γηράσκω δ) αἰεὶ πολλὰ διδασκόμενος Solon Fr. 18 B ergk. The line is quoted in [ Erast.] 133 C and alluded to again in Lach. 188 B , 189 A.

ἧττον . ἔτι ἧττον, which Herwerden proposes, is no improvement, but rather the reverse. Plato may be alluding to some proverbial saying, as D. and V. appear to believe, translating thus: “an old man can sooner run than learn.”

νέων δὲ κτλ. Cf. Eur. I. T. 122 μόχθος γὰρ οὐδεὶς τοῖς νέοις σκῆψιν φέρει and Theaet. 146 B , Symp. 175 E .

παισὶν οὖσι κτλ. This preliminary survey is clearly meant to take place in the years during which ‘Music’ and Gymnastic are chiefly cultivated. See Nettleship Lect. and Rem. II p. 290.

οὐχ ὡς ἐπάναγκες κτλ. We must bear in mind throughout the whole of this subject that Plato is legislating for a select class who naturally love labour and truth. They alone are nature's freemen and must be treated as such in their education, but the compulsory method may be necessary, Plato would say, in order to educate others, so far as others can be educated at all. With the general sense cf. Phaedr. 240 C and Theogn. 472 πᾶν γὰρ ἀναγκαῖον χρῆμ’ ἀνιηρὸν ἔφυ.

παίζοντας : with a play on παῖδας: cf. infra VIII 545 E and ἀτεχνῶς παισὶν—μετὰ παιδιᾶς—μανθάνειν in Laws 819 B, a passage in which the general idea is that play should be study, whereas here it is that study should be play.

Plato Republic 7.536

ed. John Burnet

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