Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 6.497

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[497] 497a
ἀλλά τοι, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὐ τὰ ἐλάχιστα ἂν διαπραξάμενος ἀπαλλάττοιτο.
οὐδέ γε, εἶπον, τὰ μέγιστα, μὴ τυχὼν πολιτείας προσηκούσης· ἐν γὰρ προσηκούσῃ αὐτός τε μᾶλλον αὐξήσεται καὶ μετὰ τῶν ἰδίων τὰ κοινὰ σώσει.
τὸ μὲν οὖν τῆς φιλοσοφίας ὧν ἕνεκα διαβολὴν εἴληφεν καὶ ὅτι οὐ δικαίως, ἐμοὶ μὲν δοκεῖ μετρίως εἰρῆσθαι, εἰ μὴ ἔτʼ ἄλλο λέγεις τι σύ.
ἀλλʼ οὐδέν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἔτι λέγω περὶ τούτου· ἀλλὰ τὴν προσήκουσαν αὐτῇ τίνα τῶν νῦν λέγεις πολιτειῶν; 497b
οὐδʼ ἡντινοῦν, εἶπον, ἀλλὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἐπαιτιῶμαι, μηδεμίαν ἀξίαν εἶναι τῶν νῦν κατάστασιν πόλεως φιλοσόφου φύσεως· διὸ καὶ στρέφεσθαί τε καὶ ἀλλοιοῦσθαι αὐτήν, ὥσπερ ξενικὸν σπέρμα ἐν γῇ ἄλλῃ σπειρόμενον ἐξίτηλον εἰς τὸ ἐπιχώριον φιλεῖ κρατούμενον ἰέναι, οὕτω καὶ τοῦτο τὸ γένος νῦν μὲν οὐκ ἴσχειν τὴν αὑτοῦ δύναμιν, ἀλλʼ εἰς ἀλλότριον ἦθος ἐκπίπτειν· εἰ δὲ λήψεται τὴν ἀρίστην πολιτείαν, ὥσπερ 497c καὶ αὐτὸ ἄριστόν ἐστιν, τότε δηλώσει ὅτι τοῦτο μὲν τῷ ὄντι θεῖον ἦν, τὰ δὲ ἄλλα ἀνθρώπινα, τά τε τῶν φύσεων καὶ τῶν ἐπιτηδευμάτων. δῆλος δὴ οὖν εἶ ὅτι μετὰ τοῦτο ἐρήσῃ τίς αὕτη ἡ πολιτεία.
οὐκ ἔγνως, ἔφη· οὐ γὰρ τοῦτο ἔμελλον, ἀλλʼ εἰ αὑτὴ ἣν ἡμεῖς διεληλύθαμεν οἰκίζοντες τὴν πόλιν ἢ ἄλλη.
τὰ μὲν ἄλλα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, αὕτη· τοῦτο δὲ αὐτὸ ἐρρήθη μὲν καὶ τότε, ὅτι δεήσοι τι ἀεὶ ἐνεῖναι ἐν τῇ πόλει λόγον 497d ἔχον τῆς πολιτείας τὸν αὐτὸν ὅνπερ καὶ σὺ ὁ νομοθέτης ἔχων τοὺς νόμους ἐτίθεις.
ἐρρήθη γάρ, ἔφη.
ἀλλʼ οὐχ ἱκανῶς, εἶπον, ἐδηλώθη, φόβῳ ὧν ὑμεῖς ἀντιλαμβανόμενοι δεδηλώκατε μακρὰν καὶ χαλεπὴν αὐτοῦ τὴν ἀπόδειξιν· ἐπεὶ καὶ τὸ λοιπὸν οὐ πάντων ῥᾷστον διελθεῖν.
τὸ ποῖον;
τίνα τρόπον μεταχειριζομένη πόλις φιλοσοφίαν οὐ διολεῖται. τὰ γὰρ δὴ μεγάλα πάντα ἐπισφαλῆ, καὶ τὸ λεγόμενον τὰ καλὰ τῷ ὄντι χαλεπά. 497e
ἀλλʼ ὅμως, ἔφη, λαβέτω τέλος ἡ ἀπόδειξις τούτου φανεροῦ γενομένου.
οὐ τὸ μὴ βούλεσθαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀλλʼ εἴπερ, τὸ μὴ δύνασθαι διακωλύσει· παρὼν δὲ τήν γʼ ἐμὴν προθυμίαν εἴσῃ. σκόπει δὲ καὶ νῦν ὡς προθύμως καὶ παρακινδυνευτικῶς μέλλω λέγειν, ὅτι τοὐναντίον ἢ νῦν δεῖ τοῦ ἐπιτηδεύματος τούτου πόλιν ἅπτεσθαι.
πῶς;

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 6.497 focus

[497] Well, he said, that is no very slight thing 497a to have achieved before taking his departure. He would not have accomplished any very great thing either,¹ I replied, if it were not his fortune to live in a state adapted to his nature. In such a state only will he himself rather attain his full stature² and together with his own preserve the common weal.
The causes and the injustice of the calumniation of philosophy, I think, have been fairly set forth, unless you have something to add.³ No, he said, I have nothing further to offer on that point. But which of our present governments do you think is suitable for philosophy? 497b None whatever, I said; but the very ground of my complaint is that no polity⁴ of today is worthy of the philosophic nature. This is just the cause of its perversion and alteration; as a foreign seed sown in an alien soil is wont to be overcome and die out⁵ into the native growth,⁶ so this kind does not preserve its own quality but falls away and degenerates into an alien type. But if ever 497c it finds the best polity as it itself is the best, then will it be apparent⁷ that this was in truth divine and all the others human in their natures and practices. Obviously then you are next, going to ask what is this best form of government. Wrong, he said⁸ I was going to ask not that but whether it is this one that we have described in our establishment of a state or another. In other respects it is this one, said I; but there is one special further point that we mentioned even then, namely that there would always have to be resident in such a state an element 497d having the same conception of its constitution that you the lawgiver had in framing its laws.⁹ That was said, he replied. But it was not sufficiently explained, I said, from fear of those objections on your part which have shown that the demonstration of it is long and difficult. And apart from that the remainder of the exposition is by no means easy.¹⁰ Just what do you mean? The manner in which a state that occupies itself with philosophy can escape destruction. For all great things are precarious and, as the proverb truly says, fine things are hard.¹¹ All the same, 497e he said, our exposition must be completed by making this plain. It will be no lack of will, I said, but if anything,¹² a lack of ability, that would prevent that. But you shall observe for yourself my zeal. And note again how zealously and recklessly I am prepared to say that the state ought to take up this pursuit in just the reverse of our present fashion.¹³ In what way?

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

προσηκούσης . The only city suited to the philosophic nature is Plato's: cf. IX 592 A.

κατάστασιν πόλεως is treated as a single noun: cf. πόλεως διοίκησις in Prot. 319 D and Pol. 296 E .

ὥσπερ ‐‐ ἐκπίπτειν explains and amplifies στρέφεσθαί τε καὶ ἀλλοιοῦσθαι. Asyndeton is regular in such cases, and Stephanus ought not to have proposed the insertion of καί before ὥσπερ: cf. IV 432 D, VIII 557 C and Prot. 311 E , where more illustrations are cited in my note. Stallbaum's punctuation is here, I think, preferable to that of Schneider, who prints only a comma before ὥσπερ.

εἰς τὸ ἐπιχώριον : as though ‘a foreign geranium, allowed to run wild in England’ were to ‘degenerate into one of the English wild geraniums.’ The illustration is due to Bosanquet. Plato's botanical error, such as it is, does not affect the argument.

ἦθος is read by Π as well as Α. The majority of MSS read εἶδος, which was accepted till Schneider restored the better and more authoritative reading.

δηλώσει =‘experience will shew’ is idiomatic. See Blaydes on Ar. Frogs 1261 .

ἦν . The past does not exclude the present: cf. IV 436 C note

τίς ‐‐ πολιτεία : i.e. what the best constitution is. Adimantus was about to ask whether the ἀρίστη πολιτεία is not the one which they have described. The reply is yes, provided that the position and status of the Rulers is made clearer. As it stands it is not the best: cf. VIII 543 E καλλίω ἔτι ἔχων (imperfect participle) εἰπεῖν πόλιν τε καὶ ἄνδρα (the Philosopher's City and the Philosopher), where see note.

ὅτι δεήσοι κτλ. : ‘that there would always have to be present in the city a certain factor possessed of a reasoned theory of the constitution, identical with that possessed by you, the legislator, when you made the laws.’ The rulers must understand the constitution and not merely accept it on the legislator's authority, if the spirit of the original legislator is to survive his death. ὀρθὴ δόξα is not enough; in order to fill the place of the founder of the city they require ἐπιστήμη. Plato confesses that he did not make this clear enough before ( οὐχ ἱκανῶς ἐδηλώθη), and his confession is most true. In one passage (IV 429 C note), indeed, he seems expressly to imply that the Rulers do not fill the legislator's shoes. But there are also some hints or traces of the later view: see on III 414 A, IV 423 E (to which, perhaps, ἐρρήθη is intended to refer, although the reference is hardly justified), and 442 C. Cf. 502 D, 503 A, 504 D notes

ὧν κτλ. : i.e. ἐκείνων ὧν κτλ. The literal translation is ‘through dread of the topics to which cleaving you have shewn that the demonstration thereof is long and difficult.’ (So also Schneider.) ἀντιλαμβανόμενοι (the opposite of ἀφιέναι as used in V 449 B and infra 504 E) refers to Adimantus' and the others' resolute determination not to let Socrates slur over the questions relating to women and children (V 449 B ff.) and to the possibility of realising the perfect city (471 C ff.). Cf. infra 505 A. φόβῳ is explained by V 450 C ff., 457 C, 473 E. J. and C. take ὧν as “ ἐκείνων ἅ (cognate accusative),” understanding ἀντιλαμβανόμενοι as ‘objecting to’ or ‘attacking,’ but no objections were made by Glauco and Adimantus. They merely asked for further explanation, and were in fact favourably disposed rather than otherwise (V 450 D, 451 B). Herwerden's conjecture ὡς for ὧν refutes itself.

αὐτοῦ (like the subject of ἐδηλώθη) refers to the position of the Rulers in Plato's city—with everything that it involves, including the Community of wives and children, the Philosopher-king and all the leading topics discussed in V—VII; and τὸ λοιπόν is what remains of this topic —the rest of VI and VII in fact.

πάντως . Bekker's πάντων (cf. Laws 779 E οὐ πάντων εὐκολώτατον) is a neat emendation, which Baiter and others have accepted. But οὐ πάντως ῥᾷστον ‘not in every respect quite easy’ (with the usual Greek litotes), is quite unobjectionable, as Schneider points out, and the confusion of ς and ν is rare.

τὸ λεγόμενον κτλ. D. and V. wrongly make τῷ ὄντι part of the proverb. Translate ‘and it is true, as the proverb says, that beautiful things are hard.’ Cf. IV 435 C and (for τῷ ὄντι) VIII 563 E.

οἱ καὶ ἁπτόμενοι κτλ. καί =‘at all.’ Cf. ἐὰν καὶ—ἐθέλωσιν 498 A.

Plato Republic 6.497

ed. John Burnet

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