Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 5.471

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[471] 471a
οὐκοῦν τὴν πρὸς τοὺς Ἕλληνας διαφοράν, ὡς οἰκείους, στάσιν ἡγήσονται καὶ οὐδὲ ὀνομάσουσιν πόλεμον;
οὐ γάρ.
καὶ ὡς διαλλαγησόμενοι ἄρα διοίσονται;
πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
εὐμενῶς δὴ σωφρονιοῦσιν, οὐκ ἐπὶ δουλείᾳ κολάζοντες οὐδʼ ἐπʼ ὀλέθρῳ, σωφρονισταὶ ὄντες, οὐ πολέμιοι.
οὕτως, ἔφη.
οὐδʼ ἄρα τὴν Ἑλλάδα Ἕλληνες ὄντες κεροῦσιν, οὐδὲ οἰκήσεις ἐμπρήσουσιν, οὐδὲ ὁμολογήσουσιν ἐν ἑκάστῃ πόλει πάντας ἐχθροὺς αὑτοῖς εἶναι, καὶ ἄνδρας καὶ γυναῖκας καὶ παῖδας, ἀλλʼ ὀλίγους ἀεὶ ἐχθροὺς τοὺς αἰτίους τῆς διαφορᾶς. 471b καὶ διὰ ταῦτα πάντα οὔτε τὴν γῆν ἐθελήσουσιν κείρειν αὐτῶν, ὡς φίλων τῶν πολλῶν, οὔτε οἰκίας ἀνατρέπειν, ἀλλὰ μέχρι τούτου ποιήσονται τὴν διαφοράν, μέχρι οὗ ἂν οἱ αἴτιοι ἀναγκασθῶσιν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀναιτίων ἀλγούντων δοῦναι δίκην.
ἐγὼ μέν, ἔφη, ὁμολογῶ οὕτω δεῖν πρὸς τοὺς ἐναντίους τοὺς ἡμετέρους πολίτας προσφέρεσθαι· πρὸς δὲ τοὺς βαρβάρους, ὡς νῦν οἱ Ἕλληνες πρὸς ἀλλήλους.
τιθῶμεν δὴ καὶ τοῦτον τὸν νόμον τοῖς φύλαξι, μήτε γῆν 471c τέμνειν μήτε οἰκίας ἐμπιμπράναι;
θῶμεν, ἔφη, καὶ ἔχειν γε καλῶς ταῦτά τε καὶ τὰ πρόσθεν.
ἀλλὰ γάρ μοι δοκεῖς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐάν τίς σοι τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐπιτρέπῃ λέγειν, οὐδέποτε μνησθήσεσθαι ὃ ἐν τῷ πρόσθεν παρωσάμενος πάντα ταῦτα εἴρηκας, τὸ ὡς δυνατὴ αὕτη ἡ πολιτεία γενέσθαι καὶ τίνα τρόπον ποτὲ δυνατή· ἐπεὶ ὅτι γε, εἰ γένοιτο, πάντʼ ἂν εἴη ἀγαθὰ πόλει ᾗ γένοιτο, καὶ ἃ σὺ παραλείπεις ἐγὼ λέγω, ὅτι καὶ τοῖς πολεμίοις 471d ἄριστʼ ἂν μάχοιντο τῷ ἥκιστα ἀπολείπειν ἀλλήλους, γιγνώσκοντές τε καὶ ἀνακαλοῦντες ταῦτα τὰ ὀνόματα ἑαυτούς, ἀδελφούς, πατέρας, ὑεῖς· εἰ δὲ καὶ τὸ θῆλυ συστρατεύοιτο, εἴτε καὶ ἐν τῇ αὐτῇ τάξει εἴτε καὶ ὄπισθεν ἐπιτεταγμένον, φόβων τε ἕνεκα τοῖς ἐχθροῖς καὶ εἴ ποτέ τις ἀνάγκη βοηθείας γένοιτο, οἶδʼ ὅτι ταύτῃ πάντῃ ἄμαχοι ἂν εἶεν· καὶ οἴκοι γε ἃ παραλείπεται ἀγαθά, ὅσα ἂν εἴη αὐτοῖς, ὁρῶ. 471e ἀλλʼ ὡς ἐμοῦ ὁμολογοῦντος πάντα ταῦτα ὅτι εἴη ἂν καὶ ἄλλα γε μυρία, εἰ γένοιτο ἡ πολιτεία αὕτη, μηκέτι πλείω περὶ αὐτῆς λέγε, ἀλλὰ τοῦτο αὐτὸ ἤδη πειρώμεθα ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς πείθειν, ὡς δυνατὸν καὶ ᾗ δυνατόν, τὰ δʼ ἄλλα χαίρειν ἐῶμεν.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 5.471 focus

[471] Will they not then regard any difference with Greeks 471a who are their own people as a form of faction and refuse even to speak of it as war? Most certainly. And they will conduct their quarrels always looking forward to a reconciliation? By all means. They will correct them, then, for their own good, not chastising them with a view to their enslavement¹ or their destruction, but acting as correctors, not as enemies. They will, he said. They will not, being Greeks, ravage Greek territory nor burn habitations, and they will not admit that in any city all the population are their enemies, men, women and children, but will say that only a few at any time are their foes,² 471b those, namely, who are to blame for the quarrel. And on all these considerations they will not be willing to lay waste the soil, since the majority are their friends, nor to destroy the houses, but will carry the conflict only to the point of compelling the guilty to do justice by the pressure of the suffering of the innocent. I, he said, agree that our citizens ought to deal with their Greek opponents on this wise, while treating barbarians as Greeks now treat Greeks. Shall we lay down this law also, then, 471c for our guardians that they are not to lay waste the land or burn the houses? Let us so decree, he said, and assume that this and our preceding prescriptions are right.
But³ I fear, Socrates,that if you are allowed to go on in this fashion, you will never get to speak of the matter you put aside in order to say all this, namely, the possibility of such a polity coming into existence, and the way in which it could be brought to pass. I too am ready to admit that if it could be realized everything would be lovely⁴ for the state that had it, and I will add what you passed by, that they would also be 471d most successful in war because they would be least likely to desert one another, knowing and addressing each other by the names of brothers, fathers, sons. And if the females should also join in their campaigns, whether in the ranks or marshalled behind to intimidate the enemy,⁵ or as reserves in case of need, I recognize that all this too would make them irresistible. And at home, also, I observe all the benefits that you omit to mention. But, taking it for granted that I concede 471e these and countless other advantages, consequent on the realization of this polity, don’t labor that point further; but let us at once proceed to try to convince ourselves of just this, that it is possible and how it is possible, 472a dismissing everything else.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

οὐδὲ ὀνομάσσυσιν : much less consider it so.

σωφρονιοῦσιν . The word σωφρονίζω (‘make σώφρων,’ i.e. ‘chastise’) implies the remedial view of punishment: see on II 380 B.

οὐ πολέμιοι . A few inferior MSS read ὡς οὐ πολέμιοι, and ὡς appears also in the margin of A. Campbell suggests <καὶ> οὐ πολέμιοι, Förster <ὡς> σωφρονισταί; but neither suggestion is nearly so expressive and good as the reading of the best MSS.

αὑτοῖς . The ambiguity in αὑτοῖς can mislead nobody, and αὐτοῖς (Hartman, with A etc.) would be very unpleasing. In such cases the authority of Plato's MSS is nought. The behaviour of Athens in connexion with the Mitylenean revolt is a conspicuous example of the inhumanity which Plato here condemns: see Thuc. III 36 ff.

ἀλγούντων . “Significatur necessitas innocentibus quoque damnum inferendi, quo nocentes punire et ad pacem adigere cogantur” Schneider.

τοὺς ἐναντίους . “Graecos adversarios vocat, non hostes” Stallbaum. q has Ἕλληνας for ἐναντίους—an obvious ‘interpretamentum.’

πρὸς δὲ ‐‐ ἀλλήλους . A bitter commentary on the foreign policy of Greek cities. The ‘natural’ relations between Greece and Barbary had been reversed: not only did Greeks treat Greeks as enemies, but they had begun to treat barbarians as friends. Christ ( Pl. Stud. pp. 37—39) supposes that Plato wrote this passage in 374, when Plataea was destroyed by Thebes, and the surviving inhabitants fled to Athens ( Xen. Hell. VI 3. 1 , Isocr. Plat. 1 ff.). The same view is held by Hirmer Entst. u. Komp. etc. p. 662. Plato's rebuke would have been equally or even more telling in 386, when Greece was exhausted by the Corinthian war, and friendship with the ‘natural enemy’ had forced the peace of Antalcidas upon the Greeks, to the bitter grief and shame of patriots: cf. Isocr. Paneg. 120, 121. In any case νῦν should no doubt be referred to the time when Plato wrote these words, and not to the date of action of the dialogue. See also Introd. § 4.

ὡς δυνατή . In a certain sense, this has already been proved, for the city is κατὰ φύσιν: cf. 456 C, 466 D. We have, however, still to shew that the harmony with nature can be attained, and this is what Plato proceeds to do.

ἐπεὶ ὅτι γε κτλ. We should expect ὁμολογῶ after ᾗ γένοιτο, but anacolutha after ὅτι are so frequent that something of the sort may be mentally supplied: cf. I 352 B, V 465 A notes Richards would insert ὁμολογῶ in the text. I formerly proposed καὶ ἐγὼ λέγω, <καὶ> ἃ σὺ παραλείπεις ὅτι κτλ., ‘I too assert’ (sc. no less than you), ‘and also what you omit, that’ etc., but now acquiesce in the anacoluthon.

φόβων ‐‐ ἐχθροῖς . Cf. Laws 806 B.

Plato Republic 5.471

ed. John Burnet

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