Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 5.463

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[463] 463a
τί οὖν; ἔστι μέν που καὶ ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις πόλεσιν ἄρχοντές τε καὶ δῆμος, ἔστι δὲ καὶ ἐν ταύτῃ;
ἔστι.
πολίτας μὲν δὴ πάντες οὗτοι ἀλλήλους προσεροῦσι;
πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ἀλλὰ πρὸς τῷ πολίτας τί ὁ ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις δῆμος τοὺς ἄρχοντας προσαγορεύει;
ἐν μὲν ταῖς πολλαῖς δεσπότας, ἐν δὲ ταῖς δημοκρατουμέναις αὐτὸ τοὔνομα τοῦτο, ἄρχοντας.
τί δʼ ὁ ἐν τῇ ἡμετέρᾳ δῆμος; πρὸς τῷ πολίτας τί τοὺς ἄρχοντάς φησιν εἶναι; 463b
σωτῆράς τε καὶ ἐπικούρους, ἔφη.
τί δʼ οὗτοι τὸν δῆμον;
μισθοδότας τε καὶ τροφέας.
οἱ δʼ ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις ἄρχοντες τοὺς δήμους;
δούλους, ἔφη.
τί δʼ οἱ ἄρχοντες ἀλλήλους;
συνάρχοντας, ἔφη.
τί δʼ οἱ ἡμέτεροι;
συμφύλακας.
ἔχεις οὖν εἰπεῖν τῶν ἀρχόντων τῶν ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις πόλεσιν, εἴ τίς τινα ἔχει προσειπεῖν τῶν συναρχόντων τὸν μὲν ὡς οἰκεῖον, τὸν δʼ ὡς ἀλλότριον;
καὶ πολλούς γε.
οὐκοῦν τὸν μὲν οἰκεῖον ὡς ἑαυτοῦ νομίζει τε καὶ λέγει, 463c τὸν δʼ ἀλλότριον ὡς οὐχ ἑαυτοῦ;
οὕτω.
τί δὲ οἱ παρὰ σοὶ φύλακες; ἔσθʼ ὅστις αὐτῶν ἔχοι ἂν τῶν συμφυλάκων νομίσαι τινὰ ἢ προσειπεῖν ὡς ἀλλότριον;
οὐδαμῶς, ἔφη· παντὶ γὰρ ᾧ ἂν ἐντυγχάνῃ, ἢ ὡς ἀδελφῷ ἢ ὡς ἀδελφῇ ἢ ὡς πατρὶ ἢ ὡς μητρὶ ἢ ὑεῖ ἢ θυγατρὶ ἢ τούτων ἐκγόνοις ἢ προγόνοις νομιεῖ ἐντυγχάνειν.
κάλλιστα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, λέγεις, ἀλλʼ ἔτι καὶ τόδε εἰπέ· πότερον αὐτοῖς τὰ ὀνόματα μόνον οἰκεῖα νομοθετήσεις, ἢ 463d καὶ τὰς πράξεις πάσας κατὰ τὰ ὀνόματα πράττειν, περί τε τοὺς πατέρας, ὅσα νόμος περὶ πατέρας αἰδοῦς τε πέρι καὶ κηδεμονίας καὶ τοῦ ὑπήκοον δεῖν εἶναι τῶν γονέων, ἢ μήτε πρὸς θεῶν μήτε πρὸς ἀνθρώπων αὐτῷ ἄμεινον ἔσεσθαι, ὡς οὔτε ὅσια οὔτε δίκαια πράττοντος ἄν, εἰ ἄλλα πράττοι ἢ ταῦτα; αὗταί σοι ἢ ἄλλαι φῆμαι ἐξ ἁπάντων τῶν πολιτῶν ὑμνήσουσιν εὐθὺς περὶ τὰ τῶν παίδων ὦτα καὶ περὶ πατέρων, οὓς ἂν αὐτοῖς τις ἀποφήνῃ, καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων συγγενῶν; 463e
αὗται, ἔφη· γελοῖον γὰρ ἂν εἴη εἰ ἄνευ ἔργων οἰκεῖα ὀνόματα διὰ τῶν στομάτων μόνον φθέγγοιντο.
πασῶν ἄρα πόλεων μάλιστα ἐν αὐτῇ συμφωνήσουσιν ἑνός τινος ἢ εὖ ἢ κακῶς πράττοντος ὃ νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν τὸ ῥῆμα, τὸ ὅτι τὸ ἐμὸν εὖ πράττει ἢ ὅτι τὸ ἐμὸν κακῶς.
ἀληθέστατα αὖ, ἦ δʼ ὅς.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 5.463 focus

[463] Well, then, 463a there are to be found in other cities rulers and the people as in it, are there not? There are. Will not all these address one another as fellow-citizens? Of course. But in addition to citizens, what does the people in other states call its rulers. In most cities, masters. In democratic cities, just this, rulers. But what of the people in our city. In addition to citizens, 463b what do they call their rulers? Saviors and helpers, he said. And what term do these apply to the people? Payers of their wage and supporters. And how do the rulers in other states denominate the populace? Slaves, he said. And how do the rulers describe one another? Co-rulers, he said. And ours? Co-guardians. Can you tell me whether any of the rulers in other states would speak of some of their co-rulers as belonging and others as outsiders? Yes, many would. And such a one thinks and speaks of the one that belongs as his own, doesn’t he, and of the outsider as not his own? That is so. But what of your guardians. Could any of them think or speak of 463c his co-guardian as an outsider? By no means, he said; for no matter whom he meets, he will feel that he is meeting a brother, a sister, a father, a mother, a son, a daughter, or the offspring or forebears of these. Excellent, said I; but tell me this further, 463d will it be merely the names¹ of this kinship that you have prescribed for them or must all their actions conform to the names in all customary observance toward fathers and in awe and care and obedience for parents, if they look for the favor² of either gods or men, since any other behaviour would be neither just nor pious? Shall these be the unanimous oracular voices that they hear from all the people, or shall some other kind of teaching beset³ the ears of your children from their birth, both concerning⁴ what is due to those who are pointed out as their fathers 463e and to their other kin? These, he said; for it would be absurd for them merely to pronounce with their lips the names of kinship without the deeds. Then, in this city more than in any other, when one citizen fares well or ill, men will pronounce in unison the word of which we spoke: It is mine that does well; it is mine that does ill. That is most true, he said.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

δεσπότας . Demosthenes remarks that the subjects in an oligarchy are ‘cowards and slaves’ ( ἄνανδροι καὶ δοῦλοι). See in Timocr. 75 and Whibley Gk. Oligarchies p. 143.

ἄρχοντας . Plato is thinking of the Athenian Archons. The object of this chapter, which seems at first sight somewhat loosely constructed, is to prove that συμπάθεια prevails to a unique extent in the Platonic city. The appellations σωτῆρες and ἐπίκουροι, on the one hand, and μισθοδόται and τροφεῖς on the other, involve a greater degree of interdependence than is expressed by the corresponding names in other cities. The archons too are more than fellow-rulers: they are fellow guardians, their official designation among one another serving continually to remind them of their duty to the lower classes. Among themselves they use the terms of family relationship, and with these their actions correspond. Thus the distinction between meum and tuum is more nearly obliterated than in any other city. Everything is meum.

ἐπικούρους . The official designation of the second order is applied by the people to the ruling class as a whole. They are expected to look upon the ἐπίκουροι as ‘helpers of the people’ rather than as the rulers' auxiliaries, although it is the latter function which gave them their name (III 414 B). This is clear from σωτῆράς τε καὶ ἐπικούρους, both of which epithets are suggestive of protecting deities. See also on 464 B.

παντὶ γὰρ ‐‐ ἐντυγχάνειν . A slight exaggeration: see 461 D, E notes Cf. Hdt. IV 104 ἐπίκοινον δὲ τῶν γυναικῶν τὴν μῖξιν ποιεῦνται ( οἱ Ἀγάθυρσοι), ἵνα κασίγνητοί τε ἀλλήλων ἔωσι καὶ οἰκήιοι ἐόντες πάντες μήτε φθόνῳ μήτε ἔχθει χρέωνται ἐς ἀλλήλους and ib. 180 ad fin. Similar motives for domestic communism are mentioned by Diod. Sic. II 58. See also, for other traces, whether real or legendary, of community of wives and children in antiquity Xanthus Fr. 28, Ephorus Fr. 76 and Theopompus Fr. 222 (in Müller Frag. Hist. Gr. Vol. I), together with Arist. Pol. B 3. 1262^{a} 19.

περί τε κτλ. τε is ἀνακόλουθον: we should expect καὶ περὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ξυγγενεῖς to follow. Instead, we have a change of construction, and καὶ περὶ πατέρων—καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ξυγγενῶν (line 27). Cf. II 373 B note ἤ=‘alioquin,’ as often after a verb of obligation (here δεῖν): cf. VI 489 E, 503 A.

νόμος : sc. ἔστι πράττειν.

αὐτῷ : though αὐτοῖς in C: cf. I 347 A note

φῆμαι . See on III 415 D. φήμη is the half-personified vox populi, vox Dei: cf. Nägelsbach Nachhom. Theol. p. 165. It is the quasi-personification of φῆμαι which accounts for the active ὑμνήσουσιν (‘will sing in the ears of’ etc.): cf. IX 573 A περὶ αὐτὸν βομβοῦσαι.

ὃ ‐‐ ῥῆμα is the object of ξυμφωνήσουσιν (Schneider), just as in IV 432 A ταὐτόν depends upon ξυνᾴδοντας. Aristotle's criticism deserves to be quoted ( Pol. B 3. 1262^{a} 1 ff.) οὕτως ἕκαστος ‘ἐμὸσ’ λέγει τὸν εὖ πράττοντα τῶν πολιτῶν ἢ κακῶς, ὁπόστος τυγχάνει τὸν ἀριθμὸν ὤν, οἷον ‘ἐμὸς ἢ τοῦ δεῖνος,’ τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον λέγων καθ’ ἕκαστον τῶν χιλίων, ἢ ὅσων ἡ πόλις ἐστί, καὶ τοῦτο διστάζων· ἄδηλον γὰρ ᾧ συνέβη γενέσθαι τέκνον ἢ σωθῆναι γενόμενον. There is a far deeper truth in Plato's saying than in Aristotle's animadversions thereupon, and “das schöne Wort, dass alle dasselbe mein nennen sollen, hat es nicht verdient, von Aristoteles mit logischen Regeln gehetzt zu werden. Die Geschichte hat überall wo eine erhabene Idee eine Gruppe von Menschen so durchdringen sollte, dass der Wille jedes Einzelnen nur auf dieses Gemeinsame gerichtet sei, dem platonischen Gedanken im Prinzipe Recht gegeben” (Nohle Die Statslehre Platos etc. p. 133). See also on 457 B ff.

Plato Republic 5.463

ed. John Burnet

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