Plato Republic 5.452

μουσικὴ μέν . The particle μέν “Latino atqui non multo debilius” (Schneider, comparing I 339 B and III 412 C ὅτι μὲν πρεσβυτέρους τοὺς ἄρχοντας δεῖ εἶναι—δῆλον). Richards conjectures μήν, which would certainly be more usual (cf. 465 B): but no change is necessary. Although the position of τε (which a few inferior MSS omit) is irregular, we ought not to read γε: cf. infra 465 E note, and (with Schneider) Laws 800 A, 966 A ( ἢ καὶ ὅπως ἕν τε καὶ ὅπῃ). In these cases τε suffers hyperbaton, being attracted forward by καί. The reverse kind of hyperbaton is more usual with this word: see Prot. 316 D , with my note ad loc. Here it would be awkward to place τε after either μουσική or μέν. For ἐδόθη Richards proposes ἀπεδόθη, to correspond with ἀποδιδῷς above; but cf. δοτέον infra 457 A and see on I 336 E.

παρὰ τὸ ἔθος : ‘contra consuetudinem,’ not ‘respectu consuetudinis’ as Hartman thinks. The phrase specifies the particular variety of γελοῖα intended by Plato: ‘many ludicrous breaches of etiquette.’ It is not quite easy (with J. and C.) to understand πραττόμενα.

πράξεται . q has πεπράξεται, which is tempting, and may be right; but, as Schneider points out, ‘si peragentur’ is somewhat more appropriate than ‘si peracta fuerint.’ πράξεται as passive seems to occur only here in Attic.

ἤδη = demum adds emphasis to ἀλλὰ καί. We may translate: ‘but positively also the older women.’ On this use of ἤδη (‘now that we have reached this point’) and kindred words see Cope Aristotle's Rhetoric Vol. I pp. 13 ff. J. and C. (with other editors) suppose a hyperbaton for τὰς ἤδη πρεσβυτέρας (which Herwerden would actually read): but the hyperbaton is harsh, and no parallel has yet been adduced. The rules laid down by Plato in this passage are an exaggeration of Spartan usage: cf. Plut. Lyc. 14 and the passages cited by Paley on Eur. Androm. 596 ff. Σπαρτιάδων —αἳ ξὺν νέοισιν ἐξερημοῦσαι δόμους | γυμνοῖσι μηροῖς καὶ πέπλοις ἀνειμένοις | δρόμους παλαίστρας τ’ οὐκ ἀνασχέτους ἐμοὶ | κοινὰς ἔχουσι, and by Blaydes on Ar. Lys. 82 : cf. also Laws 813 E ff., 833 C ff. and infra 457 A. The words ὅταν ῥυσοὶ— φιλογυμναστῶσιν are a characteristically Hellenic touch: cf. Theaet. 162 B .

τῶν χαριέντων . It is tempting to see in this an allusion to the author of the Ecclesiazusae (with Krohn Pl. St. p. 81 and Chiappelli Riv. di Filol. XI p. 198). If —with the majority of modern critics— we hold that the Ecclesiazusae is earlier than Book V, and if we consider the play as at least in some measure directed against theories on communism and the position of women with which the Socratic school sympathised, it is easy to interpret Plato here as addressing a rebuke to the comic stage in the form of a further challenge. In any case, however, the words οὐ φοβητέον—ὀχήσεις are not a vaticinium ex eventu, for the Ecclesiazusae does not touch on any of the points specifically mentioned here. See also on 452 D, 455 A, 457 B, 464 B, and 473 E f. In each of these passages there is some prima facie ground for suspecting a personal or polemical motive of some kind. See on the whole subject App. I.

τὰ αὑτῶν πράττειν : i.e. παίζειν. Herwerden's conjecture τὰ τοιαῦτα παίζειν is both needless and inelegant.

οὐ πολὺς χρόνος κτλ. Stallbaum cites Hdt. I 10 παρὰ γὰρ τοῖσι Λυδοῖσι, σχεδὸν δὲ καὶ παρὰ τοῖσι ἄλλοισι βαρβάροισι, καὶ ἄνδρα ὀφθῆναι γυμνὸν ἐς αἰσχύνην μεγάλην φέρει, and Thuc. I 6 ἐγυμνώθησάν τε πρῶτοι ( Λακεδαιμόνιοι ) κτλ.

γυμνασίων is used in its strict etymological sense of γυμνοὶ ἀγῶνες: we ought not to insert γυμνῶν (with Richards) or τοιούτων (with Herwerden) before γυμνασίων.

πρῶτοι ‐‐ Κρῆτες . Plato contradicts Thucydides l.c. Cf. [ Minos] 318 D, where Spartan institutions are derived from Crete, and see Hermann-Thumser Gr. Staatsalt. p. 141 notes

καὶ κτλ. καί begins the apodosis: ‘then too’ etc. The general idea is that when experience proved that it was better to take exercise in a nude condition, nudity also ceased to be ludicrous. Plato thus prepares the way for the identification to be presently made (see next note). The particle δή (‘forsooth’) hints that the eye is less trustworthy than the reason; and the contrast is further accentuated by the somewhat artificial balance between ἐν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς and ἐν τοῖς λόγοις. D. and V. wrongly make the apodosis begin with καὶ τοῦτο (where τοῦτο is of course nominative).

μάταιος κτλ. I have (with the Oxford editors) retained the text of A. It at least affords an intelligible sense, and none of the numerous variants or emendations is at all convincing. The general drift of the passage is clear enough. Nothing is γελοῖον except what is κακόν ( μάταιος—κακόν), and, conversely, nothing is σπουδαῖον except what is ἀγαθόν ( καὶ καλοῦ—ἀγαθοῦ. σπουδαῖον is involved in σπουδάζει). Both inferences are expressed in such a way as to suggest a personal reference: cf. χαριέντων in B, and see App. I. γελωτοποιεῖν, especially after κωμῳδεῖν just above, points to the comic stage: and Aristophanes is perhaps intended. See on 452 B. The whole sentence means: ‘Foolish is the man who identifies the laughable with anything but the bad, and he who attempts to raise a laugh by looking at any spectacle as laughable except the spectacle of folly and evil aims in all seriousness also at another standard of beauty, which he has set up for himself, than the standard of the good.’ The analysis of τὸ γελοῖον, so far as it goes, is in harmony with Phil. 48 A ff.: cf. especially 49 A. With στησάμενος we must supply αὐτόν, i.e. τὸν σκοπόν. On the difficulties of this passage see App. II.

ἡ ἀνθρωπίνη was objected to by Cobet; but ἡ θήλεια alone would be too general: we are dealing only with ‘female human nature.’