Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 1.347

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[347] διὰ δὴ ταῦτα ἔγωγε, ὦ φίλε Θρασύμαχε, καὶ ἄρτι ἔλεγον μηδένα ἐθέλειν ἑκόντα ἄρχειν καὶ τὰ ἀλλότρια κακὰ μεταχειρίζεσθαι ἀνορθοῦντα, 347a ἀλλὰ μισθὸν αἰτεῖν, ὅτι ὁ μέλλων καλῶς τῇ τέχνῃ πράξειν οὐδέποτε αὑτῷ τὸ βέλτιστον πράττει οὐδʼ ἐπιτάττει κατὰ τὴν τέχνην ἐπιτάττων, ἀλλὰ τῷ ἀρχομένῳ· ὧν δὴ ἕνεκα, ὡς ἔοικε, μισθὸν δεῖν ὑπάρχειν τοῖς μέλλουσιν ἐθελήσειν ἄρχειν, ἢ ἀργύριον ἢ τιμήν, ἢ ζημίαν ἐὰν μὴ ἄρχῃ.
πῶς τοῦτο λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες; ἔφη ὁ Γλαύκων· τοὺς μὲν γὰρ δύο μισθοὺς γιγνώσκω, τὴν δὲ ζημίαν ἥντινα λέγεις καὶ ὡς ἐν μισθοῦ μέρει εἴρηκας, οὐ συνῆκα.
τὸν τῶν βελτίστων ἄρα μισθόν, ἔφην, οὐ συνιεῖς, διʼ ὃν 347b ἄρχουσιν οἱ ἐπιεικέστατοι, ὅταν ἐθέλωσιν ἄρχειν. ἢ οὐκ οἶσθα ὅτι τὸ φιλότιμόν τε καὶ φιλάργυρον εἶναι ὄνειδος λέγεταί τε καὶ ἔστιν;
ἔγωγε, ἔφη.
διὰ ταῦτα τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὔτε χρημάτων ἕνεκα ἐθέλουσιν ἄρχειν οἱ ἀγαθοὶ οὔτε τιμῆς· οὔτε γὰρ φανερῶς πραττόμενοι τῆς ἀρχῆς ἕνεκα μισθὸν μισθωτοὶ βούλονται κεκλῆσθαι, οὔτε λάθρᾳ αὐτοὶ ἐκ τῆς ἀρχῆς λαμβάνοντες κλέπται. οὐδʼ αὖ τιμῆς ἕνεκα· οὐ γάρ εἰσι φιλότιμοι. δεῖ δὴ 347c αὐτοῖς ἀνάγκην προσεῖναι καὶ ζημίαν, εἰ μέλλουσιν ἐθέλειν ἄρχειν—ὅθεν κινδυνεύει τὸ ἑκόντα ἐπὶ τὸ ἄρχειν ἰέναι ἀλλὰ μὴ ἀνάγκην περιμένειν αἰσχρὸν νενομίσθαι—τῆς δὲ ζημίας μεγίστη τὸ ὑπὸ πονηροτέρου ἄρχεσθαι, ἐὰν μὴ αὐτὸς ἐθέλῃ ἄρχειν· ἣν δείσαντές μοι φαίνονται ἄρχειν, ὅταν ἄρχωσιν, οἱ ἐπιεικεῖς, καὶ τότε ἔρχονται ἐπὶ τὸ ἄρχειν οὐχ ὡς ἐπʼ ἀγαθόν τι ἰόντες οὐδʼ ὡς εὐπαθήσοντες ἐν αὐτῷ, ἀλλʼ 347d ὡς ἐπʼ ἀναγκαῖον καὶ οὐκ ἔχοντες ἑαυτῶν βελτίοσιν ἐπιτρέψαι οὐδὲ ὁμοίοις. ἐπεὶ κινδυνεύει πόλις ἀνδρῶν ἀγαθῶν εἰ γένοιτο, περιμάχητον ἂν εἶναι τὸ μὴ ἄρχειν ὥσπερ νυνὶ τὸ ἄρχειν, καὶ ἐνταῦθʼ ἂν καταφανὲς γενέσθαι ὅτι τῷ ὄντι ἀληθινὸς ἄρχων οὐ πέφυκε τὸ αὑτῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖσθαι ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ἀρχομένῳ· ὥστε πᾶς ἂν ὁ γιγνώσκων τὸ ὠφελεῖσθαι μᾶλλον ἕλοιτο ὑπʼ ἄλλου ἢ ἄλλον ὠφελῶν πράγματα ἔχειν. τοῦτο μὲν οὖν ἔγωγε οὐδαμῇ συγχωρῶ 347e Θρασυμάχῳ, ὡς τὸ δίκαιόν ἐστιν τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον. ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μὲν δὴ καὶ εἰς αὖθις σκεψόμεθα· πολὺ δέ μοι δοκεῖ μεῖζον εἶναι ὃ νῦν λέγει Θρασύμαχος, τὸν τοῦ ἀδίκου βίον φάσκων εἶναι κρείττω ἢ τὸν τοῦ δικαίου. σὺ οὖν ποτέρως, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Γλαύκων, αἱρῇ; καὶ πότερον ἀληθεστέρως δοκεῖ σοι λέγεσθαι;
τὸν τοῦ δικαίου ἔγωγε λυσιτελέστερον βίον εἶναι.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 1.347 focus

[347] That was why, friend Thrasymachus, I was just now saying that no one of his own will chooses to hold rule and office and take other people’s troubles¹ in hand to straighten them out, but everybody expects pay for that, 347a because he who is to exercise the art rightly never does what is best for himself or enjoins it when he gives commands according to the art, but what is best for the subject. That is the reason, it seems, why pay² must be provided for those who are to consent to rule, either in form of money or honor or a penalty if they refuse.
What do you mean by that, Socrates? said Glaucon. The two wages I recognize, but the penalty you speak of and described as a form of wage I don’t understand.³ Then, said I, you don’t understand the wages of the best men 347b for the sake of which the finest spirits hold office and rule when they consent to do so. Don’t you know that to be covetous of honor and covetous of money is said to be and is a reproach? I do, he said. Well, then, said I, that is why the good are not willing to rule either for the sake of money or of honor. They do not wish to collect pay openly for their service of rule and be styled hirelings nor to take it by stealth from their office and be called thieves, nor yet for the sake of honor, 347c for they are not covetous of honor. So there must be imposed some compulsion and penalty to constrain them to rule if they are to consent to hold office. That is perhaps why to seek office oneself and not await compulsion is thought disgraceful. But the chief penalty is to be governed by someone worse⁴ if a man will not himself hold office and rule. It is from fear of this, as it appears to me, that the better sort hold office when they do, and then they go to it not in the expectation of enjoyment nor as to a good thing,⁵ but as to a necessary evil and because they are unable to turn it over to better men than themselves 347d or to their like. For we may venture to say that, if there should be a city of good men⁶ only, immunity from office-holding would be as eagerly contended for as office is now,⁷ and there it would be made plain that in very truth the true ruler does not naturally seek his own advantage but that of the ruled; so that every man of understanding would rather choose to be benefited by another than to be bothered with benefiting him. This point then I 347e by no means concede to Thrasymachus, that justice is the advantage of the superior. But that we will reserve for another occasion.⁸ A far weightier matter seems to me Thrasymachus’s present statement, his assertion that the life of the unjust man is better than that of the just. Which now do you choose, Glaucon? said I, and which seems to you to be the truer statement? That the life of the just man is more profitable, I say, he replied.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

Πλάτωνος Πολιτεία . On the name, characters, and date of action of the dialogue, see Introd. §§ 1, 2, 3.

ὡς ἔοικε belongs to

ὧν ἕνεκα , and δεῖν is in indirect narration after ἔλεγον above. There would be no object in qualifying the force of δεῖν; it is not disputed that rulers must have their reward. Hence Stallbaum is wrong in regarding δεῖν as under the influence of ἔοικε, an illogical idiom which is common in Herodotus (Stein on 1 65), and found occasionally in Tragedy (Jebb on Trach. 1238) and in Plato ( Phil. 20 D , Soph. 263 D , Euthyd. 280 D ). That ὡς ἔοικε has no influence on δεῖν in this passage may also be seen from the fact that δεῖν (not δεῖ) would still be used if ὡς ἔοικε were removed. δεῖν is not for δέον; the late participial form δεῖν is not found in Plato: see my note on Euthyph. 4 D .

ἄρχῃ . The transition from plural to singular and conversely is common: see for examples III 408 B, 411 C, 413 D, E, IV 426 A, C, V 463 D, VI 496 C, 500 C, VIII 554 A, C, 558 A, IX 591 A, X 601 D, E, 604 D, and cf. Heindorf on Gorg. 478 C , Prot. 319 D .

ὡς ἐν μισθοῦ μέρει . ὡς is not (with Wohlrab) to be taken with <*>ν μισθοῦ μέρει, but stands for the indirect interrogative ὅπως.

αὐτοί = ‘by themselves,’ ‘ultro,’ should be construed with λαμβάνοντες. The conjecture αὐτόν for αὐτοί is very tame.

ὅθεν κινδυνεύει ‐‐ νενομίσθαι . These words are intended to indicate parenthetically that Socrates' thesis finds support in the common judgment of men. Good men, he says, require to be compelled to rule. This may be why ( ὅθεν) it is accounted a disgrace to enter on office willingly: that is to say, if you do so, you may be inferred to be, not ἀγαθός, but φιλότιμος or φιλάργυρος, which ὄνειδος λέγεταί τε καὶ ἔστιν 347 B. There is no good reason for rejecting the clause, as some have proposed to do.

πόλις ἀνδρῶν ἀγαθῶν is the first express allusion to an Ideal City in the Republic. The principle here laid down—the reluctance of the best men to undertake the task of government—is fully recognised in Plato's commonwealth, where the ἄρχοντες are represented as unwilling to desert the life of contemplation for the cares of office. ‘Nolo episcopari’ is in fact one of the leading guarantees which Plato gives against the abuse of political power (Nohle Die Staatslehre Plato's in ihr. gesch. Entwick. p. 119). See VI 520 E, 521 A, where this topic is resumed. Cf. also Sesame and Lilies § 43 “The true kings—rule quietly, if at all, and hate ruling; too many of them make ‘il gran rifiuto.’”

τῷ ὄντι κτλ . τῷ ὄντι belongs to οὐ πέφυκε, not to ἀληθινός (as Ast supposes). Richter suggests ἁληθινός for ἀληθινός, but what is said of a single ruler applies to all: cf. (with Schneider) Laws 733 E λέγωμεν δὴ σώφρονα βίον ἕνα εἶναι καὶ φρόνιμον ἕνα καὶ ἕνα τὸν ἀνδρεῖον.

πᾶς ἂν κτλ. The articular infinitive with αἱρεῖσθαι is hard to parallel, and on this ground Richards would cancel τό. I once thought that τὸ ὠφελεῖσθαι might be taken as the object after γιγνώσκων (‘he who knows what being benefited is,’ i.e. virtually ‘who knows his own interests’); but this is harsh, and I now acquiesce in the usual interpretation. With γιγνώσκων ( intellegens) used absolutely cf. (with Schneider) Laws 733 E σώφρονα μὲν οὖν βίον ὁ γιγνώσκων θήσει πρᾶον ἐπὶ πάντα. For the sentiment cf. Soph. O. T. 584 —598, Eur. Ion 621 —632, Hipp. 1016—1020.

εἰσαῦθις σκεψόμεθα . The reference has been much discussed. Pfleiderer's idea ( Zur Lösung d. Pl. Fr. p. 72) that the words were introduced by Plato “bei der Gesammtredaktion des Werkes” to prepare us for the second half of Book X is most unlikely, because (among other reasons) Book X does not expressly revert to this topic at all. Siebeck ( Zur Chron. d. Pl. Dialoge pp. 121 ff.) holds that phrases of this sort always refer either to some future dialogue contemplated by Plato, or to a later part of the same dialogue. It is difficult to establish either alternative in the present case; nor has Siebeck, I think, succeeded in proving his point even elsewhere. It is simplest to suppose that such formulae (like εἰσαῦθις ἐπισκεπτέον in Arist. Eth. Nic. I 5. 1097^{b} 14) are in general only a convenient way of dropping the subject, although there may occasionally be a specific reference. Here there is none. So also Hirmer Entst. u. Komp. d. Pl. Polit. in Fl. Jahrb. Supplementband XXIII p. 607 note 2.

τὸν τοῦ ἀδίκου βίον ‐‐ δικαίου . In these words Socrates sums up the remarks of Thrasymachus from 343 B ( καὶ οὕτω πόρρω κτλ.) to 344 C ( λυσιτελοῦν τε καὶ ξυμφέρον).

ποτέρως ‐‐ λέγεσθαι . Ast's suggestion πότερον, ἦν δ) ἐγώ, ὦ Γλαύκων, αἱρεῖ; καὶ ποτέρως ἀληθεστέρως δοκεῖ σοι λέγεσθαι; is now generally adopted, but (apart from its considerable divergence from the MS reading) the juxtaposition of ποτέρως and ἀληθεστέρως is unpleasing. The ποτέρως αἱρεῖ of A is quite unobjectionable: cf. VII 528 A οὕτως—αἱροῦμαι; and it is (I think) an objection to πότερον αἱρεῖ that it would represent Socrates as asking Glauco not which view he elected to take, but which life—the just or the unjust—he chose for himself. Schneider (after Bekker) retains the reading of the best MSS in πότερον ὡς ἀληθεστέρως, and explains the last two words as equivalent to ὥσπερ ὃ ἀληθεστέρως λέγεται: but ὡς ἀληθεστέρως could not (if written by Plato) be anything but the comparative of ὡς ἀληθῶς, and that is quite different in sense from ἀληθεστέρως. I have omitted ὡς (with Bremius and a few MSS of inferior authority), “ut ortum ex varia lectione πότερον et ποτέρως in ποτερόνως conflata” (Schneider). I am glad to find that Tucker adopts the same solution.

Plato Republic 1.347

ed. John Burnet

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