Plato, Republic, Paul Shorey (Translator), 7.537

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[537] “Do not, then, my friend, keep children to their studies by compulsion 537a but by play.¹ That will also better enable you to discern the natural capacities of each.” “There is reason in that,” he said. “And do you not remember,” I said, “that we also declared² that we must conduct the children to war on horseback to be spectators, and wherever it may be safe, bring them to the front and give them a taste of blood as we do with whelps?” “I do remember.” “And those who as time goes on show the most facility in all these toils and studies and alarms are to be selected and enrolled on a list.³” 537b “At what age?” he said. “When they are released from their prescribed gymnastics. For that period, whether it be two or three years, incapacitates them for other occupations.⁴ For great fatigue and much sleep are the foes of study, and moreover one of our tests of them, and not the least, will be their behavior in their physical exercises.⁵” “Surely it is,” he said. “After this period,” I said, “those who are given preference from the twenty-year class will receive greater honors than the others, 537c and they will be required to gather the studies which they disconnectedly pursued as children in their former education into a comprehensive survey⁶ of their affinities with one another and with the nature of things.” “That, at any rate, he said, is the only instruction that abides with those who receive it.” “And it is also,” said I, “the chief test of the dialectical nature and its opposite. For he who can view things in their connection is a dialectician; he who cannot, is not.” “I concur,” he said. “With these qualities in mind,” I said, 537d “it will be your task to make a selection of those who manifest them best from the group who are steadfast in their studies and in war and in all lawful requirements, and when they have passed the thirtieth year to promote them, by a second selection from those preferred in the first,⁷ to still greater honors, and to prove and test them by the power of dialectic⁸ to see which of them is able to disregard the eyes and other senses⁹ and go on to being itself in company with truth. And at this point, my friend, the greatest care¹⁰ is requisite.” “How so?” he said. “Do you not note,” 537e said I, “how great is the harm caused by our present treatment of dialectics?” “What is that?” he said. “Its practitioners are infected with lawlessness.¹¹” “They are indeed.” “Do you suppose,” I said, “that there is anything surprising in this state of mind, and do you not think it pardonable¹²?” “In what way, pray?” he said.

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.537 focus

[537]
μὴ τοίνυν βίᾳ, εἶπον, ὦ ἄριστε, τοὺς παῖδας ἐν τοῖς 537a μαθήμασιν ἀλλὰ παίζοντας τρέφε, ἵνα καὶ μᾶλλον οἷός τʼ ᾖς καθορᾶν ἐφʼ ὃ ἕκαστος πέφυκεν.
ἔχει ὃ λέγεις, ἔφη, λόγον.
οὐκοῦν μνημονεύεις, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι καὶ εἰς τὸν πόλεμον ἔφαμεν τοὺς παῖδας εἶναι ἀκτέον ἐπὶ τῶν ἵππων θεωρούς, καὶ ἐάν που ἀσφαλὲς ᾖ, προσακτέον ἐγγὺς καὶ γευστέον αἵματος, ὥσπερ τοὺς σκύλακας;
μέμνημαι, ἔφη.
ἐν πᾶσι δὴ τούτοις, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τοῖς τε πόνοις καὶ μαθήμασι καὶ φόβοις ὃς ἂν ἐντρεχέστατος ἀεὶ φαίνηται, εἰς ἀριθμόν τινα ἐγκριτέον. 537b
ἐν τίνι, ἔφη, ἡλικίᾳ;
ἡνίκα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τῶν ἀναγκαίων γυμνασίων μεθίενται· οὗτος γὰρ ὁ χρόνος, ἐάντε δύο ἐάντε τρία ἔτη γίγνηται, ἀδύνατός τι ἄλλο πρᾶξαι· κόποι γὰρ καὶ ὕπνοι μαθήμασι πολέμιοι. καὶ ἅμα μία καὶ αὕτη τῶν βασάνων οὐκ ἐλαχίστη, τίς ἕκαστος ἐν τοῖς γυμνασίοις φανεῖται.
πῶς γὰρ οὔκ; ἔφη.
μετὰ δὴ τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐκ τῶν εἰκοσιετῶν οἱ προκριθέντες τιμάς τε μείζους τῶν ἄλλων οἴσονται, 537c τά τε χύδην μαθήματα παισὶν ἐν τῇ παιδείᾳ γενόμενα τούτοις συνακτέον εἰς σύνοψιν οἰκειότητός τε ἀλλήλων τῶν μαθημάτων καὶ τῆς τοῦ ὄντος φύσεως.
μόνη γοῦν, εἶπεν, ἡ τοιαύτη μάθησις βέβαιος, ἐν οἷς ἂν ἐγγένηται.
καὶ μεγίστη γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πεῖρα διαλεκτικῆς φύσεως καὶ μή· ὁ μὲν γὰρ συνοπτικὸς διαλεκτικός, ὁ δὲ μὴ οὔ.
συνοίομαι, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
ταῦτα τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, δεήσει σε ἐπισκοποῦντα οἳ ἂν 537d μάλιστα τοιοῦτοι ἐν αὐτοῖς ὦσι καὶ μόνιμοι μὲν ἐν μαθήμασι, μόνιμοι δʼ ἐν πολέμῳ καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις νομίμοις, τούτους αὖ, ἐπειδὰν τὰ τριάκοντα ἔτη ἐκβαίνωσιν, ἐκ τῶν προκρίτων προκρινάμενον εἰς μείζους τε τιμὰς καθιστάναι καὶ σκοπεῖν, τῇ τοῦ διαλέγεσθαι δυνάμει βασανίζοντα τίς ὀμμάτων καὶ τῆς ἄλλης αἰσθήσεως δυνατὸς μεθιέμενος ἐπʼ αὐτὸ τὸ ὂν μετʼ ἀληθείας ἰέναι. καὶ ἐνταῦθα δὴ πολλῆς φυλακῆς ἔργον, ὦ ἑταῖρε.
τί μάλιστα; ἦ δʼ ὅς. 537e
οὐκ ἐννοεῖς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τὸ νῦν περὶ τὸ διαλέγεσθαι κακὸν γιγνόμενον ὅσον γίγνεται;
τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη.
παρανομίας που, ἔφην ἐγώ, ἐμπίμπλανται.
καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.
θαυμαστὸν οὖν τι οἴει, εἶπον, πάσχειν αὐτούς, καὶ οὐ συγγιγνώσκεις;
πῇ μάλιστα; ἔφη.

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Cf. 424 E-425 A, Laws 819 B-C, 643 B-D, 797 A-B, Polit. 308 D. Cf. the naive statement in Colvin And Bagley, Human Behavior, p. 41:

The discovery [ sic!] by Karl Groos that play was actually a preparation for the business of later life was almost revolutionary from the standpoint of educational theory and practice.

2. Cf. 467, vol. I. pp. 485-487.

3. ἐγκριτέον cf. 413 D, 377 C, 486 D, Laws 802 B, 820 D, 936 A, 952 A.

4. Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1339 a 7 f.

ἅμα γὰρ τῇ τε διανοίᾳ καὶ τῷ σώματι διαπονεῖν οὐ δεῖ

, etc.; Plut. De Ed. Puer. 11, De Tuenda San. C. 25, quoted by Newman, Aristot. Pol. I. p. 359, are irrelevant to this passage, but could be referred to the balancing of music and gymnastics in 410-412.

5. Cf. Laws 829 B-C.

6. σύνοψιν: cf. 531 D. This thought is endlessly repeated by modern writers on education. Cf. Mill, Diss. and Disc. iv. 336; Bagley, The Educative Process, p. 180:

The theory of concentration proposed by Ziller . . . seeks to organize all the subject matter of instruction into a unifies system, the various units of which shall be consciously related to one another in the minds of the pupils

; Haldane, The Philosophy of Humanism, p. 94:

There was a conference attended by representatives of various German Universities . . . which took place at Hanstein, not far from Göttingen in May 1921. . . . The purpose of the movement is nominally the establishment of a Humanistic Faculty. But in this connection faculty does not mean a separate faculty of humanistic studies. . . . The real object is to bring these subjects into organic relation to one another.

Cf. Alexander, Space, Time, and Deity, vol. i. p. 4

So true is it that, as Plato puts it, the metaphysician is a synoptical man.

Cf. also Aristot. Soph. El. 167 a 38

διὰ τὸ μὴ δύνασθαι συνορᾶν τὸ ταὐτὸν καὶ τὸ ἕτερον

. Stenzel, Dialektik, misuses the passage to support the view that Plato’s dialectic still looks for unity and not for divisions and distinctions, as in the Sophist. Cf. also ibid. p.72.

7. For the technical meaning of the word προκρίτων Cf. Laws 753 B-D.

8. For this periphrasis cf. Phaedr. 246 D, Tim. 85 E. Cf. also on 509 A.

9. The reader of Plato ought not to misunderstand this now. Cf. on 532 A, pp. 196 f., note d, and 530 p. 187, note c.

10. Plato returns to an idea suggested in 498 A, and warns against the mental confusion and moral unsettlement that result from premature criticism of life by undisciplined minds. In the terminology of modern education, he would not encourage students to discuss the validity of the Ten commandments and the Constitution of the United States before they could spell, construe, cipher, and had learned to distinguish an undistributed middle term from a petitio principii. Cf. Phaedo 89 D-E. We need not suppose with Grote and others that this involves any reaction or violent change of the opinion he held when he wrote the minor dialogues that portray such discussions. In fact, the still later Sophist, 230 B-C-D, is more friendly to youthful dialectics. Whatever the effect of the practice of Socrates or the Sophists, Plato himself anticipates Grote’s criticism in the Republic by representing Socrates as discoursing with ingenuous youth in a more simple and edifying style. Cf. Lysis 207 D ff., Euthydem. 278 E-282 C, 288 D-290 D. Yet again the Charmides might be thought an exception. Cf. also Zeller, Phil. d. Griechen, ii. 1, p. 912, who seems to consider the Sophist earlier than the Republic.

11. i.e. they call all restrictions on impulses and instincts tyrannical conventions. Cf. Gorg. 483-484, Aristoph. Clouds, passim, and on nature and law cf. Vol. I. p. 116, note a, on 359 C.

12. Cf. on 494 A, p. 43, note c.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἔφαμεν . V 467 C—E.

ἐντρεχέστατος : ‘most agile in’ (“der rührigste” Schneider). The word is rare, and apparently not elsewhere found in writers of the best period. It occurs in Longinus περὶ ὕψους 44. I δριμεῖαί τε καὶ ἐντρεχεῖς ( φύσεις) and Marc. Aur. VI 14: cf. id. VII 66 ( ἐντρεχέστερον) and I 8 ( ἐντρέχειος). For a kindred use of the verb ἐντρέχειν see Hom. Il. 19. 385 εἰ οἷ ἐφαρμόσσειε (sc. ἔντεα) καὶ ἐντρέχοι ἀγλαὰ γυῖα.

οὗτος ‐‐ ὁ χρόνος κτλ. The compulsory military or militia service of Athenian youth during their eighteenth and nineteenth years is probably in Plato's mind: see Gilbert Gk. Const. Ant. E. T. pp. 311—313.

προκριθέντες . See on 537 D.

ἐν τῇ παιδείᾳ . It is difficult to decide whether Plato in this instance wrote παιδιᾷ, παιδίᾳ or παιδείᾳ. παιδιὰ| is supported by three inferior MSS as well as by A^{2} and the oldest MS of Theo (see Hiller's edition p. 3), and παίζοντας τρέφε in 536 E seems at first sight to favour it. But ἐν τῇ παιδιᾷ is different from ἐν παιδιᾶς μέρει, and ought to mean ‘in their play’; whereas 536 E does not distinguish between ‘study’ and ‘play’ (see note ad loc.). παιδίᾳ ‘boyhood’ has also some MS support, and the existence of the word in Greek is fully proved by Schneider in his elaborate note. But ἐν τῇ παιδίᾳ would be superfluous after παισίν, and on the whole I now prefer the traditional reading παιδείᾳ, which appears to be in a majority of MSS.

τούτοις συνακτέον κτλ. τούτοις (sc. τοῖς προκριθεῖσι) goes with συνακτέον. The propaedeutic studies now begin to be pursued no longer χύδην, but systematically and comparatively, so as to reveal the ‘kinship of the studies with one another and with the nature of Being’: cf. 531 D note, and (for the meaning of οἰκειότης) 526 C note Platt would omit τῶν μαθημάτων as a gloss on ἀλλήλων, but without these words the Greek might mean ‘their mutual kinship and the kinship of true being’ (with itself). τῶν μαθημάτων is also in Theo (l. c.). For the genitives ἀλλήλων and τῆς—φύσεως, (which D. and V. wrongly connect with σύνοψιν), cf. VI 501 D τὴν φύσιν αὐτῶν οἰκείαν εἶναι τοῦ ἀρίστου .

ὁ μὲν γὰρ συνοπτικὸς κτλ. Cf. 531 D note: also Phaedr. 265 D ff. εἰς μίαν —ἰδέαν συνορῶντα ἄγειν τὰ πολλαχῇ διεσπαρμένα, Laws XII 965 B ( συνορῶντα), Phaedr. 273 E , Soph. 253 D ff. and other passages cited by Zeller^{4} II 1. p. 616 note 3. See also App. III.

ἐν αὐτοῖς . αὐτοῖς is masculine (Schneider), not neuter (as D. and V. translate).

ἐκ τῶν προκρίτων . πρόκριτοι was a familiar term in the organisation of Greek polities: see Arist. Ath. Pol. 8. 1 with Sandys ad loc., and cf. also Pl. Laws 753 C f.

ὀμμάτων ‐‐ μεθιέμενος . See VI 511 B note

παρανομίας κτλ. Like Phidippides in Ar. Clouds 1399 ff. ὡς ἡδὺ καινοῖς πράγμασιν καὶ δεξιοῖς ὁμιλεῖν | καὶ τῶν καθεστώτων νόμων ὑπερφρονεῖν δύνασθαι κτλ. Schneider retains ἐμπίπλαται (see cr. n.), making the subject τὸ διαλέγεσθαι, but the present tense (‘they become filled with lawlessness’) favours the plural. Or does Plato mean that the dialectic of his day was degenerating? I think not; for that is scarcely a reason for exercising special care in connexion with his own ( ἐνταῦθα δὴ πολλῆς φυλακῆς ἔργον). αὐτούς is not decisive, though it points to the plural, which is also supported by 539 A παράνομος δὴ— δόξει γεγονέναι ἐκ νομίμου.

Plato Republic 7.537

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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