Plato Republic 7.528

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 7.528 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Cf. Charm. 166 D, Phaedo 64 C, Soph. 265 A, Apol. 33 A.
2. ἄναγε is a military term. Cf. Aristoph. Birds 383, Xen. Cyr. vii. 1.45, iii. 3. 69.
3. ἑξῆς Cf. Laches 182 B.
4. Lit. increase Cf. Pearson, The Grammar of Science, p. 411:
He proceeds from curves of frequency to surfaces of frequency, and then requiring to go beyond these he finds his problem lands him in space of many dimensions.
5. This is not to be pressed. Plato means only that the progress of solid geometry is unsatisfactory. Cf. 528 D. There may or may not be a reference here to the Delian problem of the duplication of the cube (cf. Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 503 for the story) and other specific problems which the historians of mathematics discuss in connection with this passage. Cf. Adam ad loc. To understand Plato we need only remember that the extension of geometry to solids was being worked out in his day, perhaps partly at his suggestion, e.g. by Theaetetus for whom a Platonic dialogue is named, and that Plato makes use of the discovery of the five regular solids in his theory of the elements in the Timaeus. Cf. also Laws 819 E ff. for those who wish to know more of the ancient traditions and modern conjectures I add references: Eva Sachs, De Theaeteto Ath. Mathematico, Diss. Berlin, 1914, and Die fünf platonischen Körper (Philolog. Untersuch. Heft 24), Berlin, 1917; E. Hoppe, Mathematik und Astronomie im klass. Altertum, pp. 133 ff.; Rudolf Eberling, Mathematik und Philosophie bei Plato, Münden, 1909, with my review in Class. Phil. v. ( 1910) p. 114; Seth Demel, Platons Verhältnis zur Mathematik, Leipzig, with my review, Class. Phil. xxiv. ( 1929) pp. 312-313; and, for further bibliography on Plato and mathematics, Budé, Rep. Introd. pp. lxx-lxxi.
6. Plato is perhaps speaking from personal experience as director of the Academy. Cf. the hint in Euthydem. 290 C.
7. i.e. the mathematicians already feel themselves to be independent specialists.
8. This interpretation is, I think, correct. For the construction of this sentence cf. Isoc. xv. 84. The text is disputed; see crit. note.
9. Lit. in what respect they are useful. Plato is fond of the half legal καθ’ ὅ τι. Cf. Lysis 210 C, Polit. 298 C.
10. An eminent modern psychologist innocently writes:
The problem of why geometry gives pleasure is therefore a deeper problem than the mere assertion of the fact. Furthermore, there are many known cases where the study of geometry does not give pleasure to the student.
Adam seems to think it may refer to the personality of Eudoxus.
11. πραγματείαν: interesting is the development of this word from its use in Phaedo 63 A ( interest, zeal, inquiring spirit. Cf. Aristot. Top. 100 a 18, Eth. Nic. 1103 b 26, Polyb. i. 1. 4, etc.
12. An obvious allusion to the proverb found in many forms in many languages. Cf. also Polit. 277 A-B, 264 B, Soph. Antig. 231
σχολῇ ταχύς
, Theognis 335, 401
μηδὲν ἄγαν σπεύδειν
, Suetonius, Augustus 25, Aulus Gellius x. 11. 4, Macrob. Sat. vi. 8. 9,
festina lente,
hâtez-vous lentement
(Boileau, Art poétique, i. 171),
Chi va piano va sano e va lontano
(Goldoni, I volponi,I. ii.), Eile mit Weile and similar expressions; Franklin’s
Great haste makes great waste,
etc.
13. μέθοδον: this word, like πραγματεία came to mean treatise.
14. This is the meaning. Neither Stallbaum’s explanation,
quia ita est comparata, ut de ea quaerere ridiculum sit,”
nor that accepted by Adam,
quia ridicule tractatur,
is correct, and 529 E and 521 A are not in point. Cf. 528 B p. 176, note a.
15. Cf. Laws 822 A ff.
16. i.e. assuming this to exist, vorhanden sein, which is the usual meaning of ὑπάρχειν in classical Greek. The science, of course, is solid geometry, which is still undeveloped, but in Plato’s state will be constituted as a regular science through endowed research.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἄναγε ‐‐ εἰς τοὐπίσω : ‘fall back then’: cf. Ar. Birds 383 ἄναγ’ ἐπὶ σκέλος, with Blaydes' note. The metaphor is not naval (as Ast and Stallbaum hold), but military, nor is ἀνάγειν ( ναῦν) even in naval language ‘inhibere,’ but ‘put out to sea,’ as in Hdt. VII 100, VIII 76 et al. and occasionally in Attic (for ἀνάγεσθαι). Cf. ἀνεχώρησας 528 D.

οὐκ ὀρθῶς : see on τὸ ἐχόμενον τούτου 526 C. The subjects ought to follow each other in the order of their complexity: see App. II. Plato's error was of course deliberately “contrived to emphasize the principle which it violated” (Bosanquet), and also, it may be added, to enable him to call especial attention to the study of Stereometry, on which he laid very great stress (527 D note).

ἤδη should be taken with ὄν (‘already in revolution’), not (as D. and V.) with λαβόντες.

δευτέραν αὔξην κτλ. It is better (with Schneider) to translate αὔξη by ‘increase’ than by ‘dimension’; for αὔξη always implies something increased, and in the phrases δευτέρα αὔξη etc. this ‘something’ is the point. Among the Pythagoreans, who probably originated these expressions, the line was regarded as an αὔξη of the point, the plane of the line, the solid of the plane. See App. II.

κύβων αὔξην : ‘cubic increase,’ i.e. the increase which belongs to, or results in, cubes, with perhaps also a play on a different sense of κύβων αὔξην, ‘how to increase cubes,’ as in the famous ‘Delian problem’ of the διπλασιασμὸς κύβου (so also Tannery l. c. X p. 525). See on 527 D. But as cubes are not the only solid bodies, Plato adds τὸ βάθους μετέχον. By Aristotle's time the name στερεομετρία had been invented to designate the science as a whole ( An. Post. II 13. 78^{b} 38).

ταῦτά γε ‐‐ ηὑρῆσθαι . Plato does not of course mean to say that the study of Stereometry had not yet been invented, for the subject had already in one form or another engaged the attention of the Py thagoreans, Anaxagoras and Democritus (Blass l.c. p. 21, Tannery l.c. X p. 524), not to speak of Hippocrates of Chios, who had concerned himself in the fifth century B.C. with the question of the duplication of the cube (Allman Gk Geometry etc. pp. 84 ff.). He only means that its problems had not yet been ‘discovered’ ( ηὑρῆσθαι as in Pythagoras' ηὕρηκα) or solved. When and by whom the ‘Delian problem’ in particular was definitively solved to the satisfaction of the Academy, is not quite clear. The tradition which ascribes a solution of it to Plato himself is beset with grave difficulties, as Blass (l.c. pp. 21—30) and others have pointed out (see especially Cantor l.c. pp. 194—202 and Sturm Das Delische Problem pp. 49 ff.). It is however universally allowed that the principle involved —the finding of “two mean proportionals between one straight line and another twice as long” (Gow Gk Math. p. 169) —was first stated by Hippocrates of Chios and well known to Plato, at all events when he wrote the Timaeus (32 A ff.: see also Häbler Ueber zwei Stellen in Platons Timaeus etc. pp. 1—17). We may perhaps infer from οὔπω ηὑρῆσθαι that Plato did not think a final solution of this as of other stereometrical problems had yet been reached: there is at all events nothing in the Republic to justify the curious statement of Diogenes Laertius that ( Ἀρχύτας) πρῶτος κύβου διπλασιας μὸν εὗρεν, ὥς φησι Πλάτων ἐν πολιτείᾳ (VIII 83), although it is probably true that Archytas was the first to offer a solution of the famous difficulty (see Sturm l.c. pp. 22—32). In D. L. l.c. Cobet reads πρῶτος κύβον εὗρεν κτλ., whether on his own responsibility, or on MS authority, he does not tell us. See also on 527 D, 528 C.

ὅτι τε κτλ. In Laws 819 E ff. Plato reproaches the Greeks for their ignorance of and indifference to stereometrical questions.

ἐντίμως ἔχει : ‘holds in honour,’ as in VIII 548 A. The expression usually means ‘is honoured’ ( Xen. An. II 1. 7 ): hence ἄγει for ἔχει is proposed by Herwerden, who compares 528 C, 538 E. But the error is not an easy one in such a MS as A, and it is safer to keep ἔχει and take the phrase as= ἐν τιμῇ ἔχει (cf. ἐν ἀτιμίῃ ἔχει Hdt. III 3, ἐν εὐνοίᾳ ἔχειν [Dem.] 284. 11, and Jebb on Soph. Ant. 639 ) as ἄγειν ἐντίμως= ἄγειν ἐν τιμῇ (538 E).

ὡς νῦν ἔχει belongs no doubt to the following clauses (IV 419 A note): but see also on 528 C.

μεγαλοφρονούμενοι is condemned as un-Attic by Cobet ( V. L.^{2} pp. 232, 531); but μεγαλόφρων, μεγαλοφροσύνη are Attic, and Xenophon uses μεγαλοφρονεῖν. μεγαλαυχούμενοι (Cobet's emendation) would mean ‘vaunting’: cf. III 395 D.

εἰ δὲ πόλις κτλ. is perhaps the earliest demand in literature for the State-encouragement—we might almost say the State-endowment—of pure science (cf. Krohn Pl. St. p. 169). Plato implies that in his city this claim will be fully satisfied; and the Platonic Utopia is in fact “la revendication du pouvoir pour la science” (Tannery l.c. p. 521).

ξυνεπιστατοῖ κτλ. : ‘should cooperate with the superintendent’ etc. not (as Jowett) ‘become the director of these studies’: for a special ἐπιστάτης—Plato has just said—is needed in any case. Plato's picture of the odium stereometricum, if the phrase may be allowed, is evidently drawn from life. He seems to speak as if he had himself an ἐπιστάτης ready, and wished to secure for him public support in order that students might be willing to work under him. Now although ὡς νῦν ἔχει belongs, strictly speaking, to the following clause, the words may, so far as the Greek is concerned, be connected with ἔπειτα καὶ γενομένου, and will then be equivalent to ὡς νῦν ἐγένετο ἐπιστάτης. I think it not impossible that Plato intended his readers to suspect him of this further meaning. If there is anything in this conjecture, to whom does Plato allude? Not, surely, to himself, although some have suspected the philosopher of blowing his own trumpet in a somewhat similar passage of the Phaedo (78 A): see Lutoslawski's Plato's Logic pp. 263 f. We are told by Plutarch de genio Socratis 7. 579 C that Plato referred the Delian deputation to Eudoxus, telling them that the problem was οὔ τοι φαῦλον οὐδ’ ἀμβλὺ διανοίας ὁρώσης, ἄκρως δὲ τὰς γραμμὰς ἠσκημένης ἔργον εἶναι· τοῦτο μὲν οὖν Εὔδοξον αὐτοῖς τὸν Κνίδιον ἢ τὸν Κυζικηνὸν Ἑλικῶνα συντελέσειν κτλ. Now we know that Eudoxus not only himself achieved a solution of the Delian problem (Sturm l.c. pp. 32—37), but was also, in the fullest sense of the term, ‘the founder of scientific Stereometry’ (Günther in Müller's Handbuch V 1, p. 30), and did more for the subject than any of Plato's disciples (Cantor l.c. pp. 208—210). For these reasons I think it not unlikely that Plato has Eudoxus in his mind. Eudoxus and his pupils seem to have been living and working in the Academy along with the followers of Plato sometime between Plato's second and third visits to Sicily (368 B.C. and 361 B.C.: see Allman Gk Geometry etc. p. 178), and it is a pleasing and I hope pardonable conjecture—I do not claim that it is more—to suppose that Plato avails himself of this opportunity to pay a graceful compliment to his fellow-workers. See also on line 19 below and Introd. § 4.

ἐντίμως ἄγουσα . The phrase is illustrated by Lobeck Phryn. p. 419.

ὑπὸ δὲ κτλ. ὑπὸ depends on ἀτιμαζόμενα καὶ κολουόμενα. There is a sense in which the students also ἀτιμάζουσι καὶ κολούουσι a subject, which they ἀσθενῶς ζητοῦσιν (B above). κολουόμενα is in harmony with αὐξάνεται—though cut short, the study still grows or advances. For other views on this sentence see App. VIII.

λόγον κτλ. The ζητοῦντες are the ζητητικοί of B—not, I think, Plato's pupils, but men who cannot explain the true utility of stereometry (as described in 527 D, E), and are unwilling to throw their whole hearts into a ‘useless’ study.

βίᾳ ‐‐ αὐξάνεται . Blass (l.c. p. 22) observes that in these words “sine dubio mathematici ex schola Platonis profecti intelligendi sunt.” It is just conceivable —though of course no stress should be laid on the conjecture—that ὑπὸ χάριτος conceals some complimentary allusion to a particular person. If so, Eudoxus may be intended (see above on 528 C). There is, it is true, a tradition that Plato and Eudoxus had not always been on the best of terms (Allman Gk Geom. pp. 128 f.), but during the visit of Eudoxus to Athens between 368 and 361 B.C., they appear to have worked harmoniously and even cordially together (ib. pp. 133, 178). See also 530 A note But we have no evidence to shew that Eudoxus bore the sobriquet of χάρις, though his character and personality (see Arist. Eth. Nic. X 2. 1172^{b} 15 ff.), and even perhaps his name, deserved such a compliment. I think Plato means merely ‘through elegance,’ i.e. through the inherent elegance of the subject: cf. τό γε ἐπίχαρι καὶ διαφερόντως ἔχει. The use of ὑπό is as in ὑπὸ δέους φωνὴν ἔρρηξε and the like: see KühnerGerth Gr. Gr. II 1, p. 523. Badham's ἐπιχάριτα for ὑπὸ χάριτος is an unlucky venture. Dr Jackson suggests that ὑπὸ χάριτος may perhaps mean ‘by grace, favour,’ ‘on sufferance’: but Glauco's reply appears to me against this view.

οὐδὲν ‐‐ φανῆναι : ‘be brought to light,’ ‘discovered,’ ‘solved’: cf. X 602 D and ηὑρῆσθαι and ἐκφανῆ above. Unless Badham, Madvig, and Baiter had entirely mistaken the meaning of φανῆναι, they could scarcely have conjectured or approved of τοιαῦτα in place of αὐτά. Plato's language seems to point to some exceptional activity in connexion with the study of stereometrical problems, such as may have been occasioned by the application from Delos (527 D note), and to encourage his pupils to hope for success at no distant date.

ἀλλά μοι κτλ. The recapitulation is intended to emphasize once more the principle regulating Plato's sequence of subjects (528 A note and App. II).

σπεύδων ‐‐ βραδύνω : a proverbial saying, like our ‘more haste, less speed’: cf. (with Stallbaum) Pol. 264 B . If we σπεύδομεν ταχέως, we are apt σπεύδοντες βραδύνειν; hence the proverb σπεῦδε βραδέως ‘Eile mit Weile.’ See Jebb on Soph. Ant. 231 .

ὅτι τῇ ζητήσει κτλ. : not “quia ita est comparata, ut de ea quaerere ridiculum sit” (Stallbaum), but ‘quia ridicule tractatur’: cf. (with Schneider) 529 E.

ᾗ σὺ μετέρχει : lit. ‘in respect of that, in respect of which you pursue it,’ i.e. ‘in the way in which you pursue it,’ no longer for its practical uses, as I did before (527 D), but because it leads the soul ‘on high,’ and from things here yonder (“from the things of this world to the next,” say D. and V., quite wrongly). The object of ἐπαινῶ is not ᾗ σὺ μετέρχει, but astronomy. Glauco has assimilated the phraseology of Socrates without its meaning. ‘On high’ and ‘yonder’ mean to Glauco the material heavens, not the νοητὸς τόπος: and he thinks the soul looks upwards if the bodily eye is turned aloft! The essence of Glauco's error consists in materializing the spiritual; and Plato here warns us against a danger which is responsible for countless errors, not only in Platonic criticism, but in every department of human thought and dogma. See also on 529 B, C.