Plato Republic 6.504

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 6.504 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. For the tripartite soul cf. Vol. I. on 435 A and 436 B, Unity of Plato’s Thought, p. 42, What Plato Said, p. 526 on Phaedo 68 C, p. 552 on Phaedr. 246 B, and p. 563 on Rep. 435 B-C.
2. Cf. Vol. I. on 435 C, Phaedr. 274 A, Friedländer, Platon, ii. pp. 376-377, Jowett and Campbell, p. 300 Frutiger, Mythes de Platon, pp. 81 ff., and my Idea of Good in Plato’s Republic( Univ. of Chicago Studies in Class. Phil. vol. i. p. 190). There is no mysticism and no obscurity. The longer way is the higher education, which will enable the philosopher not only like ordinary citizens to do the right from habit and training, but to understand the reasons for it. The outcome of such an education is described as the vision of the idea of good, which for ethics and politics means a restatement of the provisional psychological definition of the cardinal virtues in terms of the ultimate elements of human welfare. For metaphysics and cosmogony the vision of the idea of good may means teleological interpretation of the universe and the interpretation of all things in terms of benevolent design. That is reserved for poetical and mythical treatment in the Timaeus. The Republic merely glances at the thought from time to time and returns to its own theme. Cf.also Introd. p. xxxv.
3. Cf. Cic. De fin. i. 1
nec modus est ullus investigandi veri nisi inveneris.
Note not only the edifying tone and the unction of the style but the definite suggestion of Plato’s distaste for relativity and imperfection which finds expression in the criticism of the homo mensura in the Theaetetus, in the statement of the Laws 716 C, that God is the measure of all things ( What Plato Said, p. 631), and in the contrast in the Politicus 283-294 between measuring things against one another and measuring them by an idea. Cf. 531 A.
4. Cf. Menex. 234 A, Charm. 158 C, Symp. 204 A, Epist. vii. 341 A. From here to the end of this Book the notes are to be used in connection with the Introduction, pp. xxiii-xxxvi, where the idea of good and the divided line are discussed.
5. Cf. Phaedr. 274 A.
6. i.e. sketch, adumbration. The ὑπογραφή is the account of the cardinal virtues in Bk. iv. 428-433.
7. For πᾶν ποιεῖν cf. on 488 C, for συντεινομένους Euthydem. 288 D.
8. Such juxtaposition of forms of the same word is one of the most common features of Plato’s style. Cf. 453 B
ἑνα ἕν
, 466 D
πάντα πάντῃ
, 467 D
πολλὰ πολλοῖς
, 496 C
οὐδεὶς οὐδέν
, Laws 835 C
μόνῳ μόνος
, 958 B
ἑκόντα ἑκών
. Cf. also Protag. 327 B, Gorg. 523 B, Symp. 217 B, Tim. 92 b, Phaedo 109 B, Apol. 232 C, and Laws passim.
9. The answer is to the sense. Cf. 346 E, Crito 47 C, and D, Laches 195 D, Gorg. 467 E. See critical note.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἐλέγομεν . See IV 435 D note

ἦν : “ut ἐχρῆν et similia dictum” (Schneider). There is no reason to eject the word (with Madvig) or to write εἴη: why should not the mood of the oratio recta be retained? εἴη would be unpleasing with εἴη following so soon. Liebhold's ὡς μὲν δυνατὰ ᾖ is unclassical: see on I 349 C. Richards conjectures ὡς μὲν <ὡς or ὅσον or εἰς τὸ> δυνατὸν κάλλιστα κτλ., taking ὡς with κατιδεῖν. But we ought not to multiply instances of ὡς for ὥστε in Plato (II 365 D note). The infinitive means simply ‘for descrying,’ ‘in order to descry them in the best possible way’: see Goodwin MT. p. 308 and Kühner Gr. Gr. II p. 586.

αὐτά is of course the four cardinal virtues, like ταῦτα in 504 D. The ‘longer circuit’ is the educational training necessary in order to enable the guardians to obtain scientific knowledge of the virtues by discerning their relation with the Idea of Good: cf. 506 A. In Book IV Justice, Temperance etc. were regarded as psychological qualities or relations; but the philosophic Guardians must learn their metaphysical import. Throughout the rest of VI and VII Plato, in short, discards Psychology for Metaphysics. Thus much is clear; but many difficult and interesting questions arise in connexion with this passage, as Krohn and others have pointed out. The μακροτέρα περίοδος mentioned in IV 435 D appears to be a longer way of determining, not the essential nature of the virtues, but whether Soul has ‘parts’ or not. (A solution of this difficulty is suggested on 435 D). Socrates' shorter road, again, is not a way by which the Guardians are to go, but a method employed by himself in studying primarily the Soul, and secondarily the virtues. Finally, what is the relation between the psychological conception of Virtue and the metaphysical? And does the metaphysical conception involve a revised psychology or not? The last question is touched on in the notes to X 611 B, where Plato himself appears to raise it. For the last but one see on 504 D.

ἑπομένας : ‘corresponding with’ ‘on a level with’ (Jowett) viz. in point of ἀκριβεία: cf. IV 435 D τῶν γε προειρημένων τε καὶ προεσκεμμένων ἀξίως, where see note. For the genitive with ἑπόμενος cf. (with Stallbaum) Pol. 271 E and Laws 899 C ( ὁπόσα τούτων ξυνεπόμενα, according to the best MS). Bywater would read ἐχομένας here and ἐχόμενα in the Politicus, but it is safer to make no change, although the reverse corruption of ἐχόμενα for ἑπόμενα apparently occurs in Gorg. 494 E , if Bekker's restoration is correct.