Plato Republic 5.451

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 5.451 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Cf. on 452 C-D, Euthydemus 3 C
To be laughed at is no matter,
Laws 830 B
τὸν τῶν ἀνοήτων γέλωτα
, Euripides fr. 495.
2. Ἀδράστειαν: practically equivalent to Nemesis. Cf. our knock on wood. Cf. Posnansky in Breslauer Phil. Abhandl. v. 2, Nemesis und Adrasteia: Herodotus i. 35, Aeschylus Prom. 936, Euripides Rhesus 342, Demosthenes xxv. 37
καὶ Ἀδράστειαν μὲν ἄνθρωπος ὢν ἐγὼ προσκυνῶ
. For the moral earnestness of what follows cf. 336 E, Gorgias 458 A, and Joubert apud Arnold, Essays in Crit. p. 29
Ignorance . . . is in itself in intellectual matters a crime of the first order.
3. γὰρ οὖν, for in fact, but often with the suggestion that the fact has to be faced, as e.g. in Timaeus 47 E, where the point is often missed.
4. Almost proverbial. Cf. my note on Horace, Odes iii. 27. 21. Plato is speaking here from the point of view of the ordinary man, and not from that of his Sermon on the Mount ethics. Cf. Philebus 49 D and Gorgias 480 E, where Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, ii. pp. 332 and 350, goes astray. Cf. Class. Phil . vol. i. p. 297.
5. ὥσπερ marks the legal metaphor to which ἐκεῖ below refers. Cf. Laws 869 E, and Euripides Hippolytus 1433 and 1448-1450, with Hirzel, Δίκη etc. p. 191, n. 1, Demosthenes xxxvii. 58-59. Plato transfers the idea to the other world in Phaedo 114 A-B, where the pardon of their victims is required for the release of sinners. The passage is used by the older critics in the comparison of Plato with Christianity.
6. Sophron’s Mimes are said to have been so classified. For δρᾶμα cf. also Theaetetus 150 A.
7. For the use of analogies drawn from animals cf. 375-376, 422 D, 466 D, 467 B, 491 D-E, 537 A, 546 A-B, 564 A. Plato is only pretending to deduce his conclusions from his imagery. Aristotle’s literal-minded criticism objects that animals have no economy, Politics 1264 b 4-6.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ὀφλεῖν κτλ. The infinitive depends on φοβερόν, and is like the infinitive after φοβοῦμαι. In the antithetical clause Plato substitutes the more usual construction with μή. The future indicative ( κείσομαι) is rare after words of fearing (Goodwin MT. p. 132), and represents the danger as imminent. To regard οὔ τι γέλωτα ὀφλεῖν as a reference to the Ecclesiazusae is rash and unjustifiable: see App. I.

προσκυνῶ κτλ. The apology looks forward, and not backward; whence δέ rather than δή (which Herwerden would read).

Ἀδράστειαν . Adrasteia was originally, perhaps, a personification of ἀνάγκη in its relation to humanity and the issues of human conduct. This meaning survived in the Orphic theology (Abel Orph. Fr. 36, 109—111) and appears in Phaedr. 248 C . Specifically, she was viewed as a variety of Nemesis, θεά τις τοὺς ὑπερηφάνους τιμωροῦσα (Schol. on Aesch. Prom. 936 ), and in this sense Aeschylus (l.c.) writes οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὴν Ἀδράστειαν σοφοί (the first mention of Adrasteia in Greek literature). Adrasteia is in a still more special sense the punisher of proud words; so that προσκυνῶ Ἀδράστειαν becomes, as here, a sort of apologetic preface to a bold assertion or rash utterance: cf. Eur. Rhes. 342 , 468 ( ξὺν δ’ Ἀδραστείᾳ λέγω). See Nägelsbach Nachhom. Theol. p. 47 and Seymour in the Proceedings of the Amer. Philol. Assoc. for July 1891 pp. XLVIII ff.

ἐλπίζω κτλ. ἐλπίζω is ‘I fancy,’ not ‘I expect’: cf. II 383 B note The omission of εἶναι is curious: Madvig would restore it after ἁμάρτημα. I can find no parallel to its omission with ἐλπίζω, but οἴομαι, ἡγοῦμαι and other verbs of thinking often dispense with it. For examples see Schanz Nov. Comm. Pl. p. 34.

καλῶν κτλ. : “concerning noble and good and just institutions” (D. and V.), not “about the beautiful, the good, and the just, in the matter of laws” (J. and C.). The latter explanation gives a good sense, but it is harsh to separate δικαίων from νομίμων, and still harsher to take καλῶν as equivalent to περὶ καλῶν. Schneider was inclined to treat δικαίων as a gloss on νομίμων. But ‘about things beautiful and good and institutions’ is an anti-climax; and, besides, it is of institutions in conjunction with, not as distinct from, justice etc. that Plato is about to speak. In his translation Schneider takes the right view.

εὖ . q has οὐκ εὖ, an obvious but audacious correction, suggested, no doubt, by καλῶς εἶχεν ἡ παραμυθία in 450 D. εὖ is ironical. Glauco had comforted Socrates by saying inter alia that his hearers were friendly ( οὔτε δύσνοι οἱ ἀκουσόμενοι 450 D). Excellent comfort! says Socrates: I had rather, in the circumstances, that they were enemies! Stallbaum and others read οὐκ εὖ, and Hermann οὐ, for εὖ, thinking the irony misplaced; but Glauco's smile ( γελάσας) favours the ironical interpretation, and so does the ‘Socratic irony’ with which the whole sentence is overflowing. I agree with J. and C. in rejecting the pointless alternative rendering ‘you do well to comfort me.’

ὥσπερ φόνου κτλ. See cr. n. καί before καθαρόν is absent from the great majority of MSS and can scarcely, I think, be sound: for the difference in meaning between καθαρόν and μὴ ἀπατεῶνα is hardly enough to carry off the double καί. ὥσπερ belongs to the whole expression φόνου καθαρόν, which is virtually one word. Hartman would expunge καὶ μὴ ἀπατεῶνα ἡμῶν, but it is quite in Plato's way to subjoin the interpretation of a metaphor or simile (cf. 470 C, VIII 553 D, 555 D, and my note on Prot. 314 A ), nor have we any right to excise such expressions wholesale, as many Dutch critics would do (especially J. J. Hartman de embl. in Pl. text. obviis 1898).

ἐκεῖ : viz. in cases of φόνος ἀκούσιος (so Schneider, Stallbaum, etc.), not (with D. and V.) ‘in the next world.’ κἀνθάδε is relevant only if it means ‘in this case too,’ i.e. ἐν τῷ ἀπατεῶνα εἶναι καλῶν τε καὶ ἀγαθῶν κτλ.: and this fixes the meaning of ἐκεῖ.

ὡς ὁ νόμος λέγει is explained by Dem. πρὸς Πανταίνετον 58 καὶ γὰρ ἀκούσιοι φόνοι—καὶ πολλὰ ἄλλα τοιαῦτα γίγνεται· ἀλλ’ ὅμως ἁπάντων τούτων ὅρος καὶ λύσις τοῖς παθοῦσι τέτακται τὸ πεισθέντας ἀφεῖναι, and ib. 59. See also Laws 869 E.

ἀνδρεῖον δρᾶμα κτλ. There is probably a playful allusion to the mimes of Sophron, as was first pointed out by R. Förster in Rhein. Mus. XXX (1875) p. 316. According to Suidas (s.v. Σώφρων) and others, Sophron's mimes were classified as ἀνδρεῖοι μῖμοι and γυναικεῖοι μῖμοι. In the former, as may be inferred from Choricius' Defence of Mimes (first published by Graux in Revue de Philologie 1 pp. 209 ff.) Sophron represented male characters, in the latter female ( μιμεῖται μὲν ἄνδρας, μιμεῖται δὲ γύναια ib. p. 215). This is corroborated by many of the titles of his plays, such as ὁ ἀγροιώτας, ὁ θυνναθήρας, ὁ ἄγγελος contrasted with ταὶ ἀκ<*>στρίαι, ἁ νυμφόπονος, ἁ πενθερά etc. Sophron's mimes are called δράματα (cf. ἀνδρεῖον δρᾶμα) by Demetrius περὶ ἑρμηνείας § 156 σχεδόν τε πάσας ἐκ τῶν δραμάτων αὐτοῦ τὰς παροιμίας ἐκλέξαι ἐστίν. The point here is that just as custom required an ἀνδρεῖος μῖμος to precede a γυναικεῖος—this is not otherwise attested, so far as I can discover—, so it will be proper ( ὀρθῶς ἂν ἔχοι) for Plato's women to come on the stage after his men have played their part. Plato's partiality for Sophron is frequently mentioned by ancient authors, as for example by D. L. III 18, Quintil. I 10. 17: see Schuster in Rhein. Mus. XXIX (1874) pp. 605 ff., where these and other authorities are cited. Susemihl (Bursian's Jahresbericht 1874—1875 III p. 343) doubted whether Plato has Sophron in view here; but the allusion, which was admitted by Graux (l.c. p. 215 note), and successfully reaffirmed by Förster ( Rhein. Mus. for 1880 p. 472), is highly probable. I can see no point in making δρᾶμα γυναικεῖον an ironical reference to the Ecclesiazusae of Aristophanes (with Munk die nat. Ordnung d. Pl. Schr. p. 296, and Chiappelli l.c. p. 196), nor is it likely that the words allude to a dramatic caricature of Plato's policy by some other comedian, as is supposed by Bergk Gr. Literaturgesch. IV p. 462 note 134. On Sophron's prose-mimes as a preparation for the Socratic Dialogue see Hirzel der Dialog I pp. 20—26.

κατ’ ἐκείνην κτλ. : “in following out that original impulse which we communicated to them” (D. and V.).

ὡρμήσαμεν (sc. αὐτούς) is causative, and not intransitive, as Jowett supposes.

ἀγέλης . Cf. II 375 D and infra 460 C, 466 D notes

πλὴν κτλ. One MS inserts ταῖς μέν after πλήν; but, “ ταῖς θηλείαις utpote ex ipsa sententia et ex adjectivo ἀσθενεστέραις facile intelligendum enuntiatum non est” (Schneider). Schneider's explanation is more accurate than to say (with Stallbaum) that ταῖς μέν is idiomatically suppressed, like τὸ μέν before ἄλλο in Prot. 330 A ( ἄλλο, τὸ δὲ ἄλλο): cf. infra 455 E. This passage is thus criticised by Aristotle ( Pol. B. 5. 1264^{b} 4) ἄτοπον δὲ καὶ τὸ ἐκ τῶν θηρίων ποιεῖσθαι τὴν παραβολήν, ὅτι δεῖ τὰ αὐτὰ ἐπιτηδεύειν τὰς γυναῖκας τοῖς ἀνδράσιν, οἷς οἰκονομίας οὐδὲν μέτεστιν. But, from Plato's point of view, the analogy holds; for he regards οἰκονομία as παρὰ φύσιν even for human beings, and aims at abolishing it.