Plato, Republic, Paul Shorey (Translator), 10.613

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[613] And shall we not agree that all things that come from the gods 613a work together for the best¹ for him that is dear to the gods, apart from the inevitable evil caused by sin in a former life²? By all means. This, then, must be our conviction about the just man, that whether he fall into poverty or disease or any other supposed evil, for him all these things will finally prove good, both in life and in death. For by the gods assuredly that man will never be neglected who is willing and eager to be righteous, and by the practice of virtue to be likened unto god³ 613b so far as that is possible for man. It is reasonable, he said, that such a one should not be neglected by his like.⁴ And must we not think the opposite of the unjust man? Most emphatically. Such then are the prizes of victory which the gods bestow upon the just. So I think, at any rate, he said. But what, said I, does he receive from men? Is not this the case, if we are now to present the reality? Do not your smart but wicked men fare as those racers do who run well⁵ from the scratch but not back from the turn? They bound nimbly away at the start, but in the end 613c are laughed to scorn and run off the field uncrowned and with their ears on their shoulders.⁶ But the true runners when they have come to the goal receive the prizes and bear away the crown. Is not this the usual outcome for the just also, that towards the end of every action and association and of life as a whole they have honor and bear away the prizes from men? So it is indeed. Will you, then, bear with me if I say of them 613d all that you said⁷ of the unjust? For I am going to say that the just, when they become older, hold the offices in their own city if they choose, marry from what families they will, and give their children in marriage to what families they please, and everything that you said of the one I now repeat of the other; and in turn I will say of the unjust that the most of them, even if they escape detection in youth, at the end of their course are caught and derided, and their old age is made miserable by the contumelies of strangers and townsfolk. 613e They are lashed and suffer all things⁸ which you truly said are unfit for ears polite.⁹ Suppose yourself to have heard from me a repetition of all that they suffer. But, as I say, consider whether you will bear with me. Assuredly, he said, for what you say is just.

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 10.613 focus

[613]
τῷ δὲ θεοφιλεῖ οὐχ ὁμολογήσομεν, ὅσα γε ἀπὸ θεῶν 613a γίγνεται, πάντα γίγνεσθαι ὡς οἷόν τε ἄριστα, εἰ μή τι ἀναγκαῖον αὐτῷ κακὸν ἐκ προτέρας ἁμαρτίας ὑπῆρχεν;
πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
οὕτως ἄρα ὑποληπτέον περὶ τοῦ δικαίου ἀνδρός, ἐάντʼ ἐν πενίᾳ γίγνηται ἐάντʼ ἐν νόσοις ἤ τινι ἄλλῳ τῶν δοκούντων κακῶν, ὡς τούτῳ ταῦτα εἰς ἀγαθόν τι τελευτήσει ζῶντι ἢ καὶ ἀποθανόντι. οὐ γὰρ δὴ ὑπό γε θεῶν ποτε ἀμελεῖται ὃς ἂν προθυμεῖσθαι ἐθέλῃ δίκαιος γίγνεσθαι καὶ ἐπιτηδεύων 613b ἀρετὴν εἰς ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀνθρώπῳ ὁμοιοῦσθαι θεῷ.
εἰκός γʼ, ἔφη, τὸν τοιοῦτον μὴ ἀμελεῖσθαι ὑπὸ τοῦ ὁμοίου.
οὐκοῦν περὶ τοῦ ἀδίκου τἀναντία τούτων δεῖ διανοεῖσθαι;
σφόδρα γε.
τὰ μὲν δὴ παρὰ θεῶν τοιαῦτʼ ἄττʼ ἂν εἴη νικητήρια τῷ δικαίῳ.
κατὰ γοῦν ἐμὴν δόξαν, ἔφη.
τί δέ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, παρʼ ἀνθρώπων; ἆρʼ οὐχ ὧδε ἔχει, εἰ δεῖ τὸ ὂν τιθέναι; οὐχ οἱ μὲν δεινοί τε καὶ ἄδικοι δρῶσιν ὅπερ οἱ δρομῆς ὅσοι ἂν θέωσιν εὖ ἀπὸ τῶν κάτω, ἀπὸ δὲ τῶν ἄνω μή; τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ὀξέως ἀποπηδῶσιν, τελευτῶντες 613c δὲ καταγέλαστοι γίγνονται, τὰ ὦτα ἐπὶ τῶν ὤμων ἔχοντες καὶ ἀστεφάνωτοι ἀποτρέχοντες· οἱ δὲ τῇ ἀληθείᾳ δρομικοὶ εἰς τέλος ἐλθόντες τά τε ἆθλα λαμβάνουσιν καὶ στεφανοῦνται. οὐχ οὕτω καὶ περὶ τῶν δικαίων τὸ πολὺ συμβαίνει; πρὸς τὸ τέλος ἑκάστης πράξεως καὶ ὁμιλίας καὶ τοῦ βίου εὐδοκιμοῦσί τε καὶ τὰ ἆθλα παρὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων φέρονται;
καὶ μάλα.
ἀνέξῃ ἄρα λέγοντος ἐμοῦ περὶ τούτων ἅπερ αὐτὸς ἔλεγες 613d περὶ τῶν ἀδίκων; ἐρῶ γὰρ δὴ ὅτι οἱ μὲν δίκαιοι, ἐπειδὰν πρεσβύτεροι γένωνται, ἐν τῇ αὑτῶν πόλει ἄρχουσί τε ἂν βούλωνται τὰς ἀρχάς, γαμοῦσί τε ὁπόθεν ἂν βούλωνται, ἐκδιδόασί τε εἰς οὓς ἂν ἐθέλωσι· καὶ πάντα ἃ σὺ περὶ ἐκείνων, ἐγὼ νῦν λέγω περὶ τῶνδε. καὶ αὖ καὶ περὶ τῶν ἀδίκων, ὅτι οἱ πολλοὶ αὐτῶν, καὶ ἐὰν νέοι ὄντες λάθωσιν, ἐπὶ τέλους τοῦ δρόμου αἱρεθέντες καταγέλαστοί εἰσιν καὶ γέροντες γιγνόμενοι ἄθλιοι προπηλακίζονται ὑπὸ ξένων τε 613e καὶ ἀστῶν, μαστιγούμενοι καὶ ἃ ἄγροικα ἔφησθα σὺ εἶναι, ἀληθῆ λέγων—εἶτα στρεβλώσονται καὶ ἐκκαυθήσονται— πάντα ἐκεῖνα οἴου καὶ ἐμοῦ ἀκηκοέναι ὡς πάσχουσιν. ἀλλʼ ὃ λέγω, ὅρα εἰ ἀνέξῃ.
καὶ πάνυ, ἔφη· δίκαια γὰρ λέγεις.

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. This recalls the faith of Socrates in Apol. 41 C-D and Phaedo 63 B-C, and anticipates the theodicy of Laws 899 D ff., 904 D-E ff.

2. Besides obvious analogies with Buddhism, this recalls Empedocles fr. 115, Diels i3 p. 267.

3. Cf.

ὁμοίωσις θεῷ

Theaet. 176 B, and What Plato Said, p. 578, p. 72, note d.

4. Cf. Laws 716 C-D, 904 E.

5. For the order Cf. Laws 913 B

λεγόμενον εὖ

, Thucyd. i. 71. 7, Vahlen, Op. acad. i. 495-496. for the figure of the race cf. Eurip. El. 955, 1 Corinthians ix. 24 f., Heb. xii. 1, Gal. ii. 2, v. 7, Phil. ii. 16.

6. English idiom would say, with their tails between their legs. Cf. Horace, Sat. i. 9. 20

dimitto auriculas.

For the idea cf. also Laws 730 C-D, Demosth. ii. 10, and for εἰς τέλος, Laws 899 E

πρὸς τέλος

, Hesiod, Works and Days 216

ἐς τέλος ἐξελθοῦσα

, Eurip. Ion 1621

εἰς τέλος γὰρ οἱ μὲν ἐσθλοὶ τυγχάνουσιν ἀξίων

for the good at last shall overcome, at last attain their right.

(Way, Loeb tr.)

7. Cf. Vol. I. pp. 125-127, 362 B-C.

8. He turns the tables here as in Gorg. 527 A. The late punishment of the wicked became an ethical commonplace. Cf. Plutarch’s De sera numinis vindicta 1, also Job and Psalms passim.

9. Cf. 361 E

ἀγροικοτέρως

, and Gorg. 473 C.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

προτέρας ἁμαρτίας =‘former sin’ means the sins committed in a previous existence. Hence the imperfect ὑπῆρχεν (‘was to him from the first,’ i.e. from the moment of his birth).

οὐ γὰρ δὴ ὑπό γε θεῶν κτλ. Cf. (with Morgenstern de Plat. rep. comment. p. 141) Ap. 41 C , D and, for a proof of the divine Providence, Laws 899 D ff.

εἰς ὅσον δυνατὸν ‐‐ θεῷ . ὁμοίωσις θεῷ κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν is the ethical end for man: see Theaet. 176 B —177 A, and cf. II 383 C, VI 500 C, D, 501 B, C, and Laws 716 B—D together with the μελέτη θανάτου of the Phaedo and the old Pythagorean maxims ἕπου θεῷ, ἀκολουθεῖν τῷ θεῷ. Cf. also Rohde Psyche^{2} pp. 163, 285— 287.

ὅσοι ἂν ‐‐ μὴ κτλ. : “who run well from the lower end of the course to the upper, but not from the upper to the lower” etc. (J. and C.). Plato is thinking of the δίαυλος, and calls the outward and homeward journeys respectively ἀπὸ τῶν κάτω and ἀπὸ τῶν ἄνω. We must suppose, although there seems to be no other authority for the supposition, that the end from which the competitors started was spoken of as ‘down’ and the other end as ‘up.’ Schneider suggests that the outward limit may have stood higher, but Greek stadia seem always to have been level. The use of ἄνω and κάτω is as in περιπατεῖν ἄνω κάτω ( Ar. Lys. 709 ), εἷρπ’ ἄνω τε καὶ κάτω ( Eur. H. F. 953 ), and other examples quoted in Stephanus-Hase Thes. s.v. ἄνω p. 1063. The subject of ἀποπηδῶσι is not οἱ δρομῆς, but οἱ δεινοί τε καὶ ἄδικοι: so that τὸ μὲν πρῶτον corresponds roughly to ἀπὸ τῶν κάτω, and τελευτῶντες to ἀπὸ τῶν ἄνω. This interpretation is that of Schneider and the other editors. A wholly different view is taken by Riddell ( Digest § 111) and Madvig. They understand τὰ κάτω of the lower, and τὰ ἄνω of the upper parts of the body (“who run fairly with their legs, but with the upper part of their bodies—head, neck, arms—in bad form” Riddell l.c. For the use of ἀπό cf. Laws 795 B, 832 E and Xen. Rep. Lac. 5. 9). But an allusion to the physiology of bad running is not in place here, and it is difficult to resist the impression that ἀπὸ τῶν κάτω and ἀπὸ τῶν ἄνω are significant parts of the comparison. On Riddell's view they are not, for there is nothing in the career of the clever and unjust which can well be illustrated by ‘running fairly with their legs’ etc. The point is, as τὸ μὲν πρῶτον—ἀποτρέχοντες expressly states, that they do well at first, but collapse before the end, like runners who run well as far as the καμπτήρ, but break down in the second half of the δίαυλος. For the illustration from the games cf. V 465 D note

τὰ ὦτα ‐‐ ἔχοντες . “A metaphor taken from horses and other animals, which let their ears drop when they are tired and overdriven” Thomas Gray. Schneider quotes Photius p. 572. 14 Porson τὰ ὦτα ἐπὶ τῶν ὤμων ἔχοντες· ἐπισείοντες τὴν κεφαλήν· ὃ ποιοῦσιν ἐκλελυμένοι. With οἱ δὲ τῇ ἀληθείᾳ—στεφανοῦνται cf. Pythag. Simil. 22 in Mullach Frag. Phil. Gr. I p. 486 τοῖς μὲν σταδιοδραμοῦσιν ἐπὶ τῷ τέρματι τὸ βραβεῖον τῆς νίκης, τοῖς δὲ φιλοπονήσασιν ἐπὶ τοῦ γήρως τὸ πρωτεῖον τῆς φρονήσεως ἀπόκειται .

ἔλεγες . II 362 B.

ἄθλιοι προπηλακίζονται : “are insulted in their misery” (D. and V.). ἄθλιοι is not altogether predicative (“are miserably insulted” J. and C.), although it goes more closely with προπηλακίζονται than with γέροντες γιγνόμενοι. Schneider translates “und Greise werdend bittere Schmach erdulden müssen.”

ἄγροικα ἔφησθα . II 361 E.

λέγων . See cr. n. I agree with Ast, Hermann, and Stallbaum in omitting εἶτα στρεβλώσονται καὶ ἐκκαυθήσονται “quia nec tempus antecedentibus congruit, nec sententiae ratio Socratem singula supplicia enumerare patitur” (Stallbaum). The passage to which the words refer runs as follows: μαστιγώσεται, στρεβλώσεται, δεδήσεται, ἐκκαυθήσεται τὠφθαλμώ (II 361 E): and εἶτα—ἐκκαυθήσονται (‘after that’—i.e. after they have been scourged —‘they will be racked’ etc.) is probably a marginal note intended to remind us of the further tortures specified in the earlier passage. Schneider and the Oxford editors retain the words as a parenthesis, which is, to say the least, exceedingly awkward.<

Plato Republic 10.613

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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