Plato Republic 10.600

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 10.600 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. On the literature of inventions, εὑρήματα, see Newman ii. p. 382 on Aristot. Pol. 1274 b 4. Cf. Virgil, Aen. vi. 663
inventas aut qui vitam excoluere per artes,
and Symp. 209 A.
2. Diog. Laert. i. 23-27.
3. Diog. Laert. i. 105 says he was reported to be the inventor of the anchor and the potter’s wheel.
4. In the (spurious?) seventh epistle, 328 A, Plato speaks of the life and λόγος advocated by himself. Cf. Novotny, Plato’s Epistles, p. 168.
5. Diels i3 pp. 27 f.
6. Cf.
ὀρφικοὶ . . . βίοι
Laws 782 C.
7. Of the beef-clan. The scholiast says he was a Chian and an epic poet. See Callimachus’s epigram apud Sext. Empir., Bekker, p. 609 ( Adv. Math. i. 48), and Suidas s. v. κρεώφυλος
8. Modern Greeks also are often very sensitive to the etymology of proper names. Cf. also on 580 B, p. 369, note d.
9. See on 540 B, p. 230, note d.
10. Cf. Prot. 315 A-B, 316 C.
11. See What Plato Said, p. 486, on Laches 197 D.
12. For διοικεῖν Cf. Protag. 318 E.
13. See Thompson on Meno 70 B.
14. On μόνον οὐκ Cf. Menex. 235 C, Ax. 365 B.
15. Stallbaum refers to Themist. Orat. xxii. p. 254 A
ὃν ἡμεῖς διὰ ταύτην τὴν φαντασίαν μόνον οὐκ ἐπὶ ταῖς κεφαλαῖς περιφέρομεν
, Erasmus, Chiliad iv. Cent. 7 n. 98 p. 794, and the German idiom einen auf den Händen tragen.
16. Cf. Protag. 328 B.
17. The article perhaps gives the word a contemptuous significance. So Meno 89 B
τὸ χρυσίον
.
18. οἴκοι εἶναι: J. J. Hartman, Ad Platonis Remp. 600 E, Mnem. 1916, p. 45, would change εἶναι to μεῖναι. But cf. Cic. Att. vii. 10
erimus una.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

εἰς τὰ ἔργα should be connected with σοφοῦ. The omission of εἰς in A^{1} (see cr. n.) is apparently accidental, for it occurs in all other MSS.

Θάλεώ τε ‐‐ καὶ Ἀναχάρσιος . Plato retains the Ionic genitive in the Ionic name: cf. Arist. Pol. A 11. 1259^{a} 6 Θάλεω τοῦ Μιλησίου. On Thales' useful discoveries see Zeller^{5} I p. 183 note 2. Anacharsis was credited by some authorities with the invention of the anchor and the potter's wheel (D. L. I 105).

ὁδόν τινα ‐‐ βίου Ὁμηρικήν . Yet in another and wider sense Homer was the founder of a ‘way of life,’ and the ὁδὸς Ὁμηρική, which Plato so strongly condemns in Books II and III, was in fact the ὁδὸς Ἑλληνική (Reber Platon u. die Poesie p. 25). From this point of view Plato's antagonism to Homer is only a symptom of his profound dissent from much that we are accustomed to regard as essentially characteristic of the Greek view of life. See on V 470 E and Bohne Wie gelangt P. zur Aufstellung s. Staatsideals, etc. p. 38.

Πυθαγόρειον τρόπον ‐‐ τοῦ βίου . The aim of the Πυθαγόρειος βίος was ἕπεσθαι θεῷ, and the rules of abstinence etc. by which its votaries sought to ‘follow God’ made them conspicuous ( διαφανεῖς) and exceptional among the Greeks. See Rohde Psyche^{2} II pp. 159 —171.

ὁ γὰρ Κρεώφυλος κτλ. Κρεώφιλος was read before Ast on slight MS authority, and gives an excellent sense to τοῦ ὀνόματος—φανείη: but Κρεώφυ—λος is confirmed by all the best MSS, as well as by Callimachus ( Epigr. 6 ap. Strabo XIV 638 Κρεωφύλου πόνος εἰμὶ κτλ.) and others: see Pape-Benseler s.v. Plato speaks of him as Homer's friend or disciple (for ἑταῖρος has this meaning here: cf. ἑταίρους in C and Soph. 216 A ἑταῖρον —τῶν ἀμφὶ Παρμενίδην κτλ. with Bonitz Ind. Arist. s.v.): others, including the Scholiast, say he was his son-in-law. The Epic poem Οἰχαλίας ἅλωσις was ascribed to Creophylus by Callimachus (l.c.): but according to another tradition, Creophylus received the poem from Homer himself in return for hospitality (Suidas s.v. Κρεώφυλος).

τοῦ ὀνόματος ‐‐ ἔζη . Cf. Cic. de repub. III Frag. 38 Nobbe Sardanapalus ille vitio multo quam nomine ipso deformior (as if Σαρδανό‐φαλλος). Κρεώφυ—λος (from κρέας and φῦλον: ‘Carnigena’ ‘Fleischgeburt,’ suggests Schneider) is an ὄνομα γέλοιον πρὸς παιδείαν: for Beef suggests anything but culture. “I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wits” ( Twelfth Night I 3. 90). The Greeks had the same feeling: cf. Plato's remarks on the effects of over-much feeding and athletics in III 411 C—E μισόλογος δή, οἶμαι, ὁ τοιοῦτος γίγνεται καὶ ἄμουσος, and Euripides Frag. 284 D indorf, with the comic fragment παχεῖα γαστὴρ λεπτὸν οὐ τίκτει νόον. Plato means that the proof of the pudding is in the eating: Homer must have been a poor teacher if his disciples (including Creophylus) learnt so little. Had he taught them successfully they would have proved their παιδεία by treating their master more respectfully: cf. Gorg. 519 C , D, where we are told that if teachers of δικαιοσύνη do not get paid by their pupils, it only shews that they have failed to teach their subject and therefore deserve no fees. λέγεται— ἔζη means ‘for it is said that he was much neglected even in his own age, when he was alive,’ whereas it is precisely during his lifetime that he would have been most respected if he had taught to any purpose: witness the enthusiasm aroused by Protagoras, Prodicus and other teachers! Thus understood, ὅτε ἔζη has a strong rhetorical emphasis and ought not to be discarded (with Cobet, Baiter, and Herwerden). For ἐκείνου after αὐτοῦ referring to the same person cf. VII 538 B and Riddell Digest of Platonic Idioms p. 143 § 49. If we adopt Ast's conjecture and read ὑπ’ αὐτοῦ ἐκείνου, the passage gains a little in point, because αὐτοῦ ἐκείνου will then refer to Creophylus: but it is difficult to make the subject of ἔζη different from the antecedent of αὐτοῦ ἐκείνου, and on the whole I no longer think there is any good reason for deserting the MSS.

ἀλλ’ οἴει κτλ. For οἴει thus used cf. Men. 93 C with Heindorf on Theaet. 147 B .

Πρωταγόρας μὲν ἄρα κτλ. With the structure of the sentence cf. (with Stallbaum) Crit. 50 E and Prot. 325 B , C, where ἄρα occurs, as here, in both clauses. See also on I 336 E and App. IV to Book I. Prodicus survived to 399 at least, but Protagoras seems to have died about 411; so that if the date of action of the dialogue is 410, the reference to Protagoras as apparently still living may seem an anachronism. But the slip is a trifling one in any case; and Socrates might quite well have spoken as he does even if either or both of the persons had recently died. See Introd. § 3.

οὔτε οἰκίαν ‐‐ παιδείας . Cf. Prot. 318 E ff. and Men. 91 A ff.

ἐπὶ ταῖς κεφαλαῖς περιφέρουσιν : ‘carry about shoulder-high’ (“auf den Händen tragen” Schneider). Ast quotes Dio Chrys. Or. IX p. 141 A ὑψηλὸν φερόμενον ὑπὸ τοῦ ὄχλου, and the imitation of this passage by Themistius Or. XXI p. 254 A ὃν ἡμεῖς διὰ ταύτην τὴν φαντασίαν μόνον οὐκ ἐπὶ ταῖς κεφαλαῖς περιφέρομεν. It is clear that the phrase has a honorific meaning, so that it cannot be, as Erasmus (quoted by Ast) imagined, “translatum—a matribus ac nutricibus, quae infantulos cunis impositos capite portant,” whether children were thus carried in antiquity or no.

ὀνινάναι . See cr. n. I agree with Hermann, Baiter and the Oxford editors in preferring ὀνινάναι to ὀνῆναι (so Bekker and Schneider on slight MS authority) or ὀνῆσαι (Stallbaum, after one MS of Aristides II p. 432). ὀνῆναι is a very dubious formation, and the present gives a better meaning than the aorist. The error arose from lipography of ‐να‐: and ὀνεῖναι, ὀνῆναι look like attempts to make the residue into an infinitive.

παρὰ σφίσιν οἴκοι εἶναι : ‘to be with them in their homes.’ παρὰ σφίσιν οἰκεῖν, which Cobet ( V. L.^{2} p. 534) and Herwerden desire to read, would not necessarily mean more than ‘to dwell in their country.’ With the sentiment cf. Men. 89 B (quoted below).

αὐτοὶ ἂν ἐπαιδαγώγουν : ‘they would have made themselves their tutors and escorted them’ etc. παιδαγωγεῖν is used in the same playful way in Alc. I 135 D κινδυνεύσομεν μεταβαλεῖν τὸ σχῆμα, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ μὲν σὸν ἐγώ, σὺ δὲ τοὐμόν· οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ὅπως οὐ παιδαγωγήσω σε ἀπὸ τῆσδε τῆς ἡμέρας, σὺ δ’ ὑπ’ ἐμοῦ παιδαγωγήσει. The proverb δὶς παῖδες οἱ γέροντες perhaps lends an additional point to ἐπαιδαγώγουν, as in Soph. Fr. 623 Dindorf= Eur. Bacch. 193 γέρων γέροντα παιδαγωγήσω σ’ ἐγώ.

μεταλάβοιεν . The regular sequence would be μετέλαβον, but cf. Men. 89 B οὓς ἡμεῖς ἂν—ἐφυλάττομεν ἐν ἀκροπόλει, κατασημηνάμενοι πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ χρυσίον, ἵνα μηδεὶς αὐτοὺς διέφθειρεν ( διαφθείρειεν conj. Madvig), ἀλλ’ ἐπειδὴ ἀφίκοιντο εἰς τὴν ἡλικίαν, χρήσιμοι γίγνοιντο ταῖς πόλεσιν. The difference is the difference between ‘should’ and ‘should have.’

πάντας τοὺς ποιητικούς : see on 595 C.

μιμητὰς εἰδώλων : ‘imitators of images.’ The words can scarcely mean ‘forgers of semblances,’ ‘imitative makers of shadows,’ as suggested by J. and C., in spite of 599 D εἰδώλου δημιουργός and τοῦ εἰδώλου ποιητής in 601 B. The images which the poet manufactures are in fact images of images, according to both 598 B and 596 B ff.: cf. 602 B note

νῦν δή . 598 B, C.

ὁ ζῳγράφος κτλ. : ‘the painter will make what seems to be a shoemaker, in the eyes of those who understand as little about shoemaking as he does himself, but judge by colour and form.’ The dative is the dative of person judging, and does not directly depend on δοκοῦντα εἶναι, though doubtless affected by it. This explanation is better, I think, than to construe τοῖς μὴ ἐπαΐουσιν either directly with δοκεῖν (so Vermehren Pl. St. p. 120, comparing ὥστε ἑτέροις—δοκεῖν below), or with ποιήσει (“und für diejenigen, die auch nichts verstehen” Schneider).