Plato, Ion, William Rangeley Maitland Lamb (Translator), 541

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541a

Soc.

What, no difference, do you say? Do you mean that the art of the rhapsode and the general is one, not two?

Ion.

It is one, to my mind.

Soc.

So that anyone who is a good rhapsode is also, in fact, a good general?

Ion.

Certainly, Socrates.

Soc.

And again, anyone who happens to be a good general is also a good rhapsode.

Ion.

No there I do not agree.

Soc.

But still you agree that anyone who is a good rhapsode 541b is also a good general?

Ion.

To be sure.

Soc.

And you are the best rhapsode in Greece ?

Ion.

Far the best, Socrates.

Soc.

Are you also, Ion, the best general in Greece ?

Ion.

Be sure of it, Socrates and that I owe to my study of Homer.

Soc.

Then how, in Heaven’s name, can it be, Ion, that you, who are both the best general and the best rhapsode in Greece , go about performing as a rhapsode to the Greeks, but not as a general? 541c Or do you suppose that the Greeks feel a great need of a rhapsode in the glory of his golden crown, but of a general none at all?

Ion.

It is because my city, ¹ Socrates, is under the rule and generalship of your people, and is not in want of a general; whilst you and Sparta would not choose me as a general, since you think you manage well enough for yourselves.

Soc.

My excellent Ion, you are acquainted with Apollodorus ² of Cyzicus , are you not?

Ion.

What might he be?

Soc.

A man whom the Athenians have often chosen as their general, though a foreigner; 541d and Phanosthenes ³ of Andros , and Heracleides ⁴ of Clazomenae, whom my city invests with the high command and other offices although they are foreigners, because they have proved themselves to be competent. And will she not choose Ion of Ephesus as her general, and honor him, if he shows himself competent? Why, you Ephesians are by origin Athenians, ⁵ are you not, and Ephesus is inferior to no city? 541e But in fact, Ion, if you are right in saying it is by art and knowledge that you are able to praise Homer, you are playing me false: you have professed to me that you know any amount of fine things about Homer, and you promise to display them; but you are only deceiving me, and so far from displaying the subjects of your skill, you decline even to tell me what they are, for all my entreaties.

Ion. Plato. William Rangeley Maitland Lamb (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1925.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Ion (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 8. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd., 1925 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Ἴων Perseus (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.) — 541 focus

[541] 541 541a

ΣΩ.

πῶς; οὐδὲν λέγεις διαφέρειν; μίαν λέγεις τέχνην εἶναι τὴν ῥαψῳδικὴν καὶ τὴν στρατηγικὴν ἢ δύο;

ΙΩΝ.

μία ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.

ΣΩ.

ὅστις ἄρα ἀγαθὸς ῥαψῳδός ἐστιν, οὗτος καὶ ἀγαθὸς στρατηγὸς τυγχάνει ὤν;

ΙΩΝ.

μάλιστα, ὦ Σώκρατες.

ΣΩ.

οὐκοῦν καὶ ὅστις ἀγαθὸς στρατηγὸς τυγχάνει ὤν, ἀγαθὸς καὶ ῥαψῳδός ἐστιν.

ΙΩΝ.

οὐκ αὖ μοι δοκεῖ τοῦτο.

ΣΩ.

ἀλλʼ ἐκεῖνο μὴν δοκεῖ σοι, ὅστις γε ἀγαθὸς 541b ῥαψῳδός, καὶ στρατηγὸς ἀγαθὸς εἶναι;

ΙΩΝ.

πάνυ γε.

ΣΩ.

οὐκοῦν σὺ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἄριστος ῥαψῳδὸς εἶ;

ΙΩΝ.

πολύ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες.

ΣΩ.

ἦ καὶ στρατηγός, ὦ Ἴων, τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἄριστος εἶ;

ΙΩΝ.

εὖ ἴσθι, ὦ Σώκρατες· καὶ ταῦτά γε ἐκ τῶν Ὁμήρου μαθών.

ΣΩ.

τί δή ποτʼ οὖν πρὸς τῶν θεῶν, ὦ Ἴων, ἀμφότερα ἄριστος ὢν τῶν Ἑλλήνων, καὶ στρατηγὸς καὶ ῥαψῳδός, ῥαψῳδεῖς μὲν περιιὼν τοῖς Ἕλλησι, στρατηγεῖς δʼ οὔ; ἢ 541c ῥαψῳδοῦ μὲν δοκεῖ σοι χρυσῷ στεφάνῳ ἐστεφανωμένου πολλὴ χρεία εἶναι τοῖς Ἕλλησι, στρατηγοῦ δὲ οὐδεμία;

ΙΩΝ.

ἡ μὲν γὰρ ἡμετέρα, ὦ Σώκρατες, πόλις ἄρχεται ὑπὸ ὑμῶν καὶ στρατηγεῖται καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖται στρατηγοῦ, ἡ δὲ ὑμετέρα καὶ ἡ Λακεδαιμονίων οὐκ ἄν με ἕλοιτο στρατηγόν· αὐτοὶ γὰρ οἴεσθε ἱκανοὶ εἶναι.

ΣΩ.

ὦ βέλτιστε Ἴων, Ἀπολλόδωρον οὐ γιγνώσκεις τὸν Κυζικηνόν;

ΙΩΝ.

ποῖον τοῦτον;

ΣΩ.

ὃν Ἀθηναῖοι πολλάκις ἑαυτῶν στρατηγὸν ᾕρηνται 541d ξένον ὄντα· καὶ Φανοσθένη τὸν Ἄνδριον καὶ Ἡρακλείδην τὸν Κλαζομένιον, οὓς ἥδε ἡ πόλις ξένους ὄντας, ἐνδειξαμένους ὅτι ἄξιοι λόγου εἰσί, καὶ εἰς στρατηγίας καὶ εἰς τὰς ἄλλας ἀρχὰς ἄγει· Ἴωνα δʼ ἄρα τὸν Ἐφέσιον οὐχ αἱρήσεται στρατηγὸν καὶ τιμήσει, ἐὰν δοκῇ ἄξιος λόγου εἶναι; τί δέ; οὐκ Ἀθηναῖοι μέν ἐστε οἱ Ἐφέσιοι τὸ ἀρχαῖον, καὶ ἡ Ἔφεσος 541e οὐδεμιᾶς ἐλάττων πόλεως; ἀλλὰ γὰρ σύ, ὦ Ἴων, εἰ μὲν ἀληθῆ λέγεις ὡς τέχνῃ καὶ ἐπιστήμῃ οἷός τε εἶ Ὅμηρον ἐπαινεῖν, ἀδικεῖς, ὅστις ἐμοὶ ὑποσχόμενος ὡς πολλὰ καὶ καλὰ περὶ Ὁμήρου ἐπίστασαι καὶ φάσκων ἐπιδείξειν, ἐξαπατᾷς με καὶ πολλοῦ δεῖς ἐπιδεῖξαι, ὅς γε οὐδὲ ἅττα ἐστὶ ταῦτα περὶ ὧν δεινὸς εἶ ἐθέλεις εἰπεῖν, πάλαι ἐμοῦ λιπαροῦντος,

Notes on the current edition

Ion

1. Ephesus .

2. Nothing else is known of this general.

3. Captured the Thurian admiral Dorieus, 407 B. C.

4. Nothing else is known of this general.

5. Androclus of Attica founded Ephesus as the Ionian city known to the Greeks of Plato’s time.

Plato Ion 541

William Rangeley Maitland Lamb (Translator)

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Current edition Perseus

ΣΩ.

ΙΩΝ.

ΣΩ.

ΙΩΝ.

ΣΩ.

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ΣΩ.

ΙΩΝ.

ΣΩ.

ΙΩΝ.

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ΣΩ.

ΙΩΝ.

ΣΩ.

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ΣΩ.

Notes on the current edition

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