Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 342

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[342]

ΣΩ.

ἀλλʼ ἅ μοι δοκεῖ διανοεῖσθαι Σιμωνίδης ἐν τούτῳ τῷ ᾁσματι, ἐθέλω σοι εἰπεῖν, 342 342a εἰ βούλει λαβεῖν μου πεῖραν ὅπως ἔχω, ὃ σὺ λέγεις τοῦτο, περὶ ἐπῶν· ἐὰν δὲ βούλῃ, σοῦ ἀκούσομαι.
ὁ μὲν οὖν Πρωταγόρας ἀκούσας μου ταῦτα λέγοντος, εἰ σὺ βούλει, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες· ὁ δὲ Πρόδικός τε καὶ ὁ Ἱππίας ἐκελευέτην πάνυ, καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι.
ἐγὼ τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἅ γέ μοι δοκεῖ περὶ τοῦ ᾄσματος τούτου, πειράσομαι ὑμῖν διεξελθεῖν. φιλοσοφία γάρ ἐστιν παλαιοτάτη τε καὶ πλείστη τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἐν Κρήτῃ τε καὶ 342b ἐν Λακεδαίμονι, καὶ σοφισταὶ πλεῖστοι γῆς ἐκεῖ εἰσιν· ἀλλʼ ἐξαρνοῦνται καὶ σχηματίζονται ἀμαθεῖς εἶναι, ἵνα μὴ κατάδηλοι ὦσιν ὅτι σοφίᾳ τῶν Ἑλλήνων περίεισιν, ὥσπερ οὓς Πρωταγόρας ἔλεγε τοὺς σοφιστάς, ἀλλὰ δοκῶσιν τῷ μάχεσθαι καὶ ἀνδρείᾳ περιεῖναι, ἡγούμενοι, εἰ γνωσθεῖεν ᾧ περίεισιν, πάντας τοῦτο ἀσκήσειν, τὴν σοφίαν. νῦν δὲ ἀποκρυψάμενοι ἐκεῖνο ἐξηπατήκασιν τοὺς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι λακωνίζοντας, καὶ οἱ μὲν ὦτά τε κατάγνυνται μιμούμενοι 342c αὐτούς, καὶ ἱμάντας περιειλίττονται καὶ φιλογυμναστοῦσιν καὶ βραχείας ἀναβολὰς φοροῦσιν, ὡς δὴ τούτοις κρατοῦντας τῶν Ἑλλήνων τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίους· οἱ δὲ Λακεδαιμόνιοι, ἐπειδὰν βούλωνται ἀνέδην τοῖς παρʼ αὑτοῖς συγγενέσθαι σοφισταῖς καὶ ἤδη ἄχθωνται λάθρᾳ συγγιγνόμενοι, ξενηλασίας ποιούμενοι τῶν τε λακωνιζόντων τούτων καὶ ἐάν τις ἄλλος ξένος ὢν ἐπιδημήσῃ, συγγίγνονται τοῖς σοφισταῖς λανθάνοντες τοὺς ξένους, καὶ αὐτοὶ οὐδένα ἐῶσιν τῶν νέων 342d εἰς τὰς ἄλλας πόλεις ἐξιέναι, ὥσπερ οὐδὲ Κρῆτες, ἵνα μὴ ἀπομανθάνωσιν ἃ αὐτοὶ διδάσκουσιν. εἰσὶν δὲ ἐν ταύταις ταῖς πόλεσιν οὐ μόνον ἄνδρες ἐπὶ παιδεύσει μέγα φρονοῦντες, ἀλλὰ καὶ γυναῖκες. γνοῖτε δʼ ἂν ὅτι ἐγὼ ταῦτα ἀληθῆ λέγω καὶ Λακεδαιμόνιοι πρὸς φιλοσοφίαν καὶ λόγους ἄριστα πεπαίδευνται, ὧδε· εἰ γὰρ ἐθέλει τις Λακεδαιμονίων τῷ φαυλοτάτῳ συγγενέσθαι, τὰ μὲν πολλὰ ἐν τοῖς λόγοις εὑρήσει 342e αὐτὸν φαῦλόν τινα φαινόμενον, ἔπειτα, ὅπου ἂν τύχῃ τῶν λεγομένων, ἐνέβαλεν ῥῆμα ἄξιον λόγου βραχὺ καὶ συνεστραμμένον ὥσπερ δεινὸς ἀκοντιστής, ὥστε φαίνεσθαι τὸν προσδιαλεγόμενον παιδὸς μηδὲν βελτίω.

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 342 focus

Soc.

But I should like to tell you what I take to be Simonides’ intention in this ode, if you care to test my powers, 342a as you put it,¹ in the matter of verses; though if you would rather, I will hear your account.
When Protagoras heard me say this— As you please, Socrates, he said; then Prodicus and Hippias strongly urged me, and the rest of them also.
Well then, I said, I will try to explain to you my own feeling about this poem. Now philosophy is of more ancient and abundant growth in Crete and Lacedaemon than in any other part of Greece, 342b and sophists are more numerous in those regions: but the people there deny it and make pretence of ignorance, in order to prevent the discovery that it is by wisdom that they have ascendancy over the rest of the Greeks, like those sophists of whom Protagoras was speaking²; they prefer it to be thought that they owe their superiority to fighting and valor, conceiving that the revelation of its real cause would lead everyone to practise this wisdom. So well have they kept their secret that they have deceived the followers of the Spartan cult in our cities, with the result that some get broken ears 342c by imitating them, bind their knuckles with thongs, go in for muscular exercises, and wear dashing little cloaks,³ as though it were by these means that the Spartans were the masters of Greece. And when the Spartans wish to converse unrestrainedly with their sophists, and begin to chafe at the secrecy of their meetings, they pass alien acts against the laconizing set⁴ and any other strangers within their gates, and have meetings with the sophists unknown to the foreigners; while on their part they do not permit any of their young men 342d to travel abroad to the other cities—in this rule they resemble the Cretans—lest they unlearn what they are taught at home. In those two states there are not only men but women also who pride themselves on their education; and you can tell that what I say is true and that the Spartans have the best education in philosophy and argument by this: if you choose to consort with the meanest of Spartans, 342e at first you will find him making a poor show in the conversation; but soon, at some point or other in the discussion, he gets home with a notable remark, short and compressed—a deadly shot that makes his interlocutor seem like a helpless child.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

ὃ σὺ λέγεις τοῦτο refers to περὶ ἐπῶν 338E For the idiom cf. the usual τὸ σὸν δὴ τοῦτο , e.g. Symp. 221B .

ἐξαρνοῦνται καὶ σχηματίζονται. σχηματίζεσθαιof ‘posing’ as in Soph. 268A ἀγνοεῖ ταῦτα ἃ πρὸς τοὺς ἄλλους ὡς εἰδὼς ἐσχημάτισται.

οὓς—ἔλεγε τοὺς σοφιστάς : viz. in 316D The attraction is common enough, e.g. Crito, 48C ἃς δὲ σὺ λέγεις τὰς σκέψεις περί τε ἀναλώσεως χρημάτων καὶ δόξης κτλ.and below, 359D

τὴν σοφίαν . So B and the second hand in T: the first hand omits the words (so Schanz, Kroschel and Kral).

τοὺς—λακωνίζοντας . The editors refer to Ar. Birds, 1281 ἐλακωνομάνουν ἅπαντες ἄνθρωποι τότε, ἐκόμων, ἐπείνων, ἐρρύπων, ἐσωκράτωνand Demosth. κατὰ Κόνωνος 34 μεθ’ ἡμέραν μὲν ἐσκυθπωράκασι καὶ λακωνίζειν φασὶ καὶ τπίβωνας ἔχουσι καὶ ἁπλᾶς ὑποδέδενται . The Laconisers in Athens were tolerably numerous: Plato himself ( Rep. VIII. 544C ) places ἡ Κρητική τε καὶ Λακωνικὴ πολιτεία nearest in merit to his ideal city.

οἱ μὲν ὦτά τε κατάγνυνται : thanks, of course, to boxing: cf. Gorg. 515E τῶν τὰ ὦτα κατεαγότων(i.e. τῶν λακωνιζόντων ) ἀκούεις ταῦτα, ὦ Σώκρατες , and Martial, VII. 32. 5 ‘at uvenes alios fracta colit aure magister’.

ἱμάντας περιειλίττονται . The ἱμάντες were thongs of leather bound round the knuckles for greater efficacy in boxing: Hom. Il. XXIII. 685 . The caestus, being loaded with balls of lead, was a much more brutal instrument (Virg. Aen. v. 404-5).

βραχείας ἀναβολάς : ‘short cloaks’ in imitation of the τρίβων (the national Spartan dress: see on 335D . ἀναβολή (here almost concrete) and ἀναβάλλεσθαι were said of the ἱμάτιον , to wear which rightly and like a gentleman was ἐπὶ δεξιὰ ἀναβάλλεσθαι ( Theaet. 175 E), not ὲπ’ ἀριστερά ( Ar. Birds, 1567-8 , a passage which seems decisive against reading ἐπιδέξια in this phrase). From Suidas (s.v. ἀναβάλλει—ἀναβάλλεσθαι δὲ τὸ ἱμάτιον, οὐ περιβάλλεσθαι λέγουσιν ) we may infer that ἀναβολή refers not to the throwing back of the ἱμάτιον over the shoulder (since in point of fact it was thrown back over the left shoulder) but to pulling it round the back (from left to right) before throwing the end over the left shoulder in front.

ὡσδὴ—κρατοῦντας is ‘quasi vero—his superent’ (Kroschel). For the construction cf. (with Kroschel) Rep. I. 345E οὐκ ἐννοεῖς ὅτι οὐδεὶς ἐθέλει ἄπχειν ἑκών, ἀλλὰ μισθὸν αἰτοῦσιν, ὡς οὐχὶ αὐτοῖσιν ὠφέλειαν ἐσομένην ἐκ τοῦ ἄρχειν ἀλλὰ τοῖς ἀρχομένοις ;Madvig's Gk Syntax, p. 168.

ξενηλασίας . Heindorf quotes ( inter alia ) Ar. Birds, 1012 ὥσπερ ἐν Λακεδαίμονι ξενηλατοῦνταιand Plut. Lyc. 27. 6 τοὺς ἀθροιζομένους ἐπ’ οὐδενὶ χρησίμῳ καὶ παρεισρέοντας εἰς τὴν πόλιν ἀπήλαυνεν (sc. Λυκοῦργος ), οὐχ, ὡς Θουκυδίδης (II. 39) φησί, δεδιὼς μὴ τῆς ρολιτείας μιμηταὶ γένωνται καὶ ρπὸς ἀπετήν τι χπήσιμον ἐκμάθωσιν, ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον ὄρως μὴ διδάσκαλοι κακοῦ τινος ὑπάρξωσιν . The reasons assigned by Plutarch are no doubt the true ones.

οὐδένα ἐῶσιν—ἐξιέναι . Plut. Lyc. 27. 5 οὐδ’ ἀποδημεῖν ἔδωκε ( Λυκοῦργος ) τοῖς βουλομένοις καὶ πλανᾶσθαι ξενικὰ συνάγοντας ἤθη καὶ μιμήματα βίων ἀπαιδεύτων καὶ πολιτευμάτων διαφοράν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοὺς ἀθροιζομένους etc. (see last note). In Laws, XII. 950C ff. (quoted by Sauppe) Plato lays down similar though less stringent regulations as to ἀποδημία .

ὥσπερ οὐδὲ Κρῆτες . There seems to be no other authority for this statement, but (as Sauppe remarks) the resemblance between the Cretan and Spartan institutions is well known.

ἀλλὰ καὶ γυναῖκες . Women in Sparta held a position of much greater power and influence than in the rest of Greece, partly at least in consequence of their superior education, physical and otherwise: cf. Ar. Pol. II. 9. 1269 b . 32 πολλὰ διῳκεῖτο ὑπὸ τῶν γυναικῶν ἐπὶ τῆς ἀρχῆς αὐτῶν (sc. τῶν Λακεδαιμονίων ) and see Grote, 11, 383 ff. Heindorf remarks that wise and pregnant sayings by Spartan women (such as are given in pseudo-Plutarch's Λακαινῶν ἀποφθέγματα , e.g. the famous τέκνον, ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς ) were probably already current in Plato's time.

εἰ γὰρ ἐθέλει—εὑρήσει . Cf. 324A

ἐνέβαλεν ῥῆμα—συνεστραμμένον . The aorist is like ‘behold! he has thrown in’: it expresses rapidity by representing the action as no sooner begun than over. The idiom is very frequent in Plato: Turner refers to Stallbaum on Rep. III. 406D ἐὰν δέ τις αὐτῷ μικρὰν δίαιταν προστάττῃ—ταχὺ εἶπεν ὅτι οὐ σχολὴ κάμνειν . With συνεστ ραμμένον cf. Ar. Rhet. II. 24. 1401 a . 5 συνεστ ραμμένως—εἰπεῖν ; the metaphor is apparently from an animal gathering itself for a spring (cf. Ar. Hist. Anim. IX. 48. 631 a . 27 συστρέψαντες ἑαυτοὺς φέρονται ὥσπερ τόξευμα and Plato, Rep. I. 336B συστρέψας ἑαυτὸν ὥσπερ θηρίον ἧκεν ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς).

ὥσπερ δεινὸς ἀκοντιστής . With the metaphor compare Theaet. 165D καὶ ἄλλα μυρία ἃ ἐλλοχῶν ἂν πελταστικὸς ἀνὴρ μισθοφόπος ἐν λόγοις ἐπόμενος—ἐμβαλὼν ἂν εἰς τὸ ἀκούειν—ἤλεγχεν ἂν ἐπέχων καὶ οὐκ ἀνιεὶς κτλ., ibid. 180A ἀλλ’ ἄν τινά τι ἔρῃ, ὥσπερ ἐκ φαρέτρας ῥηματίσκια αἰνιγματώδη ἀνασπῶντες ἀποτοξεύουσιν .

παιδὸς μηδὲν βελτίω . The phrase is almost proverbial: see on Crito, 49B παίδων οὐδὲν διαφέροντες.

φθέγγεσθαι , here of an impressive (almost mystic) utterance, as often in Greek, e.g. Ar. Clouds, 315 αὗται αἱ φθεγξάμεναι τοῦτο τὸ σεμνόν.

Plato Protagoras 342

ed. John Burnet

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