Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 338

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[338]

ΣΩ.

ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν καὶ δέομαι καὶ συμβουλεύω, ὦ Πρωταγόρα τε καὶ Σώκρατες, συμβῆναι ὑμᾶς ὥσπερ ὑπὸ διαιτητῶν ἡμῶν συμβιβαζόντων 338 338a εἰς τὸ μέσον, καὶ μήτε σὲ τὸ ἀκριβὲς τοῦτο εἶδος τῶν διαλόγων ζητεῖν τὸ κατὰ βραχὺ λίαν, εἰ μὴ ἡδὺ Πρωταγόρᾳ, ἀλλʼ ἐφεῖναι καὶ χαλάσαι τὰς ἡνίας τοῖς λόγοις, ἵνα μεγαλοπρεπέστεροι καὶ εὐσχημονέστεροι ἡμῖν φαίνωνται, μήτʼ αὖ Πρωταγόραν πάντα κάλων ἐκτείναντα, οὐρίᾳ ἐφέντα, φεύγειν εἰς τὸ πέλαγος τῶν λόγων ἀποκρύψαντα γῆν, ἀλλὰ μέσον τι ἀμφοτέρους τεμεῖν. ὣς οὖν ποιήσετε, καὶ πείθεσθέ μοι ῥαβδοῦχον καὶ ἐπιστάτην καὶ πρύτανιν ἑλέσθαι ὃς ὑμῖν 338b φυλάξει τὸ μέτριον μῆκος τῶν λόγων ἑκατέρου.
ταῦτα ἤρεσε τοῖς παροῦσι, καὶ πάντες ἐπῄνεσαν, καὶ ἐμέ τε ὁ Καλλίας οὐκ ἔφη ἀφήσειν καὶ ἑλέσθαι ἐδέοντο ἐπιστάτην. εἶπον οὖν ἐγὼ ὅτι αἰσχρὸν εἴη βραβευτὴν ἑλέσθαι τῶν λόγων. εἴτε γὰρ χείρων ἔσται ἡμῶν ὁ αἱρεθείς, οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἂν ἔχοι τὸν χείρω τῶν βελτιόνων ἐπιστατεῖν, εἴτε ὅμοιος, οὐδʼ οὕτως ὀρθῶς· ὁ γὰρ ὅμοιος ἡμῖν ὅμοια καὶ ποιήσει, ὥστε ἐκ 338c περιττοῦ ᾑρήσεται. ἀλλὰ δὴ βελτίονα ἡμῶν αἱρήσεσθε. τῇ μὲν ἀληθείᾳ, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, ἀδύνατον ὑμῖν ὥστε Πρωταγόρου τοῦδε σοφώτερόν τινα ἑλέσθαι· εἰ δὲ αἱρήσεσθε μὲν μηδὲν βελτίω, φήσετε δέ, αἰσχρὸν καὶ τοῦτο τῷδε γίγνεται, ὥσπερ φαύλῳ ἀνθρώπῳ ἐπιστάτην αἱρεῖσθαι, ἐπεὶ τό γʼ ἐμὸν οὐδέν μοι διαφέρει. ἀλλʼ οὑτωσὶ ἐθέλω ποιῆσαι, ἵνʼ ὃ προθυμεῖσθε συνουσία τε καὶ διάλογοι ἡμῖν γίγνωνται· εἰ μὴ βούλεται 338d Πρωταγόρας ἀποκρίνεσθαι, οὗτος μὲν ἐρωτάτω, ἐγὼ δὲ ἀποκρινοῦμαι, καὶ ἅμα πειράσομαι αὐτῷ δεῖξαι ὡς ἐγώ φημι χρῆναι τὸν ἀποκρινόμενον ἀποκρίνεσθαι· ἐπειδὰν δὲ ἐγὼ ἀποκρίνωμαι ὁπόσʼ ἂν οὗτος βούληται ἐρωτᾶν, πάλιν οὗτος ἐμοὶ λόγον ὑποσχέτω ὁμοίως. ἐὰν οὖν μὴ δοκῇ πρόθυμος εἶναι πρὸς αὐτὸ τὸ ἐρωτώμενον ἀποκρίνεσθαι, καὶ ἐγὼ καὶ ὑμεῖς κοινῇ δεησόμεθα αὐτοῦ ἅπερ ὑμεῖς ἐμοῦ, μὴ διαφθείρειν τὴν συνουσίαν· 338e καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖ τούτου ἕνεκα ἕνα ἐπιστάτην γενέσθαι, ἀλλὰ πάντες κοινῇ ἐπιστατήσετε. ἐδόκει πᾶσιν οὕτω ποιητέον εἶναι· καὶ ὁ Πρωταγόρας πάνυ μὲν οὐκ ἤθελεν, ὅμως δὲ ἠναγκάσθη ὁμολογῆσαι ἐρωτήσειν, καὶ ἐπειδὰν ἱκανῶς ἐρωτήσῃ, πάλιν δώσειν λόγον κατὰ σμικρὸν ἀποκρινόμενος.

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 338 focus

Soc.

Now let me beg and advise you, Protagoras and Socrates, to come to terms arranged, as it were, under our arbitration: you, Socrates, must, not require that precise form 338a of discussion with its extreme brevity, if it is disagreeable to Protagoras, but let the speeches have their head with a loose rein, that they may give us a more splendid and elegant impression; nor must you, Protagoras, let out full sail, as you run before the breeze, and so escape into the ocean of speech leaving the land nowhere in sight; rather, both of you must take a middle course. So you shall do as I say, and I strongly urge you to choose an umpire or supervisor or chairman 338b who will keep watch for you over the due measure of either’s speeches.
His proposal was approved by the company, and they all applauded it: Callias said he would not let me go, and they requested me to choose a supervisor. To this I replied that it would be a shame to choose an arbiter for our discussion; for if he who is chosen, said I, is to be our inferior, it would not be right to have the inferior overseeing the superior; while if he is our equal, that will be just as wrong, for our equal will only do very much as we do, and it will be superfluous to choose him. 338c You may say you will choose one who is our superior. This, in very truth, I hold to be impossible—to choose someone who is wiser than our friend Protagoras; and if you choose one who is not his superior, though you may say he is, that again would cast a slur on him, as if he were some paltry fellow requiring a supervisor; for, as far as I am concerned, the matter is indifferent. But let me tell you how I would have the thing done, so that your eagerness for a conference and a discussion may be satisfied. If Protagoras does not wish to answer, 338d let him ask questions, and I will answer: at the same time I will try to show him how the answerer, in my view, ought to answer; and when I have answered all the questions that he wishes to ask, in his turn he shall render account in like manner to me. So if he does not seem very ready to answer the particular question put to him, you and I will join in beseeching him, as you have besought me, not to upset our conference. And for this plan there is no need to have one man as supervisor; 338e you will all supervise it together.
They all resolved that it should be done in this way: Protagoras, though very unwilling, was obliged after all to agree to ask questions and then, when he had asked a sufficient number, to take his turn at making due response in short answers.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

λίαν : with ζητεῖν : κατὰ βραχύ as in Gorg. 449B ἀλλ’ ἐθέλησον κατὰ βραχὺ τὸ ἐρωτώμενον ἀποκρίνεσθαι.

ἐφεῖναι καὶ χαλάσαι τὰς ἡνίας τοῖς λόγοις . For the metaphor Kroschel compares Laws, III. 701C καθάπερ ἀχάλινον κεκτημένον τὸ στόμα, βίᾳ ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου φερόμενον κτλ.

ἡμῖν : so most editions: BT have ὑμῖν , which can hardly be right, as Hippias is at this moment addressing Socrates alone. ‘Pro ὑμῖν dici potuit σοί , sed ὑμιν recte explicari nequit’ (Kroschel).

πάντα κάλων ἐκτείναντα. παροιμία ἐπὶ τῶν πάσῃ προθυμίᾳ χρωμένων, says a scholiast (quoted by Sauppe). This nautical metaphor means to stretch out every reefing rope and so set all sail: κάλως does not refer to the sheet, which is πούς. κινεῖν, σείειν, ἐξιέναι, ἐφιέναι, ἐκλύειν are also found with κάλων in much the same sense.

οὐρίᾳ ἐφέντα : see on συγκαθεῖναι 336A For the asyndeton before these words Heindorf compares Euthyphr. 4C συνδήσας τοὺς ρόδας καὶ τὰς χεῖπας αὐτοῦ, καταβαλὼν εἰς τάφπον τινά, ρέμρει δεῦρο ἄνδρα κτλ.

πέλαγος τῶν λόγων . Sauppe aptly refers to Symp. 210D ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ πέλαγος τετραμμένος τοῦ καλοῦ . Similar metaphors abound in Plato: e.g. Euthyd. 293A σῶσαι ἡμᾶς—ἐκ τῆς τρικυμίας τοῦ λόγου, Rep. V. 472A ἴσως γὰρ οὐκ οἶσθα ὅτι μόγις μοι τὼ δύο κύματε ἐκφυγόντι νῦν τὸ μέγιστον καὶ χαλερώτατον τῆς τρικυμίας ἐπάγεις κτλ.

ἀποκρύψαντα : like Virgil's ‘protinus aerias Phaeacum abscondimus arces’ ( Aen. III. 291): cf. the use of καταδύω in Callimachus, Epigr. 2 ἥλιον ἐν λέσχῃ κατεδύσαμεν and Virgil's imitation ‘saepe ego longos Cantando puerum memini me condere soles’ ( Ecl. IX. 51).

μέσον τι—τεμεῖν. τέμνειν ὁδόνlike secare viam is a natural metaphor. Cf. Pindar, Isthm. VI. 22 μυρίαι δ’ ἔργων καλῶν τέτμηνθ’ ἑκατόμπεδοι ἐν σχερῷ κέλευθοι , Pl. Laws, VII. 803E τὸ μὲν τῶν τύπων εἴρηται καὶ καθάπερ ὁδοὶ τέτμηνται καθ’ ἃς ἰτέον κτλ. Here μέσον τι τεμεῖν = μέσην τινὰ ὁδὸν τεμεῖν .

ὣς οὖν ποιήσατε καὶ πείθεσθε. ὥς(so B: T has ὡς ) is best understood as for οὕτως —a rare usage, except after a preceding ὡς or ὥσπερ as in 326D but it is found in Thuc. III. 37. 5 (with οὖν and a form of ποιεῖν as here) ὣς οὖν χρὴ καὶ ἡμᾶς ποιοῦντας— παραινεῖν . For ποιήσατε the MSS. read ποιήσετε , which is very harsh before πείθεσθε , and is probably a mistake for ποιήσατε , due to the influence of the common construction of ὅπως with 2nd person fut. ind. It is, however, possible that this use of the future as well as the use of ὥς for οὕτως was characteristic of Hippias' style.

ῥαβδοῦχον—πρύτανιν. ῥαβδοῦχος, ἐπιστάτηςand βραβευτής are said of umpires or presidents at games: ῥαβδούχους εἶπε τοὺς κριτὰς τοῦ ἀγῶνος , says the schol. on Ar. Peace, 733 ; for ἐπιστάτης cf. Laws, XII. 949A γυμνικῶν τε καὶ ἱππικῶν ἄθλων ἐπιστάτας καὶ βραβέας. πρύτανιςis an old word with lofty associations for ruler or prince. Cron thinks Hippias made this proposal with a view to being chosen President himself; he was probably still sitting on his θρόνος , cf. 315B 317D

τὸ μέτριον μῆκος : Phaedr. 267B αὐτὸς (sc. ὁ Πρόδικος ) εὑρηκέναι ἔφη ὧν δεῖ λόγων τέχνην· δεῖν δὲ οὔτε μακρῶν οὔτε βραχέων, ἀλλὰ μετρίων .

ἀλλὰ δή like at enim introduces a possible objection: see on Crito, 54A . The fuller form of the comparative ( βελτίονα and the like) is less common in Plato than the contracted.

ὥστε . Heindorf cites ( inter alia ) Phaedr. 269D τὸ μὲν δύνασθαι, ὦ Φαῖδρε, ὥστε ἀγωνιστὴν τέλεον γενέσθαι. The insertion of ὥστε with the usual infinitive after ἀδύνατον increases the emphasis of ἀδύνατον by making it appear more than a mere auxiliary notion. Badham's conjecture ἀδύνατον ὂν ὑμῖν ἴστε deserves mention for its ingenuity. For Πρωταγόρου see above, note on 318D

τό γ’ ἐμὸν οὐδὲν διαφέρει . Gorg. 458D τό γ’ ἐμὸν οὐδὲν κωλύει. τό γ’ ἐμόνis frequent in Plato for quantum ad me attinet.

εἰ μὴ βούλεται . For the asyndeton see above on 330A

πάνυ μὲν οὐκ ἤθελεν : οὐκ ἤθελεν is virtually one word: ‘was very reluctant’. The phrase is quite different from οὐ πάνυ : see on οὐ πάνυ τι in 321B above.

Plato Protagoras 338

ed. John Burnet

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