Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 328

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[328]

ΣΩ.

εἶθʼ, ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ ζητοῖς τίς διδάσκαλος 328 328a τοῦ ἑλληνίζειν, οὐδʼ ἂν εἷς φανείη, οὐδέ γʼ ἂν οἶμαι εἰ ζητοῖς τίς ἂν ἡμῖν διδάξειεν τοὺς τῶν χειροτεχνῶν ὑεῖς αὐτὴν ταύτην τὴν τέχνην ἣν δὴ παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς μεμαθήκασιν, καθʼ ὅσον οἷός τʼ ἦν ὁ πατὴρ καὶ οἱ τοῦ πατρὸς φίλοι ὄντες ὁμότεχνοι, τούτους ἔτι τίς ἂν διδάξειεν, οὐ ῥᾴδιον οἶμαι εἶναι, ὦ Σώκρατες, τούτων διδάσκαλον φανῆναι, τῶν δὲ ἀπείρων παντάπασι ῥᾴδιον, οὕτω δὲ ἀρετῆς καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πάντων· ἀλλὰ κἂν εἰ ὀλίγον ἔστιν τις ὅστις διαφέρει 328b ἡμῶν προβιβάσαι εἰς ἀρετήν, ἀγαπητόν. ὧν δὴ ἐγὼ οἶμαι εἷς εἶναι, καὶ διαφερόντως ἂν τῶν ἄλλων ἀνθρώπων ὀνῆσαί τινα πρὸς τὸ καλὸν καὶ ἀγαθὸν γενέσθαι, καὶ ἀξίως τοῦ μισθοῦ ὃν πράττομαι καὶ ἔτι πλείονος, ὥστε καὶ αὐτῷ δοκεῖν τῷ μαθόντι. διὰ ταῦτα καὶ τὸν τρόπον τῆς πράξεως τοῦ μισθοῦ τοιοῦτον πεποίημαι· ἐπειδὰν γάρ τις παρʼ ἐμοῦ μάθῃ, ἐὰν μὲν βούληται, ἀποδέδωκεν ὃ ἐγὼ πράττομαι ἀργύριον· 328c ἐὰν δὲ μή, ἐλθὼν εἰς ἱερόν, ὀμόσας ὅσου ἂν φῇ ἄξια εἶναι τὰ μαθήματα, τοσοῦτον κατέθηκε.
τοιοῦτόν σοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐγὼ καὶ μῦθον καὶ λόγον εἴρηκα, ὡς διδακτὸν ἀρετὴ καὶ Ἀθηναῖοι οὕτως ἡγοῦνται, καὶ ὅτι οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν τῶν ἀγαθῶν πατέρων φαύλους ὑεῖς γίγνεσθαι καὶ τῶν φαύλων ἀγαθούς, ἐπεὶ καὶ οἱ Πολυκλείτου ὑεῖς, Παράλου καὶ Ξανθίππου τοῦδε ἡλικιῶται, οὐδὲν πρὸς τὸν πατέρα εἰσίν, καὶ ἄλλοι ἄλλων δημιουργῶν. τῶνδε δὲ 328d οὔπω ἄξιον τοῦτο κατηγορεῖν· ἔτι γὰρ ἐν αὐτοῖς εἰσιν ἐλπίδες· νέοι γάρ.
Πρωταγόρας μὲν τοσαῦτα καὶ τοιαῦτα ἐπιδειξάμενος ἀπεπαύσατο τοῦ λόγου. καὶ ἐγὼ ἐπὶ μὲν πολὺν χρόνον κεκηλημένος ἔτι πρὸς αὐτὸν ἔβλεπον ὡς ἐροῦντά τι, ἐπιθυμῶν ἀκούειν· ἐπεὶ δὲ δὴ ᾐσθόμην ὅτι τῷ ὄντι πεπαυμένος εἴη, μόγις πως ἐμαυτὸν ὡσπερεὶ συναγείρας εἶπον, βλέψας πρὸς τὸν Ἱπποκράτη· ὦ παῖ Ἀπολλοδώρου, ὡς χάριν σοι ἔχω ὅτι προύτρεψάς με ὧδε ἀφικέσθαι· πολλοῦ γὰρ ποιοῦμαι 328e ἀκηκοέναι ἃ ἀκήκοα Πρωταγόρου. ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐν μὲν τῷ ἔμπροσθεν χρόνῳ ἡγούμην οὐκ εἶναι ἀνθρωπίνην ἐπιμέλειαν ᾗ ἀγαθοὶ οἱ ἀγαθοὶ γίγνονται· νῦν δὲ πέπεισμαι. πλὴν σμικρόν τί μοι ἐμποδών, ὃ δῆλον ὅτι Πρωταγόρας ῥᾳδίως ἐπεκδιδάξει, ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὰ πολλὰ ταῦτα ἐξεδίδαξεν.

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 328 focus

328a

Soc.

you would find none anywhere; and I suppose you might ask, who can teach the sons of our artisans the very crafts which of course they have learnt from their fathers, as far as the father was competent in each case, and his friends who followed the same trade,—I say if you asked who is to give these further instruction, I imagine it would be hard, Socrates, to find them a teacher, but easy enough in the case of those starting with no skill at all. And so it must be with virtue and everything else; if there is somebody who excels us ever so little 328b in showing the way to virtue, we must be thankful. Such an one I take myself to be, excelling all other men in the gift of assisting people to become good and true, and giving full value for the fee that I charge—nay, so much more than full, that the learner himself admits it. For this reason I have arranged my charges on a particular plan: when anyone has had lessons from me, if he likes he pays the sum that I ask; if not, 328c he goes to a temple, states on oath the value he sets on what he has learnt, and disburses that amount. So now, Socrates, I have shown you by both fable and argument that virtue is teachable and is so deemed by the Athenians, and that it is no wonder that bad sons are born of good fathers and good of bad, since even the sons of Polycleitus, companions of Paralus and Xanthippus here, are not to be compared with their father, and the same is the case in other craftsmen’s families. As for these two, it is not fair to make this complaint of them yet; 328d there is still hope in their case, for they are young.
After this great and fine performance Protagoras ceased from speaking. As for me, for a good while I was still under his spell and kept on looking at him as though he were going to say more, such was my eagerness to hear: but when I perceived that he had really come to a stop, I pulled myself together, as it were, with an effort, and looking at Hippocrates I said: Son of Apollodorus, I am very grateful to you for inducing me to come hither; 328e for it is a great treat to have heard what I have heard from Protagoras. I used formerly to think that there was no human treatment by which the good were made good, but now I am convinced that there is. Only I find one slight difficulty, which Protagoras will of course easily explain away, since he has explained so many puzzles already.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

τούτους ἔτι τίς ἂν διδάξειεν repeats τίς ἂν—διδάξειεν τοὺς τῶν χειροτεχνῶν υἱεῖς : and οὐ ῥᾴδιον οἶμαι εἶναι—τούτων διδάσκαλον φανῆναι is a variety on οὐδ’ ἂν εἷς φανείη , which the οὐδέ γ’ ἄν of l. 42 might lead us to expect would be repeated— but the sentence is a slight anacoluthon. This is better than to take ἄν of οὐδέ γ’ ἄν in l. 42 with εἶναι of l. 47 .

οὕτω δὲ ἀρετῆς . On οὕτω δέ see above, note on 318C

κἂν εἰ : this idiom is somewhat rare in Plato, e.g. Meno, 72C κἂν εἰ πολλαὶ καὶ παντοδαπαί εἰσιν, ἕν γέ τι εἶδος ἄπασαι ἔχουσιν : it is extremely common in Aristotle. The ἄν shows that the idiom must have arisen from cases where the apodosis contained a verb with which ἄν could go, e.g. κἂν εἰ ἀποθνῄσκοι, εὖ ἔχοι . Such cases as Symp. 185A κἂν εἴ τις—ἐξαπατηθείη, καλὴ ἡ ἀπάτη, where the verb after εἰ is in the optative, preserve traces of the origin of the construction.

ὀνῆσαί τινα πρός. ὀνῆσαιis Dobree's correction for νοῆσαι : cf. Rep. X. 601D εἴπερ οἶός τ’ ἦν πρὸς ἀρετὴν ὀνῆσαι ἀνθρώπους.

τὸν τρόπον τῆς πράξεως τοῦ μισθοῦ . Ar. Eth. Nic. IX. 2 . 1164 a . 24 ὅπερ φασὶ καὶ Πρωταγόραν ποιεῖν· ὅτε γὰρ διδάξειεν ἁδήροτε, τιμῆσαι τὸν μαθόντα ἐκέλευεν ὅσου δοκεῖ ἄξια ἐπίστασθαι καὶ ἐλάμβανε τοσοῦτον . This is more than Plato says: see next note.

ἀποδέδωκεν : but κατέθηκεν (gnomic aorist) two lines lower down. It is not necessary to reject ἀποδέδωκεν (with Sauppe and Schanz) or to read ἀπέδωκεν (with Kroschel and Kral). ἀποδέδωκεν is hardly to be explained as a gnomic perfect (Goodwin), certain examples of which are rare, if not unknown, but is to be taken in its natural sense: ‘if he prefers, he has already paid . . . if not etc.’: this is also Heindorf's view. Unless the pupil had paid in advance, Protagoras left the fee to his own conscience and (according to his own account, ὥστε καὶ αὐτῷ δοκεῖν τῷ μαθόντι ) generally fared better, even though (if Diog. Laert. IX. 52 may be trusted) his fee was 100 minae. If Protagoras made no bad debts, he escapes the censure of Plato in Gorg. 519C , where it is said that, if teachers of δικαιοσύνη do not receive their fees, it only shows that they have failed to teach their subject and deserve no fees.

ἐλθὼν εἰς ἱερόν . ‘Tactis sacris aramve tenentes veteres iurare satis est notum’ Heindorf, quoting Aeschin. in Timarch. § 114 λαβὼν εἰς τὴν ἑαυτοῦ χεῖρα τὰ ἱερὰ καὶ ὀμόσας μὴ λαβεῖν δῶρα—εἰληφὼς ἠλέγχθη .

τῶνδε . Protagoras is more encouraging than Socrates in 319E

ἐπιδειξάμενος. ἐπιδείκνυσθαιand ἐπίδειξις are regularly used of a Sophistic display: e.g. Gorg. 447A πολλὰ γὰρ καὶ καλὰ Γοργίας ἡμῖν ὀλίγον πρότερον ἐπεδείξατο, Crat. 384B τὴν πεντηκοντάδραχμον ἐπίδειξιν. ἐπιδείκνυμιis also sometimes used in the same way, e.g. Euthyd. 274D and below, 347B in 320C above ἀλλ’ ἐπίδειξον is intended to suggest this meaning, which comes out more clearly in ἐπιδείξω two lines below.

ἐπὶ μὲν πολὺν χρόνον goes with ἔβλεπον and ἔτι with κεκηλημένος .

ὦ παῖ Ἀπολλοδώρου : with mock solemnity: so 335D ὦ παῖ Ἱππονίκου , Rep. II. 368A ὦ παῖδες ἐκείνου τἀνδρός.

ὦδε in the sense of δεῦρο is noted as a Platonic idiom by the lexicographers. The usage is found in tragedy, but no other example is quoted from Plato.

ἀνθρωπίνην ἐπιμέλειαν : cf. Meno, 99E ἀρετὴ ἂν εἴη οὔτε φύσει οὔτε διδακτόν, ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ παραγιγνομένη ἄνευ νοῦ .

ἐπεκδιδάξει—ἐξεδίδαξεν : see on 311A

Plato Protagoras 328

ed. John Burnet

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