Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 311

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[311]

ΣΩ.

ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, πάντες τὸν ἄνδρα ἐπαινοῦσιν καί φασιν σοφώτατον εἶναι λέγειν· ἀλλὰ τί οὐ βαδίζομεν παρʼ αὐτόν, ἵνα 311 311a ἔνδον καταλάβωμεν; καταλύει δʼ, ὡς ἐγὼ ἤκουσα, παρὰ Καλλίᾳ τῷ Ἱππονίκου· ἀλλʼ ἴωμεν. καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον· μήπω, ἀγαθέ, ἐκεῖσε ἴωμεν—πρῲ γάρ ἐστιν—ἀλλὰ δεῦρο ἐξαναστῶμεν εἰς τὴν αὐλήν, καὶ περιιόντες αὐτοῦ διατρίψωμεν ἕως ἂν φῶς γένηται· εἶτα ἴωμεν. καὶ γὰρ τὰ πολλὰ Πρωταγόρας ἔνδον διατρίβει, ὥστε, θάρρει, καταληψόμεθα αὐτόν, ὡς τὸ εἰκός, ἔνδον.
μετὰ ταῦτα ἀναστάντες εἰς τὴν αὐλὴν περιῇμεν· καὶ ἐγὼ 311b ἀποπειρώμενος τοῦ Ἱπποκράτους τῆς ῥώμης διεσκόπουν αὐτὸν καὶ ἠρώτων, εἰπέ μοι, ἔφην ἐγώ, ὦ Ἱππόκρατες, παρὰ Πρωταγόραν νῦν ἐπιχειρεῖς ἰέναι, ἀργύριον τελῶν ἐκείνῳ μισθὸν ὑπὲρ σεαυτοῦ, ὡς παρὰ τίνα ἀφιξόμενος καὶ τίς γενησόμενος; ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ ἐπενόεις παρὰ τὸν σαυτοῦ ὁμώνυμον ἐλθὼν Ἱπποκράτη τὸν Κῷον, τὸν τῶν Ἀσκληπιαδῶν, ἀργύριον τελεῖν ὑπὲρ σαυτοῦ μισθὸν ἐκείνῳ, εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο· εἰπέ μοι, μέλλεις τελεῖν, ὦ Ἱππόκρατες, Ἱπποκράτει 311c μισθὸν ὡς τίνι ὄντι; τί ἂν ἀπεκρίνω;— εἶπον ἄν, ἔφη, ὅτι ὡς ἰατρῷ.— ὡς τίς γενησόμενος;— ὡς ἰατρός, ἔφη.—εἰ δὲ παρὰ Πολύκλειτον τὸν Ἀργεῖον ἢ Φειδίαν τὸν Ἀθηναῖον ἐπενόεις ἀφικόμενος μισθὸν ὑπὲρ σαυτοῦ τελεῖν ἐκείνοις, εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο· τελεῖν τοῦτο τὸ ἀργύριον ὡς τίνι ὄντι ἐν νῷ ἔχεις Πολυκλείτῳ τε καὶ Φειδίᾳ; τί ἂν ἀπεκρίνω;— εἶπον ἂν ὡς ἀγαλματοποιοῖς.— ὡς τίς δὲ γενησόμενος αὐτός;— δῆλον ὅτι ἀγαλματοποιός.—εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· 311d παρὰ δὲ δὴ Πρωταγόραν νῦν ἀφικόμενοι ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ ἀργύριον ἐκείνῳ μισθὸν ἕτοιμοι ἐσόμεθα τελεῖν ὑπὲρ σοῦ, ἂν μὲν ἐξικνῆται τὰ ἡμέτερα χρήματα καὶ τούτοις πείθωμεν αὐτόν, εἰ δὲ μή, καὶ τὰ τῶν φίλων προσαναλίσκοντες. εἰ οὖν τις ἡμᾶς περὶ ταῦτα οὕτω σφόδρα σπουδάζοντας ἔροιτο· εἰπέ μοι, ὦ Σώκρατές τε καὶ Ἱππόκρατες, ὡς τίνι ὄντι τῷ Πρωταγόρᾳ ἐν νῷ ἔχετε χρήματα τελεῖν; τί ἂν αὐτῷ 311e ἀποκριναίμεθα; τί ὄνομα ἄλλο γε λεγόμενον περὶ Πρωταγόρου ἀκούομεν; ὥσπερ περὶ Φειδίου ἀγαλματοποιὸν καὶ περὶ Ὁμήρου ποιητήν, τί τοιοῦτον περὶ Πρωταγόρου ἀκούομεν;— σοφιστὴν δή τοι ὀνομάζουσί γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸν ἄνδρα εἶναι, ἔφη.—ὡς σοφιστῇ ἄρα ἐρχόμεθα τελοῦντες τὰ χρήματα;— μάλιστα.—

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 311 focus

Soc.

You know, Socrates, how everyone praises the man and tells of his mastery of speech: let us step over to him at once, 311a to make sure of finding him in; he is staying, so I was told, with Callias, son of Hipponicus. Now, let us be going. To this I replied: We had better not go there yet, my good friend, it is so very early: let us rise and turn into the court here, and spend the time strolling there till daylight comes; after that we can go. Protagoras, you see, spends most of his time indoors, so have no fear, we shall find him in all right, most likely.
So then we got up and strolled in the court; 311b and I, to test Hippocrates’ grit, began examining him with a few questions. Tell me, Hippocrates, I said, in your present design of going to Protagoras and paying him money as a fee for his services to yourself, to whom do you consider you are resorting, and what is it that you are to become? Suppose, for example, you had taken it into your head to call on your namesake Hippocrates of Cos, the Asclepiad, and pay him money as your personal fee, and suppose someone asked you—Tell me, Hippocrates, in purposing to pay 311c a fee to Hippocrates, what do you consider him to be? How would you answer that?
A doctor, I would say.
And what would you intend to become?
A doctor, he replied.
And suppose you had a mind to approach Polycleitus the Argive or Pheidias the Athenian and pay them a personal fee, and somebody asked you—What is it that you consider Polycleitus or Pheidias to be, that you are minded to pay them this money? What would your answer be to that?
Sculptors, I would reply.
And what would you intend to become?
Obviously, a sculptor.
Very well then, I said; you and I will go now to Protagoras, 311d prepared to pay him money as your fee, from our own means if they are adequate for the purpose of prevailing on him, but if not, then drawing on our friends’ resources to make up the sum. Now if anyone, observing our extreme earnestness in the matter, should ask us,—Pray, Socrates and Hippocrates, what is it that you take Protagoras to be, when you purpose to pay him money? What should we reply to him? What is the other name that we commonly hear attached to Protagoras? They call Pheidias a sculptor and Homer a poet: 311e what title do they give Protagoras?
A sophist, to be sure, Socrates, is what they call him.
Then we go to him and pay him the money as a sophist?
Certainly.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

Καλλίᾳ τῷ Ἱππονίκου . Callias, son of Hipponicus, belonged to one of the richest families in Athens (below, 337D αὐτῆς τῆς πόλεως—τὸν μέγιστον καὶ ὀλβιώτατον οἶκον τόνδε ). His devotion to the ‘Sophists’ in general is remarked upon in Apol. 20A ἀνδρὶ ὃς τετέλεκε χρήματα σοφισταῖς πλείω ἢ ξύμπαντες οἱ ἄλλοι, Καλλίᾳ τῷ Ἱππονίκου(cf. Crat. 391B ): but he seems to have been particularly attached to the doctrines of Protagoras: see Theaet. 164E οὐ γὰρ ἐγώ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον Καλλίας ὁ Ἱππονίκου τῶν ἐκείνου(i.e. Πρωταγόρου λόγων ) ἐπίτροπος . One of his two sons ( Apol. 20A ), Protarchus, appears as an interlocutor in the Philebus. In 393-392 Callias was associated with Iphicrates in the command of the Athenian forces at Corinth, and as late as 371 we find him acting as ambassador to Sparta (Xen. Hell. VI. 4). It appears that he spent all his money and died in actual want (Athenaeus, XII. 52).

μήπω, ὠγαθέ . The MSS. have μήπω ἀγαθέ : probably the archetype had μήπωγαθέ , by a natural mistake. Cobet rejects ἐκεῖσε ἴωμεν , reading μήπω γε , on the ground that with μήπω γε the Greek idiom does not repeat the verb: but there is no proof that the verb could not be expressed with μήπω (without γε ).

δεῦρο ἐξαναστῶμεν εἰς τὴν αὐλήν . Herwerden needlessly suggests that ἐξαναστάντες should be read, or εἰς τὴν αὐλήν rejected: εἰς τὴν αὐλήν goes with ἐξαναστῶμεν : cf. ἐμὲ δὲ δεῖ ποι ἐξαναστῆναι in Theages, 129B. δεῦρο we should translate by ‘here’: ‘let us rise and go out into the court here’. Classic Greek does not admit of τῇδε in such a case: see Cobet's Novae Lectiones, p. 91.

ἀποπειρώμενος—διεσκόπουν. ῥώμηof strength of will and resolution (cf. ἀνδρεία above 310D as in Polit. 259C πρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην. γνώμης , the suggestion of Hoenebeek, would be much less forcible and exact.

ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ κτλ. ἄνgoes with ἀπεκρίνω in l. II. The application of the similes follows in D, and each illustration contains two subordinate protases, viz. (in B) (1) εἰ ἐπενόεις— ἐκείνῳ , (2) εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο , and (in C) (1) εἰ δὲ—ἐκείνοις , (2) εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο . With this multiplication of protases Heindorf compares Meno, 74B μανθάνεις γάρ που ὅτι οὑτωσὶ ἔχει περὶ παντός· εἴ τίς σε ἀνέποιτο τοῦτο ὃ νῦν δὴ ἐγὼ ἔλεγον, τί ἐστι σχῆμα, ὦ Μένων; εἰ αὐτῷ εἶρες ὅτι στπογγυλότης, εἴ σοι εἶρεν ἅρεπ ἐγώ, ρότεπον σχῆμα ἡ στπογγυλότης ἐστὶν ἢ σχῆμά τι; εἶρες δή ρου ἂν ὅτι σχῆμά τι. The reasoning from analogy is quite in Socrates' style: see for example Gorg. 448B ff.

‘Ιπποκράτη—τὸν τῶν’ Ασκληπιαδῶν . It is unnecessary (with Naber) to bracket Ἱπποκράτη . Hippocrates, the founder of medical science, born about 460 B.C. in Cos, was at the height of his renown about the year 400. He is referred to also in Phaedrus, 270C ( εἰ μὲν οὖν Ἱπποκράτει γε τῷ τῶν Ἀσκληπιαδῶν δεῖ τι πείθεσθαι ) as holding the view that the human body could not be Compare Ar. Peace, 383 εἰπέ μοι τί πάσχετ’ ὦνδρες; Pl. Euthyd. 283B εἰπέ μοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατές τε καὶ ὑμεῖς οἱ ἄλλοι . The exhortation or command is in general primarily addressed to one man: contrast, however, below, 330B and Lach. 186E σὺ δ’, ὦ Λάχης καὶ Νικία, εἴπετον ἡμῖν ἑκάτερος.

ἄλλο γε , i.e. other than the name ‘Protagoras’. It is more in accordance with Plato's usage to make the first question end with the first ἀκούομεν , and regard the ὥσπερ clause as introducing the second question τί τοιοῦτον περὶ Πρωταγόρου ἀκούομεν ; This second question is rejected by Cobet as spurious, but the punctuation which we have adopted seems to remove the difficulty. The ὥσπερ clause defines in advance the meaning of τοιοῦτον : for this and for the asyndeton compare Sophist. 258B-C πότερον οὖν—δεῖ θαρροῦντα ἤδη λέγειν ὅτι τὸ μὴ ὂν βεβαίως ἐστὶ τὴν αὑτοῦ φύσιν ἔχον; ὥσρεπ τὸ μέγα ἦν μέγα καὶ τὸ καλὸν ἦν καλὸν καὶ τὸ μὴ μέγα μὴ μέγα καὶ τὸ μὴ καλὸν μὴ καλόν, οὕτω δὲ καὶ τὸ μὴ ὂν κατὰ ταὐτὸν ἦν τε καὶ ἔστι μὴ ὄν, ἐνάπιθμον τῶν πολλῶν ὄντων εἶδος ἕν ; Crat. 394A B; Theaet. 172D with Heindorf's note. See also 330A ὥσπερ τὰ τοῦ προσώπου , where the same punctuation should be adopted. In l. 31 the MSS. read ἠκούομεν by mistake for ἀκούομεν .

σοφιστήν—εἶναι . On σοφιστής see below, note on 312C γε implies that Protagoras may be a sophist only in name. εἶναι is frequently used with verbs of naming: cf. Lach. 192A ὃ ἐν πᾶσιν ὀνομάζεις ταχυτῆτα εἶναι. Cobet's suggestion to read εἶεν, ἔφην, ὡς for εἶναι, ἔφη. ὡς is ingenious but needless.

αὐτὸς δὲ δὴ—παρὰ τὸν Πρωταγόραν , sc. τί ἂν ἀποκρίναιο ;

Plato Protagoras 311

ed. John Burnet

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