Homer Iliad 23.586

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The prudent chief with calm attention heard;
Then mildly thus: ‘Excuse, if youth have err'd;
‘Superior as thou art, forgive th' offence,
‘Nor I thy equal, or in years, or sense.
670
‘Thou know'st the errors of unripen'd age,
‘Weak are its counsels, headlong is its rage.
‘The prize I quit, if thou thy wrath resign;
‘The mare, or aught thou ask'st, be freely thine,
‘Ere I become (from thy dear friendship torn)
675
‘Hateful to thee, and to the gods forsworn.’

Iliad. Homer. London. 1863.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Current edition Experimental

English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) (English) (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 23.586 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 23.586 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 23.596 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 23.586 focus
And Antilokhos answered, “Forgive me; I am much younger, King Menelaos, than you are; you stand higher than I do and are the better man of the two; you know how easily young men are betrayed into indiscretion; [590] their minds [ noos] are more hasty, but their cunning intelligence [ mētis] is slight; make due allowances therefore, and bear with me; I will of my own accord give up the mare that I have won, and if you claim any further chattel from my own possessions, I would rather yield it to you, at once, [595] than fall from your good graces henceforth, and do wrong in the eyes of superhuman forces [ daimones].”
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 23.586 focus
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 23.586 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 23.586 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 23.586 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 23 focus

Notes on the current edition

Iliad

1. “Control” for “affect” or “influence.”
2. Ver. 338.

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

analysis of the motivation of Nestor’s speech of advice to Antilochus – evoking Nestor’s own earlier race (the turning post, on which Nestor spends so much time, is ignored in the description of the race)

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analysis of the role of noos in Antilochus’ race (contra Menelaus’ words regarding Antilochus’ noos)

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comparison of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ race with Nestor’s against the Epeian twins, in terms of incitement and (not) crashing

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comparison of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ race with Nestor’s against the Epeian twins, in terms of incitement and (not) crashing

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comparison of Antilochus’ heedless incitement to Nestor’s state of mind when he crashed, and Patroclus’ when the gods call him to death (I.16.693)

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comparison of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ race with Nestor’s against the Epeian twins, in terms of incitement and (not) crashing

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analysis of Menelaus’ characterization as a follower in his relationship with Agamemnon, here in particular the use of the verb methiēmi of him in these verses and in I.10.121

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analysis of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ dispute over the second prize in the chariot race

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analysis of Eumelos’ virtual race (as surmised by Idomeneus) and comparison with Nestor’s race in his youth

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Eumelos’ virtual race as a description of Nestor’s youthful race, in the context of analyzing Nestor and Diomedes as charioteers in I.08 and Nestor’s dropping the reins

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analysis of Eumelos’ virtual race (as surmised by Idomeneus) and comparison with Nestor’s race in his youth

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analysis of Eumelos’ virtual race (as surmised by Idomeneus) and comparison with Nestor’s race in his youth

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analysis of the symbolism of the whip and the yoke in Diomedes’ race

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analysis of the symbolism of the whip and the yoke in Diomedes’ race

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analysis of Antilochus’ mētis and comparison of this verse with I.23.322

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analysis of the attitude towards, and the reality of, the ability of female horses in chariot races

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analysis of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ dispute over the second prize in the chariot race

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analysis of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ dispute over the second prize in the chariot race

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analysis of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ dispute over the second prize in the chariot race

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analysis of the role of mētis and noos in Antilochus’ race, and specifically the significance of the verse 590 on noos and mētis

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analysis of the role of mētis and noos in Antilochus’ race, and specifically Antilochus’ uncharacteristically unbalanced mind during the race, according to Menelaus

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analysis of Antilochus’ and Menelaus’ dispute over the second prize in the chariot race

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analysis of the role of mētis and noos in Antilochus’ race, argument that Antilochus’ victory is a victory of noos, and the name of Noēmōn in these verses corroborating this interpretation

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analysis of Nestor’s role in the chariot race and the relevance of Nestor’s youthful crash to Patroclus, with reference to Nestor’s story to him in I.11

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traces of solar myth in Nestor’s traditions, here the funeral games of Amarunkeus

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analysis of Nestor’s chariot race against the Aktorione in terms of the Indo-European twin myth, interpreting the twin’s and Nestor’s functions accordingly

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analysis of the two levels of significance in Achilles’ awarding Nestor the last price in the chariot race

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analysis of the secrecy/irony in Nestor’s role in the Iliad as exemplified (here) by his saying oude se lēthō in his speech to Achilles at receiving the last prize in the chariot race

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analysis of Nestor’s story as (designated as) ainos, a coded message

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comment on traditions of Oedipus according to which he remained in Thebes until his death, in context of discussing the expanded reference to him and Epikaste in O.11

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Gregory Nagy

The funeral that Achilles arranges here for Patroklos in the Iliad is in some ways a preview of the funeral that the Achaeans will arrange for Achilles himself beyond the time-frame of the Iliad. A high point of the funeral in Iliad 23 is a spectacular chariot race arranged by Achilles to honor his dead comrade Patroklos. But an earlier high point is a comparably spectacular cremation of his friend’s body. But this cremation of Patroklos, as a ritual, is far from perfect: it is in fact polluted, and the pollution will make Achilles look bad, at least for the moment. The polluted thoughts of the hero, as evidenced by his dragging the corpse of Hector behind his speeding chariot, will drive him to extremes that will challenge the cosmic order. But the Master Narrator of the Iliad will remedy the pollution, and the remedy will take the form of actually narrating the grim story. In the process of this narration, a great lesson will be learned about life, death, and a hoped-for recovery of life.

draft js image errorAchilles dragging the body of Hector. Copperplate etching (1795) by Tommaso Piroli, after a drawing (1793) by John Flaxman. Image via Wikimedia Commons.

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one of the two attestations of histor in the Iliad or the Odyssey

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Here we see an example of pherein and agein in a construction that corresponds to what we find in Cato's De agri cultura 141.1-2, where we read circum-ferō and circus-agō in a ritual context.

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See anchor comment at I.23.113 on Meriones as therapōn of Idomeneus.

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the funeral of a hero as the primary occasion for athletic contests in Homeric narrative, in the context of the analysis of the evidence of hero cult in the Iliad and the Odyssey

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analysis of the applications of phrase “best of the Achaeans,” here restrictions to the way others besides Diomedes, Agamemnon, Ajax, and Achilles may be best, in particular, various heroes being the best at given events at the Funeral Games (Epeios at boxing in this verse)

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analysis of connection between the metaphor of the master carpenter and the art of the poet and of kúklos as a metaphor for the sum total of Homeric poetry. See Il. XXIII.340, Il. V.722

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analysis of ar- (ars, arariskein) and tek(s)- (tekhnē, texō) as applied to poetry and carpentry

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analysis of the theme of biē, specifically in its elemental dimension, here the power of winds as designated by it or its synonym is (as in this verse)

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analysis of Eustathius’ notion (1.9) of the ancient rationale of distinct color schemes

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Leonard Muellner

in a list of examples of eukhesthai + dative (formulas which report prayers)

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analysis of the enjambed attestations of #[eukh– –] with dative

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in a list of examples of eukhesthai einai + comparative/superlative (secular contexts)

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Richard Martin

The dispute between Ajax and Idomeneus at the Funeral Games (23.457-98) illustrates several features of the flyting genre in sequence. Idomeneus' muthos is an attempt to gain authority by the suggestion that he alone has the ability to discern the race results before it is over (23.457-72), and also gives him an opportunity to single out Diomedes for praise (23.471-73). Ajax recognizes the move for what it is and criticizes the older hero's style: "Why are you blustering beforehand?" (labreueai, 23.474). Ajax then denigrates Idomeneus not only for the content of his speech but for his proficiency at this abased speech form itself: "You are always blustering with muthoi. You mustn't be a blustering speaker. There are better ones present" (23.479-80). Idomeneus springs on Ajax the same rhetorical trap seen elsewhere (Agamemnon at 4.399-400), implicitly conceding the honor of best flyting speaker to Ajax while suggesting that prowess in flyting is accompanied by incompetence at all else (23.483-84). Achilles interrupts the escalating flyting match with a command to focus attention on nikē rather than neikos (23.496), deflecting blame onto those who would use the genre: "Get angry at another, whoever would do such things" (23.494) (Martin 1993:75-76).

For the broader analysis of the flyting genre, see the comment on Iliad 4.336-421.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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It is not surprising that Achilles' style in commanding should appear more formal as the poem ends. His role as manager of his companion's funeral demands this, but Achilles' speech did not have to be dramatized; that it is formalized reinforces our earliest idea of his style, gained from seeing him follow convention in proposing the traditional causes for the plague (1.65-67) and calling for an official interpretation. The authoritative quality of Achilles' speech strikes us as a refrain in Book 23. Five times the poet introduces Achilles' speech with the line "He stood up and spoke a muthos among the Argives" (23.657, 706, 752, 801, 830). The performances thus prefaced are official proclamations of contest and prize, often no more than a line or two. Through these speeches, which seem generic enough to be spoken by anyone, a voice finally accords with Achilles' status. No one else says such things in the Iliad; only Achilles rates high enough to be able to evaluate and reward the competitive style of his peers (Martin 1993:140-41).

For the broader analysis of Achilles' distinctive speech style, see the comment on Iliad 9.646-647.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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