Homer Iliad 2.419

ed. George Chapman

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Iliad. Homer. ed. George Chapman. London. 1887.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Current edition Experimental

English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) (English) (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 2.419 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 2.419 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 2.400 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 2.419 focus
Thus he prayed, but the son of Kronos would not fulfill his prayer. [420] He accepted the sacrifice, yet none the less increased their toil [ ponos] continually. When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley-meal upon the victim, they drew back its head, killed it, and then flayed it. They cut out the thigh-bones, wrapped them round in two layers of fat, and set pieces of raw meat on the top of them. [425] These they burned upon the split logs of firewood, but they spitted the innards, and held them in the flames to cook. When the thigh-pieces were burned, and they had tasted the innards, they cut the rest up small, put the pieces upon spits, roasted them till they were done, and drew them off; [430] then, when they had finished their work [ ponos] and the feast was ready, they ate it, and every man had his full share, so that all were satisfied. As soon as they had had enough to eat and drink, Nestor, charioteer of Gerenia, began to speak. “King Agamemnon,” said he, [435] “let us not stay talking here, nor be slack in the work that the gods have put into our hands. Let the heralds summon the bronze-armored people to gather at their several ships; we will then go about among the army of warriors, [440] that we may begin fighting at once.”
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 2.419 focus
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 2.419 focus
Thus pray'd the chief: his unavailing prayer
Great Jove refus'd, and toss'd in empty air:
The god, averse, while yet the fumes arose,
500
Prepar'd new toils, and doubled woes on woes.
Their prayers perform'd, the chiefs the rites pursue,
The barley sprinkled, and the victim slew.
The limbs they sever from th' enclosing hide,
The thighs, selected to the gods, divide.
505
On these, in double cauls involved with art,
The choicest morsels lie from every part.
From the cleft wood the crackling flames aspire,
While the fat victim feeds the sacred fire.
The thighs thus sacrific'd and entrails dress'd,
510
Th' assistants part, transfix, and roast the rest;
Then spread the tables, the repast prepare,
Each takes his seat, and each receives his share.
Soon as the rage of hunger was suppress'd,
The generous Nestor thus the prince address'd:
515
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 2.419 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 2.419 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 2 focus

Notes on the current edition

Iliad

1. At-a-martial-cry good-Menelaus—good at a shout; Βοὴν ἀγαθὸς is the epithet of Menelaus.
2. In interest of—on account of, &c.
3. This speech no syllable lost—i. e. Agamemnon attended to every syllable of the speech.
4. Gray-eyed Maid—Minerva.

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

contrast between Nestor who affirms the positive sign from Zeus regarding the Achaeans return and Agamemnon who denies it

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comment on the formulaic language of Zeus’ promising and nodding in assent in response to prayer (of returning from Troy)

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in the context of interpreting Menelaos as “he who incites the warfolk”; example of laos as referring to one’s own even with ōlese

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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in the context of discussing the interpretation of Nestor’s name and the meaning of forms from the root *nes- as “safe return home” or without “home” where it needed to be specified

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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in the context of discussing the contrast between Odysseus and Nestor in terms of their referring to signs from gods (Odysseus recalls one interpreted by Calchas, Nestor one he saw for himself)

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commentary on Odysseus’ restraining and Nestor’s inciting the Achaeans, corresponding to the contrast between them on their nostos (as the mortal and immortal twins, respectively)

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comment on the formulaic language of Zeus’ promising and nodding in assent in response to prayer (of returning from Troy) and the variation on it in this passage

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in the context of discussing the contrast between Odysseus and Nestor in terms of their referring to signs from gods (Odysseus recalls one interpreted by Calchas, Nestor one he saw for himself)

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in the context of discussing the contrast between Odysseus and Nestor in terms of their referring to signs from gods (Odysseus recalls one interpreted by Calchas, Nestor one he saw for himself)

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example of laos as referring to one’s own in contexts where there is a contrast between “leader(s)” and those who “follow”

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citation of formulaic use of haloûsá te perthoménē te as example where halṓō means “to be seized” in Homer

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Gregory Nagy

The narrative of Rhapsody 2 now follows up on the dire consequences of the quarrel between Achilles and Agamemnon as narrated in Rhapsody 1. Achilles has already withdrawn from the war because of his anger. So, now that this greatest hero of the Achaeans is out of the picture, what will happen next? How will the absence of Achilles affect the story of the Trojan War? Many new doubts and fears set in, and the resolve of the Achaeans is harshly tested. There is negative talk, and there are omens. Thus the story of the Trojan War, as told and retold countless times in the distant past, must now be retold yet again, and Rhapsody 2 will set the terms for the retelling still to come. For setting the terms, Rhapsody 2 will need a new Catalogue of Ships, now happening in the tenth year of the war, as a replacement for any old Catalogue that would have logically happened already in the first year. This new Catalogue is of course not really new: rather, it is the oldest possible Catalogue that is now being renewed for the newest possible retelling of the Trojan War, reconsidered in the glaring light of the grim consequences facing the Achaeans now that Achilles has withdrawn from the war. With these consequences in view, the Catalogue will reassess all the Achaean heroes involved in the Trojan War. Of special interest will be the role of Protesilaos, who had been the first Achaean to die in the war, as a model for Achilles. As the Master Narrator notes most ruefully, Protesilaos is now terribly missed by his fellow warriors. So too will Achilles be missed.

draft js image errorOn the reverse side of the coin: Inscription: ΘΗΒΑΙΩΝ. Pictured: the Greek hero Protesilaos, the first Achaean to step on Trojan soil and, according to the myth, the first to die in the Trojan War. The myth is retold in Iliad 2.695–709.

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The skēptron ‘scepter’ that is held by Agamemnon is described as golden, and gold is the symbol for the artificial continuum of immortality as expressed by the epithet aphthito- in the sense of ‘imperishable, unwilting’. But this scepter was originally wooden and then covered over in gold; and wood is a symbol for the natural discontinuity of mortal life as expressed by the verb phthinesthai in the sense of ‘wilt’. This aspect of the skēptron ‘scepter’ as a symbol for the natural discontinuity of mortal life is highlighted by the Oath of Achilles at I.01.233–246.

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The False Dream, personified, announces himself to the sleeping Agamemnon, describing himself as the Dios angelos ‘messenger of Zeus’.

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Countering the claim of Achilles to be the ‘best of the Achaeans’, Agamemnon here lays claim to the same title, and the verb for expressing such a claim is eukhesthai ‘claim’.

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This expression needs to be added to the cumulative evidence showing that a person who holds a skēptron ‘scepter’ speaks with the authority of a king—an authority emanating from Zeus.

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In this verse, I.02.094, the epithet Dios angelos ‘messenger of Zeus’ applies to the noun ossa ‘oracular voice’ as found in the previous verse, I.02.093.

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In the Homeric Iliad, the hero Pelops figures as an archetype of political power. The sequence of kings in the Peloponnesus is limited to the dynastic lineage starting with Pelops.

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This is the second occurrence of the noun therapōn in the Iliad; the plural form here is therapontes. The surface meaning of therapōn in Homeric diction is ‘attendant’, and a fitting example is the word’s first occurrence in the Iliad, at I.01.321; the deeper meaning, however, is ‘ritual substitute’. In contexts where the plural therapontes in combination with Arēos ‘of Ares’ is applied to the Achaeans=Danaans=Argives (at I.02.110, to the Danaans) as a grouping of warriors, the deeper meaning is more evident than in other contexts. When a warrior is killed in war, he becomes a therapōn or ‘ritual substitute’ who dies for Ares by becoming identical to the war god at the moment of death; then, after death, the warrior is eligible to become a cult hero who serves as a sacralized ‘attendant’ of the war god in contexts of hero cult.

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The words of this challenge directed against the over-king Agamemnon by Sthenelos, chariot driver of Diomedes, recall the epic traditions of the Epigonoi = Sons-of-the-Seven-against-Thebes. Since Sthenelos figures as a character in two epic traditions, both the Iliadic and the Epigonic, his wording here can be seen as a cross-reference from the Iliadic tradition to the Epigonic. The cross-reference sets up a rivalry between the two epic traditions: the question is, are the Epigonoi as heroic characters superior to the heroic characters of the Iliad?

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analysis of the coexistence of the Attic and the Koine usage in this verse and the claim that ‘Homer’ was capable of both

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This word indicates the language of blame vs. praise. Such words can refer to blame as a foil for epic.

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The expression erizemenai basileusin ‘engage in strife against kings’ is a programmatic way of referring to the language of blame as a challenge to royalty. In the Iliad, Thersites is a prime exponent of blame poetry. He has a “speaking name” (nomen loquens), since Thersī́tēs is related to the noun thersos/thrasos, which refers to a negative kind of ‘boldness’ in contexts of blame poetry: see the comment at O.18.001–004.

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The programmatic representation of Thersites as an exponent of blame poetry is summed up in the description of this character as aiskhistos ‘most disgraceful’. In the Poetics of Aristotle (1449a), the semantics of the underlying (a) noun aiskhos ‘disgrace, shame’ and (b) adjective aiskhron ‘disgraceful, shameful’ can be seen as the basic context of blame poetry.

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The content of the words of Thersites as blame poetry is matched by the form of the blame poet: just as the content is ugly, the form too is ugly. Thersites actually looks ugly. If we compare the figure of Thersites with the figure of Aesop, who is represented in myth as an exponent of blame as well as praise whenever he performs an ainos ‘fable’, those aspects of Aesop that gravitate toward blame are reflected in the portrayals of this character as markedly ugly.

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As an exponent of blame poetry, which is antithetical to the poetry of epic as a vehicle for praising what is good about heroes, Thersites is truly ekhthistos ‘most hateful’ to the primary two heroes of epic poetry as represented by the Homeric Iliad and Odyssey, who are of course Achilles and Odysseus respectively. As we read at I.02.220–221, Thersites has his quarrels especially with these two heroes, and the verb neikeîn ‘quarrel with’ as used here at I.02.221, together with the corresponding noun neikos ‘quarrel’ as used elsewhere, refers programmatically to the poetics of blame.

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Besides the noun neikos (plural neikea) ‘quarrel’ and the verb neikeîn ‘quarrel with’, on both of which see the comment on I.02.221, another set of words referring to the poetics of blame as antithetical to the poetics of praise in general and of epic in particular is the noun oneidos (plural oneidea), as here, meaning ‘words of insult’, and the verb oneidein, meaning ‘say words of insult’, as elsewhere.

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Here again, the verb neikeîn ‘quarrel with’ refers to the poetics of blame.

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Epic quotes here directly the poetry of blame as displayed by Thersites. His words of blame are introduced and concluded at I.02.224 and I.02.243 respectively by way of the word neikeîn ‘quarrel with’. Although Thersites addresses Agamemnon, insulting him directly, he insults indirectly all the Achaeans, including Achilles. Among the specific insults hurled at Agamemnon are accusations of greedy behavior, I.02.237.

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Thersites directs his blame at the Achaeans, ridiculing them by feminizing them. The noun elenkhos ‘disgrace’ is meant to shame the persons insulted by the poetics of blame.

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Here the words of blame uttered by Thersites insult Achilles, calling into question the motives of that hero. It is as if the anger of Achilles were not real. This kind of misrepresentation by way of blame poetry is described as ekhthrā parphasis ‘invidious side-wording’ in Pindar Nemean 8.32.

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Thersites here is insulted by words of blame because he has used the words of blame to insult the noble. Nobility, when insulted by words of blame, can stoop to insult in return by way of using the same words.

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The insulting language of Thersites is here being insulted in return: his discourse is described as a-krito-mūthos ‘having words that cannot be sorted out’. So, the blame poetry of Thersites is bad poetry.

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Throughout this speech, Thersites is insulted by words of blame because he has used the words of blame to insult the noble.

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Here again, the expression erizemenai basileusin ‘engage in strife against kings’ is a programmatic way of referring to the language of blame as a challenge to royalty.

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Just as Achilles and Odysseus are the ‘best of the Achaeans’, Thersites is the ‘worst’, according to the insulting words of counter-blame spoken by Oydsseus.

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This word kertomeîn ‘say words of insult’ is yet another term referring to the act of insulting by way of blame poetry.

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Thersites, by blaming the heroes of the Iliad, had intended to turn them into objects of laughter by way of ridicule. But the blame is reversed, and now it is Thersites who becomes the object of laughter.

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This word epes-bolos ‘thrower of words’ is yet another term referring to the act of insulting by way of blame poetry. A possible parallel is Latin iocus, if derived from iaciō / iacere ‘throw’.

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one of Watkin’s three passages where menos is used as a functional equivalent of mēnis

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The omen of the serpent in Iliad 2 is comparable to the omen of the serpent in Virgil Aeneid 2.199–227.

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Here in the Iliad, the telos or ‘fulfillment’ of the plot is being realized only in the form of a prophecy—by contrast with the epic Cycle, where the conquest of Troy is the ultimate telos. On the epic Cycle, see the inventory of Words and Ideas. There are comparable themes in Virgil Aeneid 8.615-629, 729-731, featuring the Shield of Aeneas.

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The omen of the serpent that devours the nine birds is a sēma ‘sign, signal’ that calls for interpretation. This interpretation is needed, in terms of the poetry itself, for understanding the plot of the Iliad.

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The serpent, once it is petrified, is arizēlon / aridēlon ‘most visible’; according to an alternative version, the serpent does not get petrified but rather is made suddenly aïzēlon ‘invisible’.

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The reading aïdēlon ‘invisible’ at I.02.318, adduced by Aristarchus, is incompatible with this verse, I.02.319, which is accordingly athetized by him. On athetesis, see the inventory of Words and Ideas.

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comparison of the petrified serpent with Aeneas’ Shield, as prophecies of the story of Troy and the story of Rome, respectively

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The expression kleos oupot’ oleitai ‘its glory [kleos] will never perish’ (κλέος οὔποτ’ ὀλεῖται), as here at I.02.325, is parallel with kleos aphthiton estai (κλέος ἄφθιτον ἔσται) at I.09.413, which can be translated ‘the glory [kleos] will be imperishable [aphthiton]’. This parallelism shows that aphthito- at I.09.413 and elsewhere was understood to be not just long-lasting, as some have thought, but eternal. As for the interpretation ‘the glory [kleos] will be imperishable [aphthiton]’, we will see in the comment on I.09.413 that an alternative interpretation is also possible: ‘and there will be a glory [kleos] that is imperishable’.

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The petrified serpent is equated with the story of Troy, and the word teleîn ‘reach an outcome’ here conveys the inevitable outcome of that story. The prophecy expressed by teleîn reveals a poetics of unchangeability in narrating the story. And the concretization of such unchangeability is visualized as the petrifaction of the serpent. The imperfective aspect of the verb teleîn ‘reach an outcome’ here is referring to the story of Troy as it is still being told, as it is still in progress.

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Leonard Muellner

argument for the contextual unity of eukhesthai einai + comparative/superlative expressions regarding superiority in age on the one hand and prestige, physical prowess and physical beauty on the other (secular contexts)

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in a list of examples of eukhesthai einai + comparative/superlative (secular contexts)

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evidence for counting in arithmetic systems that lack a zero as indistinguishable from grouping

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example of handing on of the scepter in the context of discussing Achilles’ hurling it to the ground after his oath in I.01

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analysis of Agamemnon’s skēptron and gold as symbol for the artificial continuum of immortality (aphthito-) and the relevance of this for Achilles’ oath

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analysis of philotēs and timē going together, and here, Odysseus’ misapprehension regarding the object of Zeus’ timē, corrected by Agamemnon’s acknowledgement in I.09.116-118

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in a list of instances where phanai substitutes for eukhesthai where it is combined with comparative/superlative

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among examples of formal divergence between phrases which are functionally parallel but occur in spoken dialogue as against narrative (transformations of (A) paralleled in a secular series, of which this verse is an example)

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Richard Martin

When Odysseus addresses the kings and leaders in the testing scene of Book 2, he uses "mild words (epeessin)" to hold them back (2.188-89): Odysseus speaks to his social equals and uses epea. With the common soldiers he uses a muthos instead (2.198-201) (Martin 1993:23).

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With the common soldiers Odysseus uses a different register: "Whatever man of the people he saw or found shouting he would drive on with the scepter and berate with a muthos: 'Strange one, sit still and listen to the muthos of others who are stronger, while you are unwarlike and strengthless'" (2.198-201). When the lines of power are clearly drawn, the speaker who uses a muthos prevails (Martin 1993:23).

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The description of Thersites (a foil for Odysseus) concentrates on his inability to organize the discrete small units of his talk, the epea: "he who knew many disordered epea in his mind, rashly, not according to good order" (2.212-14). Muthoi are the large units, epea the small (Martin 1993:17).

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Odysseus' speech to the Achaeans in Book 2, recalling the divine sign at Aulis, is introduced by Athena herself restraining the audience so that he may speak the elaborate muthos at 2.284-332 (Martin 1993:63-64). One could score the speech by noting the shifts in genres of muthos within it: Odysseus begins with flyting, comparing the troops to children or women anxious to get home; memory takes over, noting it is the tenth year at Troy; a command intrudes ("Bear up, friends," 2.299-300); and this triggers a long rendition of an earlier prophecy by Kalkhas at Aulis, when the sign of the snake who ate the swallows appeared (Martin 1993:81).

Precise details—the altar and the springs near it, the snake's color, the number of birds and their cries—are remembered in the service of dramatic rhetoric intended to convince the Achaeans of the authenticity of the event, but also to raise the status of the one who remembers it. For Odysseus, in recalling the words of Kalkhas, exhibits a seerlike ability to describe and interpret what is not present. Memory bestows a mantle on its practitioners (Martin 1993:81-82).

The crucial difference between this type of performance and that of Nestor in his long narrative in Book 2 (656-803) has to do with the self-presentation of the speaker. Odysseus foregrounds himself as performer, explicitly quoting another authority—Kalkhas—whom he then can be seen to overcome in the contest of speaking: Kalkhas, as we saw in Book 1, does not even cite his own previous acts, whereas Odysseus remembers all, apparently. Nestor, on the other hand, presents himself not as a speaker but as a heroic performer of both words and deeds. His narrative of personal experience is convincing because it calls for emulation, even challenge (Martin 1993:82).

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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The first critical term to examine in the analysis of Thersites' speech is the insult Odysseus throws at him: akritomuthos (2.246). The admiring description of Menelaos' style, ou polumuthos (3.214), was correlated with a style that did not miss the mark by tossing words about aimlessly: oud' apharmatoepēs (3.215). When Thersites appears for the first time, the poet draws attention to qualities in his speech that directly oppose the good style of Menelaos: he speaks a great deal and he does not put his words in good order (epea . . . akosma . . . polla, 2.213). The implication that Thersites misses the mark of proportionate speech comes in Homer's observation that the blamer says whatever he thinks will get a laugh (2.215). In other words, he is just an entertainer, not a "performer" in the heroic sense (Martin 1993:109-10).

Thersites' style deserves no respect because he does not have the heroic martial performance record needed to back up his words: style for the hero is a total notion, a proportion of words and deeds. Because Thersites does not have a valid poetic memory for his own career, the audience of Achaean heroes and epic hearers cannot perform the critical judgment necessary to validate his muthos. It remains "indeterminate" or "undiscriminated." The verbal idea contained in the first part of the compound adjective akritomuthos is one of careful selection, what a commander must exercise to pick out the best troops (2.362, krin'), the opposite of massing things together—in a word, critical ability. The term, then, underscores a performance value: the capacity to judge one's own acts and be judged for them (Martin 1993:110-11).

In the other passage where muthoi are called "undiscriminated," the lack of connection between verbal behavior and martial performance is prominently foregrounded. Iris rebukes Priam (2.796-97): "Old man, to you unjudged words are always dear as once during peace. But war inescapable has arisen." "Unjudged muthoi" is a contradiction in terms; such words would be a masquerade of martial speech in the context of peace. Real muthoi require action (Martin 1993:110-11).

The evidence of meter reinforces the stylistic analysis. When Thersites' speech (2.225-42) is performed aloud, it contains massive correption—the reduction of long vowels and diphthongs from their usual metrical value as "heavy" syllables to "light," short values. A count of correptions per number of lines shows that Thersites' eighteen verses contain this feature ten times, a rate of 55 percent. By contrast, Nestor's correption rate in the speech of 1.254-84 is 30 percent (nine times in thirty lines). The average rate of correption for narrative verses in the poem is 20 percent; for speeches it is 40 percent. Nestor, "of sweet speech," sounds like Homer as we first hear him; Thersites is quite literally "without meter" in his performance, markedly more so than the average hero (Martin 1993:112-13).

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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Odysseus' description in Book 2 of the divine sign at Aulis (2.308-29) provides one of the most important parallels for Achilles' bird simile in Book 9. In the augury passage, a blood-red snake devours eight sparrows while their mother, soon to be eaten herself, hovered nearby. Odysseus calls the nestlings phila tekna—an example of the pathetic fallacy consistently applied by Homeric augurs—and says the mother was grieved. This description in the discourse of augury is compared by Kalkhas on purely numerical grounds; the Trojan Polydamas similarly combines sentiment with advice in his allegorical reading of a bird-sign (12.209-22). Both augurs draw a prospective moral from the bird image. Achilles, before comparing himself to a bird and drawing conclusions from the equation, uses a phrase similar to Polydamas' preface (autar egōn ereō hōs moi dokei einai arista, 9.314; cf. nun aut' exereō hōs moi dokei einai arista, 12.215). Like Odysseus, Achilles fills out his description of the parent bird in the pathetic manner. But his individual shaping of this piece of description consists in pointing the moral toward himself and toward the past: "So, too, I slept sleepless nights," says Achilles. The fall of Troy, and the outcome of battle, are not his concern, as they are in the other, similar bird auguries (Martin 1993:203-4).

For the bird simile itself and its context in Achilles' speech, see the comment on Iliad 9.323-326. For the broader analysis of Achilles' speech, see the comment on Iliad 9.307-429.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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