Plutarch, Septem sapientium convivium, Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator), 11

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[11] Mnesiphilus the Athenian, ¹ a warm friend and admirer of Solon’s, said, I think it is no more than fair, Periander, that the conversation, like the wine, should not be apportioned on the basis of wealth or rank, but equally to all, as in a democracy, and that it should be general. Now in what has just been said dealing with dominion and kingdom, we who live under a popular government have no part. Therefore I think that at this time each of you ought to contribute an opinion on the subject of republican government, beginning again with Solon.

It was accordingly agreed to do this, and Solon began by saying, But you, Mnesiphilus, as well as all the rest of the Athenians, have heard the opinion which I hold regarding government. However, if you wish to hear it again now, I think that a State succeeds best, and most effectively perpetuates democracy, in which persons uninjured by a crime, no less than the injured person, prosecute the criminal and get him punished.

Second was Bias, who said that the most excellent democracy was that in which the people stood in as much fear of the law as of a despot.

Following him Thales said that it was the one having citizens neither too rich nor too poor.

After him Anacharsis said that it was the one in which, all else being held in equal esteem, what is better is determined by virtue and what is worse by vice.

Fifth, Cleobulus said that a people was most righteous whose public men dreaded censure more than they dreaded the law.

Sixth, Pittacus said that it was where bad men are not allowed to hold office, and good men are not allowed to refuse it.

Chilon, turning to the other side,² declared that the best government is that which gives greatest heed to laws and least heed to those who talk about them.

Finally, Periander once more concluded the discussion with the decisive remark, that they all seemed to him to approve a democracy which was most like an aristocracy.

Septem sapientium convivium. Plutarch. Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1928.

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Current edition Perseus

The Dinner of the Seven Wise Men (English) (Plutarch. Moralia, Vol. II. Babbitt, Frank Cole, translator. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1928 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πων επτά σοφών συμπόσιον Perseus (Plutarch. Plutarchi Chaeronensis Moralia, Vol I. Vernardakēs, Grēgorios N,, editor. Leipzig. Teubner, 1888.) — 11 focus

[11] Μνησίφιλος δʼ ὁ Ἀθηναῖος, ἑταῖρος ὢν καὶ ζηλωτὴς Σόλωνος, ἐγώ τοι εἶπεν ὦ Περίανδρε τὸν λόγον ἀξιῶ καθάπερ τὸν οἶνον μὴ πλουτίνδην 25 154d μηδʼ ἀριστίνδην ἀλλʼ ἐξ ἴσου πᾶσιν ὥσπερ ἐν δημοκρατίᾳ νέμεσθαι καὶ κοινὸν εἶναι· τῶν δʼ ἄρτι περὶ ἀρχῆς καὶ βασιλείας εἰρημένων οὐδὲν ἡμῖν τοῖς δημοτικοῖς μέτεστιν. ὅθεν οἰόμεθα δεῖν πάλιν ἕκαστον ὑμῶν περὶ πολιτείας ἰσονόμου γνώμην τινὰ συμβαλέσθαι, ἀρξαμένους αὖθις ἀπὸ Σόλωνος. Ἐδόκει δὴ ταῦτα ποιεῖν. καὶ πρῶτος ὁ Σόλων ἀλλʼ ἀκήκοας μέν εἶπεν ὦ Μνησίφιλε μετὰ πάντων Ἀθηναίων ἣν ἔχω γνώμην περὶ πολιτείας· εἰ δὲ βούλει 5 καὶ νῦν ἀκούειν, δοκεῖ μοι πόλις ἄριστα πράττειν καὶ μάλιστα σῴζειν δημοκρατίαν, ἐν ᾗ τὸν ἀδικήσαντα 154e τοῦ ἀδικηθέντος οὐδὲν ἧττον οἱ μὴ ἀδικηθέντες προβάλλονται καὶ κολάζουσι Δεύτερος δʼ ὁ Βίας ἔφησε¹ κρατίστην εἶναι δημοκρατίαν ἐν πάντες 10 ὡς τύραννον φοβοῦνται τὸν νόμον. ἐπὶ τούτῳ Θαλῆς τὴν μήτε πλουσίους ἄγαν μήτε πένητας ἔχουσαν πολίτας. μετὰ δὲ τοῦτον ὁ Ἀνάχαρσις ἐν ᾗ τῶν ἄλλων ἴσων νομιζομένων ἀρετῇ τὸ βέλτιον ὁρίζεται, κακίᾳ² δὲ τὸ χεῖρον. πέμπτος δʼ ὁ Κλεόβουλος 15 ἔφη μάλιστα σωφρονεῖν δῆμον ὅπου τὸν ψόγον μᾶλλον οἱ πολιτευόμενοι δεδοίκασιν ἢ τὸν νόμον. ἕκτος δὲ³ Πιττακός, ὅπου τοῖς πονηροῖς οὐκ ἔξεστιν ἄρχειν καὶ τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς οὐκ ἔξεστι μὴ ἄρχειν. μετατραπεὶς⁴ 154f δʼ ὁ Χίλων ἀπεφήνατο τὴν μάλιστα νόμων ἥκιστα 20 δὲ ῥητόρων ἀκούουσαν πολιτείαν ἀρίστην εἶναι. τελευταῖος δὲ πάλιν ὁ Περίανδρος ἐπικρίνων ἔφη δοκεῖν αὐτῷ πάντας ἐπαινεῖν δημοκρατίαν τὴν ὁμοιοτάτην ἀριστοκρατίᾳ.

Translations (1)

The Banquet of the Seven Wise Men Perseus (Plutarch. Plutarch's Morals, Vol. II. Goodwin, William W., editor; Davis, Roger, translator. Boston. Little, Brown, and Company, 1874.) — 11 focus

[11] Mnesiphilus the Athenian, a friend and favorite of Solon’s, said: O Periander, our discourse, as our wine, ought to be distributed not according to our power or priority, but freely and equally, as in a popular state; for what hath been already discoursed concerning kingdoms and empires signifies little to us who live in a democracy. Wherefore I judge it convenient that every one of you beginning with Solon, should freely and impartially declare his sense of a popular state. The motion pleased all the company; then saith Solon: My friend Mnesiphilus, you heard, together with the rest of this good company, my opinion concerning republics; but since you are willing to hear it again, I hold that city or state happy and most likely to remain democratic, in which those that are not personally injured are yet as forward to question and correct wrongdoers as that person who is more immediately wronged. Bias added, Where all fear the law as they fear a tyrant. Thirdly, Thales said, Where the citizens are neither too rich nor too poor. Fourthly, Anacharsis said, Where, though in all other respects they are equal, yet virtuous men are advanced and vicious persons degraded. Fifthly, Cleobulus said, Where the rulers fear reproof and shame more than the law. Sixthly, Pittacus said, Where bad men are prohibited from ruling, and good men from not ruling. Chilo, pausing a little while, determined that the best and most durable state was where the subject minded the law most and the orators least. Periander concluded with his opinion, that all of them would best approve that democracy which came next and was likest to an arisocracy.

Notes on the current edition

The Dinner of the Seven Wise Men

1. Mnesiphilus, according to Plutarch, Life of Themistocles, chap. ii. (p. 112 D), handed down the political wisdom of Solon to Themistocles. At any rate Herodotus, viii. 57, represents Mnesiphilus as advising Themistocles against withdrawing the Greek fleet from Salamis. Cf. also Plutarch, Moralia, 869 D-E.

2. Chilon, a rather strict Spartan ( cf. 152 D supra), is impatient of opinions which suggest that the attitude of the people is more important than the law.

Plutarch Septem sapientium convivium 11

Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator)

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