Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Élie-Ami Bétant (Translator), 6.36

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« Il faut être un lâche ou un mauvais citoyen pour ne pas souhaiter que les Athéniens commettent la folie de venir se livrer entre nos mains. Que certains hommes prompts à s'alarmer cherchent à répandre l’inquiétude parmi vous, leur audace n’a rien qui m’étonne; ce qui m’étonne, c’est leur sottise, s’ils s’imaginent n’être pas démasqués. Ces rumeurs menaçantes, la timidité s’en saisit et les colporte, afin de dérober sa propre frayeur sous le voile de la frayeur publique. Voilà toute leur portée. Elles ne sont pas nées spontanément, elles émanent de gens qui s’efforcent par là d’entretenir une agitation permanente.

« Pour vous, si vous m’en croyez, vous ne jugerez pas l’avenir d’après des bruits sans consistance, mais d’après ce qu’on doit attendre de l’expérience consommée des Athéniens. Est-il à croire que, laissant derrière eux le Péloponèse mal pacifié, ils se jettent de gaieté de cœur dans une autre guerre non moins sérieuse? Ils doivent, ce semble, tenir à grand bonheur que nous n’allions pas les attaquer, nous dont les villes sont si nombreuses et si puissantes.

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Élie-Ami Bétant (Translator). Paris. 1863.

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Current edition First1KGreek

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése (French) (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] ‘τοὺς μὲν Ἀθηναίους ὅστις μὴ βούλεται οὕτω κακῶς φρονῆσαι καὶ ὑποχειρίους ἡμῖν γενέσθαι ἐνθάδε ἐλθόντας, ἢ δειλός ἐστιν ἢ τῇ πόλει οὐκ εὔνους· τοὺς δὲ ἀγγέλλοντας τὰ τοιαῦτα καὶ περιφόβους ὑμᾶς ποιοῦντας τῆς μὲν τόλμης οὐ θαυμάζω, τῆς δὲ ἀξυνεσίας, εἰ μὴ οἴονται ἔνδηλοι εἶναι.

[2] οἱ γὰρ δεδιότες ἰδίᾳ τι βούλονται τὴν πόλιν ἐς ἔκπληξιν καθιστάναι, ὅπως τῷ κοινῷ φόβῳ τὸν σφέτερον ἐπηλυγάζωνται. καὶ νῦν αὗται αἱ ἀγγελίαι τοῦτο δύνανται· οὐκ ἀπὸ ταὐτομάτου, ἐκ δὲ ἀνδρῶν οἵπερ αἰεὶ τάδε κινοῦσι ξύγκεινται.

[3] ὑμεῖς δὲ ἢν εὖ βουλεύησθε, οὐκ ἐξ ὧν οὗτοι ἀγγέλλουσι σκοποῦντες λογιεῖσθε τὰ εἰκότα, ἀλλ’ ἐξ ὧν ἂν ἄνθρωποι δεινοὶ καὶ πολλῶν ἔμπειροι, ὥσπερ ἐγὼ Ἀθηναίους ἀξιῶ, δράσειαν.

[4] οὐ γὰρ αὐτοὺς εἰκὸς Πελοποννησίους τε ὑπολιπόντας καὶ τὸν ἐκεῖ πόλεμον μήπω βεβαίως καταλελυμένους ἐπ’ ἄλλον πόλεμον οὐκ ἐλάσσω ἑκόντας ἐλθεῖν, ἐπεὶ ἔγωγε ἀγαπᾶν οἴομαι αὐτοὺς ὅτι οὐχ ἡμεῖς ἐπ’ ἐκείνους ἐρχόμεθα, πόλεις τοσαῦται καὶ οὕτω μεγάλαι.

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] "He is either a coward or not well affected to the state, whosoever he be, that wishes the Athenians not to be so mad as coming hither to fall into our power. As for them that report such things as these and put you into fear, though I wonder not at their boldness, yet I wonder at their folly, if they think their ends not seen.

[2] For they that are afraid of anything themselves will put the city into affright that they may shadow their own with the common fear. And this may the reports do at this time, not raised by chance, but framed on purpose by such as always trouble the state.

[3] But if you mean to deliberate wisely, make not your reckoning by the reports of these men but by that which wise men and men of great experience, such as I hold the Athenians to be, are likely to do.

[4] For it is not probable that, leaving the Peloponnesians and the war there not yet surely ended, they should willingly come hither to a new war no less the former, seeing, in my opinion, they may be glad that we invade not them, so many and so great cities as we are.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] ‘For the Athenians, he who does not wish that they may be as misguided as they are supposed to be, and that they may come here to become our subjects, is either a coward or a traitor to his country; while as for those who carry such tidings and fill you with so much alarm, I wonder less at their audacity than at their folly if they flatter themselves that we do not see through them.

[2] The fact is that they have their private reasons to be afraid, and wish to throw the city into consternation to have their own terrors cast into the shade by the public alarm. In short, this is what these reports are worth; they do not arise of themselves, but are concocted by men who are always causing agitation here in Sicily .

[3] However, if you are well advised, you will not be guided in your calculation of probabilities by what these persons tell you, but by what shrewd men and of large experience, as I esteem the Athenians to be, would be likely to do.

[4] Now it is not likely that they would leave the Peloponnesians behind them, and before they have well ended the war in Hellas wantonly come in quest of a new war quite as arduous, in Sicily ; indeed, in my judgment, they are only too glad that we do not go and attack them, being so many and so great cities as we are.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 6.36 focus

„Wer nicht selber wünscht, daß die Athener auf solche
Thorheit verfallen, hieher zu kommen, um sich uns in die Hände zu
geben, der ist entweder feig, oder meint es nicht gut mit der Stadt.
Ueber die Keckheit derjenigen aber, welche euch dergleichen ankündigen,
um euch recht Angst zu machen, wundere ich mich keineswegs, wohl
aber über ihre Dummheit, wofern sie nämlich glauben, nicht durch-
schaut zu werden. Wer nämlich für seine Person etwas zu fürchten ¹
hat, der will sogleich den ganzen Staat in Furcht und Verwirrung
setzen, um unter der allgemeinen Furcht die seinige zu verstecken, und
ein anderer Kern ist denn auch hinter diesen Botschaften nicht zu
suchen: sie sind keineswegs von selbst entstanden, sondern von Leuten
erdichtet, welche von jeher in unsere Angelegenheiten Verwirrung
bringen wollen. Ihr aber, sofern ihr euch gut zu berathen denkt,
werdet nicht nach dem Gerede dieser Männer auf die wahrscheinliche
Wahrheit schließen wollen, sondern nach dem, was so tüchtige und
vielerfahrene Menschen, wie es die Athener meiner Meinung nach
sind, wohl thun würden. Denn es ist nicht wahrscheinlich, daß sie
die Peloponnesier im Rücken lassen und, ohne noch den dortigen Krieg
aus eine für sie sichere Weise beendigt zu haben, aus freiem Entschluß
zu einem andern, nicht unbedeutenderen Krieg ausziehen sollten. Ich
bin vielmehr im Gegentheil der Meinung, daß sie recht froh find,
wenn wir, ein Bund von so vielen und großen Städten, nicht gegen
sie ziehen."

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 6.36 focus

„Wer nicht wünscht, daß die Athener so töricht sind,
hierherzukommen, um sich bei uns die Finger zu verbrennen,
ist entweder ein Feigling, oder er meint eS nicht ehrlich mit
der Stadt. Wenn man aber solche Nachrichten verbreitet
und euch damit bange machen will, so wundere ich mich
nicht über die Dreistigkeit, sondern über den Unverstand, zu
glauben, man merke die Absicht nicht. Weil man selbst ein
schlechtes Gewissen hat, will man die ganze Stadt in Angst
versetzen, um im Schatten der allgemeinen Furcht gute Ge
schäfte zu machen. Weiter hat es jetzt auch mit diesen Ge
rüchten nichts zu bedeuten. Sie sind nicht von ungefähr ent
standen, sondern von Leuten erfunden, die uns mit ihren
Treibereien beständig in Atem halten. Ihr dürft euch aber
eure Ansicht über die Glaubwürdigkeit solcher Gerüchte nicht
darnach bilden, was sie euch aufbinden, sondern nach dem,
was ein so geriebenes und vielerfahrenes Volk, wofür ich
die Athener halte, vermutlich tun wird. Und da ist es doch
sehr unwahrscheinlich, daß sie die Peloponnesier hinter sich
lassen und, bevor sie den dortigen Krieg wirklich beigelegt
haben, sich in einen neuen, nicht minder gefährlichen Krieg
stürzen werden; ja, ich glaube, sie werden schon froh sein,
wenn wir, alle die mächtigen Städte hier, nicht auch über
sie herfallen.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.36 focus

XXXVI. « Quiconque ne désire pas que les Athéniens aient cette folle pensée et viennent se livrer ici entre nos mains, est ou un lâche, ou un ennemi de sa patrie. Quant à ceux qui apportent de pareilles nouvelles et jettent l’effroi parmi vous, ce qui m’étonne, ce n’est pas leur audace, mais leur sottise, s’ils ne sentent pas que leurs motifs sont à jour. Ceux qui personnellement ont peur, veulent jeter l’effroi dans le public afin de dissimuler leurs propres sentiments sous le voile de la consternation générale. Tel est en ce moment le but de ces nouvelles : elles ne se produisent pas d’elles-mêmes, mais émanent d’hommes qui ne savent qu’exciter sans cesse de telles agitations. Quant à vous, si vous êtes sages, vous prendrez en considération, pour vous guider sur le parti à prendre, non ce qu’annoncent de telles gens, mais ce que doivent faire des hommes prudents et d’une grande expérience, tels que je me figure les Athéniens. Il n’est pas vraisemblable qu’ils laissent derrière eux les Péloponnésiens, et qu’avant d’avoir définitivement terminé la guerre chez eux, ils viennent de propos délibéré entreprendre une autre guerre non moins considérable. Car, pour ma part, je suis convaincu qu’ils se félicitent, au contraire, en voyant le nombre et la puissance de nos cités, de ce que nous n’allons pas les attaquer nous-mêmes.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] "As to the Athenians, whoever does not wish them to be so ill witted as to come here and fall into our hands, is either a coward or not loyal to the state; as to the men, however, who tell such stories and fill you with fear, I do not wonder at their audacity so much as at their simplicity, if they fancy we do not see through them.

[2] For men who have some private grounds of fear wish to plunge the city into consternation, in order that in the common fear their own may be overshadowed. So now this is the meaning of these reports, which are not spontaneous, but have been concocted by men who are always stirring up trouble here.

[3] But you, if you are well advised, will examine and form your estimate of what is probable, not from what these men report, but from what shrewd men of much experience, such as I deem the Athenians to be, would be likely to do.

[4] For it is not probable that they would leave the Peloponnesians behind them before they have yet brought the war there surely to an end, and voluntarily come here to prosecute another war quite as great; for I myself think that they are content that we do not come against them, being so numerous and so powerful.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] "With regard to the Athenians, whoever does not wish them to be so senseless, and to be reduced into subjection to us by coming here, is either a coward, or ill affected towards his country. But with regard to those who bring such tidings, and fill you with such excessive fear, I wonder at them, not for their audacity, but for their folly, if they imagine that they are not seen through.

[2] For being afraid themselves, they wish to throw the whole city into consternation, in order that they may get their own terror thrown into the shade by the general alarm. And now this is the real value of these reports: they do not arise in a natural way, but are concocted by men who are always raising commotions here.

[3] But you, if well advised, will not look at and estimate probabilities by the news which these persons bring, but by what men of talent and great experience, as I presume the Athenians are, would be likely to do.

[4] For it is not probable that they, leaving the Peloponnesians behind them, and not having yet brought the war at home to a sure conclusion, should voluntarily come here for another no less arduous; since, in my opinion, they are quite contented that we, with so many and so great cities as we have, are not going against them.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.36.1 focus

[1] « Quisquis non cupit Athenienses quidem eo dementiae progredi, ut liuc profecti in nostram potestatem redigantur, is aut timidus est aut reipublicae non benevolus; illorum vero, qui res hujusmodi nuntiant magnumque metum vobis incutiunt, audaciam quidem non miror, sed imprudentiam , si sua consilia patere non putant.

[2] Qui enim privatim aliquid formidant, rempuhlicam in magno timore constituere volunt, ut publico metu suum occulteut. Et nunc isti rumores eo spectant; neque enim sua sponte, sed ab hominibus, qui semper talia movent, composita sunt.

[3] Vos vero, si recte consultetis, non ex rerum, quas isti nuntiant, consideratione deliberabitis de rebus, quas Iacere decet, sed ex iis, quae viri prudentes et multarum rerum periti, quales ego Athenienses esse puto, facerent.

[4] Non est enim credibile, eos Peloponnesiis relictis bel-loque nondum illic plane composito ad alterum bellum non minus ultro venire, siquidem ego existimo, eos contentos esse, quod nos, qui lol atque tam magnae civitates sumus, i bellum ipsis non inferamus.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.36 focus

« Chi non desidera che gli Ateniesi sieno giunti a tanto di stoltezza da venir qua per mettersi nelle nostre mani, o è un vile, o non vuol bene alla patria. Di quelli poi che vi annunziano tali cose e vi sbigottiscono, io ammiro non l’audacia ma la dabbenaggine, se credono non manifestarsi quali sono. Imperciocché quei che temono di qualche cosa in particolare, vogliono mettere in costernazione la città, per abbuiare la propria colla paura comune. Ed or tali nuove vanno a parare a questo ; esse non si spargono da per sé, ma son composte da gente che siffatti movimenti di continuo rimugina. Voi però, se avrete senno, farete ragione di quel che può avvenire, considerandolo non dalle novelle che costoro vi arrecano , ma da ciò che dovran fare uomini sottili e di molte cose esperti, quali io tengo gli Ateniesi. E vinca il vero, non è credibile che vogliano lasciarsi dietro i Peloponnesi, e senza aver per anche acconciata stabilmente la guerra di là, venire spontaneamente ad un’altra non minore; e si contenteranno , a mio avviso, che noi con tante e sì grandi città non andiamo contro di loro.

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

τοὺς μὲν κτλ —a chance hexameter.

οὕτω —as my opponents describe.

τόλμης — i e. their boldness in trying to raise such scares, οἵπερ ἀεὶ τάδε κινοῦσι. (The word is not sarcastic here, as some edd. think.)

δεδιότες ἰδίᾳ τι —‘those who have some private anxiety of their own’— i.e. as explained in c. 38, 2 βουλόμενοι καταπλήξαντες τὸ ὑμέτερον πλῆθος αὑτοὶ τῆς πόλεως ἄρχειν: they are afraid that unless they raise a scare they cannot conceal their designs.

τὸ σφέτερον —not ‘their fear,’ but ‘their design to get the control of things,’ ‘their secret.’ See crit. note. ἐπηλυγάζομαι—ἠλύγη= σκότος: and see L. & S. under λύγη.

τοῦτο δύνανται —Classen makes this apply to what precedes, and is therefore obliged to insert αἵ after δύνανται. But all that preceded was a general statement: at καὶ νῦν begins the application to the particular case. ‘So ( καί) now these reports mean this: they are . . the work of men who are always trying to disturb us’ (with ulterior motives). For

τάδε cf. c. 34, 3.

ἐκ before ἀνδρῶν is for ὑπό, an Ionic and poetical use.

ἐξ ὧν = ἐκ τούτων ἃ . .

ὥσπερ . . ἀξιῶ —sc. δρᾶσαι ἄν, and άξιῶ= νομίζω .

ἀγαπᾶν . . ὅτι —so with εἰ, ἐἀν.

αὐτοὺς . . ἐκείνους —apply to the same persons, as often; cf. c. 61 κατέγνωσαν αὐτοῦ καὶ τῶν μετ’ ἐκείνου. Sometimes ἐκεῖνος is first, as Plat. Resp. p. 343 C εὐδαίμονα ἐκεῖνον ποιοῦσιν ὑπηρετοῦντες αὐτῷ.

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.36

Élie-Ami Bétant (Translator)

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