Titus Livius (Livy), Ab urbe condita, Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor), 45.24

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[1]

quid igitur superat, quod purgemus, ¹ si nec factum hostile ullum nostrum est, et ² verba tumidiora legati offensionem aurium, non perniciem civitatis meruerunt?

[2]

voluntatis nostrae tacitae ³ velut litem aestimari vestris inter vos sermonibus audio, patres conscripti: favisse nos regi et illum ilium vincere maluisse, ideo bello persequendos esse credunt alii;

[3]

alii ⁴ vestrum voluisse quidem nos hoc, non tamen ob id bello persequendos esse; neque moribus neque legibus ullius civitatis ita comparatum esse ut, si qui velit ⁵ inimicum perire, si ⁶ nihil fecerit, quo id fiat, capitis damnetur.

[4]

his , qui nos poena, non crimine liberant, gratiam quidem habemus; ipsi nobis hanc dicimus legem: si omnes ⁷ voluimus, ⁸ quod arguimur—non distinguimus voluntatem a facto—, omnes plectamur;

[5]

si alii principum nostrorum vobis, alii regi faverunt, non postulo ut propter nos, qui partium vestrarum fuimus, regis fautores salvi sint; illud deprecor, ne nos propter illos pereamus.

[6]

non estis vos illis infestiores, quam civitas est ⁹ ipsa; et hoc quia ¹⁰ sciebant, plerique corum aut profugerunt aut mortem sibi consciverunt; alii damnati a nobis in potestate vestra erunt, patres conscripti.

[7]

ceteri Rhodii sicut gratiam nullam meriti hoc bello, ita ne poenam quidem sumus. priorum nostrorum benefactorum cumulus hoc, quod nunc cessatum in officio est, expleat.

[8]

cum tribus regibus gessistis bella per hos annos; ne plus obsit nobis, quod uno bello cessavimus, quam quod duobus bellis pro vobis pugnavimus.

[9]

Philippum , Antiochum, Persea tamquam tris sententias ponite: duae nos absolvunt, una ¹¹ dubia est; ut gravior sit, illi de nobis si ¹² iudicarent, damnati essemus; vos iudicatis, patres conscripti, sit Rhodus in terris an funditus deleatur;

[10]

non enim de bello deliberatis, patres conscripti, quod inferre potestis, gerere non potestis, cum nemo Rhodiorum arma adversus vos sit ¹³ laturus.

[11]

si perseverabitis in ira, tempus a vobis petemus, quo hanc funestam legationem legationen domum domurn referamus; ¹⁴ omnia libera capita, quidquid Rhodiorum virorum feminarum est, cum omni pecunia nostra naves conscendemus

[12]

ac relictis penatibus publicis privatisque Romam veniemus et omni auro et argento, quidquid publici, quidquid ¹⁵ privati est, in comitio, in vestibulo curiae vestrae cumulato, corpora nostra coniugumque ac liberorum vestrae potestati permittemus, hic passuri, quodcumque patiendum erit;

[13]

procul ab oculis nostris urbs nostra diripiatur, incendatur.

[14]

hostis Rhodios esse Romani iudicare possunt, facere non possunt; ¹⁶ est enim et nostrum aliquod de nobis iudicium, quo numquam iudicabimus ¹⁷ nos vestros hostis, nec quicquam hostile, etiam si omnia patiemur, faciemus.

Ab urbe condita. Titus Livius (Livy). Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor). Medford, MA. .

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Ab urbe condita (Latin) (Livy in Fourteen Volumes. Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Schlesinger, Alfred C., editors. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959 (printing).)

Editions (2)

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Pars I-IV, Libri I-XL. Editio Stereotypica. Weissenborn, Wilhelm; Mueller, Moritz, editors. Leipzig: Teubner, 1884-1911.) — 45.24 focus

[1] quid igitur superat, quod purgemus, si nec factum hostile ullum nostrum est, et verba tumidiora legati offensionem aurium, non perniciem civitatis meruerunt?

[2] voluntatis nostrae tacitae velut litem aestimari vestris inter vos sermonibus audio, patres conscripti: favisse nos regi et illum vincere maluisse, ideo bello persequendos esse credunt alii;

[3] alii vestrum voluisse quidem nos hoc, non tamen ob id bello persequendos esse: neque moribus neque legibus ullius civitatis ita conparatum esse, ut, si qui velit inimicum perire, si nihil fecerit, quo id fiat, capitis damnetur.

[4] his, qui nos poena, non crimine liberant, gratiam quidem habemus; ipsi nobis hanc dicimus legem: si omnes voluimus, quod arguimur — non distinguimus voluntatem a facto — , omnes plectamur:

[5] si alii principum nostrorum vobis, alii regi faverunt, non postulo, ut propter nos, qui partium vestrarum fuimus, regis fautores salvi sint; illud deprecor, ne nos propter illos pereamus.

[6] non estis vos illis infestiores, quam civitas est ipsa; et hoc quia sciebant, plerique eorum aut profugerunt aut mortem sibi consciverunt; alii damnati a nobis in potestate vestra erunt, patres conscripti.

[7] ceteri Rhodii sicut gratiam nullam meriti hoc bello, ita ne poenam quidem sumus. priorum nostrorum benefactorum cumulus hoc, quod nunc cessatum in officio est, expleat.

[8] cum tribus regibus gessistis bella per hos annos; ne plus obsit nobis, quod uno bello cessavimus, quam quod duobus bellis pro vobis pugnavimus.

[9] Philippum, Antiochum, Persea tamquam tris sententias ponite: duae nos absolvunt, una dubia est; ut gravior sit, illi de nobis si iudicarent, damnati essemus; vos iudicatis, patres conscripti, sit Rhodus in terris an funditus deleatur;

[10] non enim de bello deliberatis, patres conscripti, quod inferre potestis, gerere non potestis, cum nemo Rhodiorum arma adversus vos sit laturus.

[11] si perseverabitis in ira, tempus a vobis petemus, quo hanc funestam legationem domum referamus; omnia libera capita, quidquid Rhodiorum virorum feminarum est, cum omni pecunia nostra naves conscendemus ac relictis penatibus publicis privatisque Romam veniemus et omni auro et argento,

[12] quidquid publici, quidquid privati est, in comitio, in vestibulo curiae vestrae cumulato, corpora nostra coniugumque ac liberorum vestrae potestati permittemus, hic passuri, quodcumque patiendum erit;

[13] procul ab oculis nostris urbs nostra diripiatur, incendatur.

[14] hostis Rhodios esse Romani iudicare possunt, facere non possunt; est enim et nostrum aliquod de nobis iudicium, quo numquam iudicabimus nos vestros hostis, nec quicquam hostile, etiam si omnia patiemur, faciemus.

Ab urbe condita libri, erklärt von M. Weissenborn Perseus (Weissenborn, W.; Müller, H. J., editors. Berlin: Weidmannsche Buchhandlung, 1873-1883.) — 45.24 focus

[1]

quid igitur superat, quod purgemus, si nec factum hostile ullum nostrum est, et verba tumidiora legati offensionem aurium, non ¹ perniciem civitatis meruerunt?

[2] voluntatis nostrae tacitae velut litem aestimari vestris inter vos sermonibus audio, patres conscripti: favisse nos regi et illum vincere maluisse, ideo bello persequendos esse credunt alii vestrum;

[3] alii voluisse quidem nos hoc, non tamen ob id bello persequendos esse: neque moribus neque legibus ullius civitatis ita conparatum esse, ut, si qui velit inimicum perire, si nihil fecerit, quo id fiat, capitis damnetur.

[4] his, qui nos poena, non crimine liberant, gratiam quidem habemus; ipsi nobis hanc dicimus legem: si omnes voluimus, quod arguimur, non distinguimus voluntatem a facto;

[5] omnes plectamur; si alii principum nostrorum vobis, alii regi faverunt, non postulo, ut propter nos, qui partium vestrarum fuimus, regis fautores salvi sint: ² illud deprecor, ne nos propter illos pereamus.

[6] non estis vos illis infestiores, quam civitas est ipsa; et hoc quia sciebant, plerique eorum aut profugerunt aut mortem sibi consciverunt, alii damnati a nobis in potestate vestra erunt, patres conscripti.

[7] ceteri Rhodii sicut gratiam nullam meriti hoc bello, ita ne poenam quidem sumus. priorum nostrorum bene factorum cumulus hoc, quod nunc cessatum in officio est, expleat.

[8] cum tribus regibus gessistis bella per hos annos; ne plus obsit nobis, quod uno bello cessavimus, quam quod duobus bellis pro vobis pugnavimus.

[9] Philippum, Antiochum, Persea tamquam tris sententias ponite; duae nos absolvunt, una dubia est; ut gravior sit, illi de nobis si iudicarent, damnati essemus: vos iudicatis, patres conscripti, sit Rhodus in terris an funditus deleatur.

[10] non enim de bello deliberatis, patres conscripti, quod inferre potestis, gerere non ³potestis, cum nemo Rhodiorum arma adversus vos laturus sit. si perseverabitis in ira,

[11] tempus a vobis petemus, quo hanc funestam legationem domum referamus. omnia libera capita, quidquid Rhodiorum virorum feminarum est,

[12] cum omni pecunia nostra naves conscendemus ac relictis penatibus publicis privatisque Romam veniemus et omni auro et argento, quidquid publici, quid quid privati est, in comitio, in vestibulo curiae vestrae cumulato, corpora nostra coniugumque ac liberorum vestrae potestati permittemus hic passuri, quodcumque patiendum erit;

[13] procul ab oculis nostris urbs nostra diripiatur, incendatur.

[14] hostis Rhodios esse Romani iudicare possunt ; est enim et nostrum aliquod de nobis iudicium, quo numquam iudicabimus nos vestros hostis, nec quicquam hostile, etiam si omnia patiemur, faciemus.’

Translations (3)

History of Rome Perseus (Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Sage, Evan T.; Schlesinger, Alfred C., translators. Cambridge, Mass.; London: Harvard University Press; William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959. (Loeb Classical Library)) — 45.24 focus

[1]

What then remains, of which we must clear ourselves, if there was never a hostile action on our part, and if the overweening words of an envoy should produce a disgust of the ear, ¹ not the ruin of a city?

[2]

I hear that in conversations among yourselves an appraisal of damages, so as to speak, is being made for our unexpressed desire; ²

[3]

some believe, gentlemen of the senate, that we favoured the king and preferred that he should win, and that therefore we should be punished by armed force; others of you feel that we did, to be sure, have this desire, but that we should not on that account be punished by armed force, for, they say, there is no provision in the law, written or unwritten, of any state that he who desires the death of his enemy, but does nothing to bring it about, shall incur capital punishment.

[4]

To these men who free us of the penalty, but not of the guilt, we are indeed grateful; but these are the terms which we ourselves ³ set for ourselves:

[5]

if we all have willed that of which we are accused —we do not separate the will from the deed —let us all suffer the penalty; but if some of our leaders favoured you, and others the king, I do not ask that because of us who sided with you the partizans of the king should be untouched; I merely beg that we may not perish because of them.

[6]

You are no more hostile to them than is our state itself, and because they knew this, many of them have either fled or committed suicide; others who have been found guilty by us will be placed in your hands, gentlemen of the senate.

[7]

The rest of us at Rhodes have no more deserved punishment during this war than we have deserved gratitude, either. Let the store of our previous helpful acts make good the present omission of service.

[8]

You have waged wars against three kings during these years; let not our slackness in one war be, to our hurt, of more importance than the fact that we fought on your side in two wars.

[9]

Take account of Philip, Antiochus, and Perseus as if of the vote of three judges; two acquit us, the third is undecided; suppose that it is for our condemnation; even so, if the Kings were judging us, we should indeed lose our case, but your judgment, gentlemen of the senate, determines whether Rhodes shall exist on earth or shall be destroyed root and branch.

[10]

For you are not deliberating about war, gentlemen of the senate; you can declare it, but you cannot wage it, for not a man of Rhodes will bear arms against you.

[11]

If you will not abate your wrath, we shall ask of you time in which to report home on this fatal mission; every free person, every ⁴ man and every woman of us in Rhodes will embark on ships with all our money and, abandoning our homes and our altars, will come to Rome;

[12]

we will heap up in the assembly-ground and in the entry of your senate-house all our gold and our silver, whether owned by the state or its citizens, and will put our persons and those of our wives and children in your power, that we may suffer here whatever we must suffer; ⁵ far from our sight be the plundering and burning of our city.

[13]

The Romans may judge that the Rhodians are enemies, but they cannot make them so.

[14]

For we have also in us the power of passing judgmenton ourselves, and we shall never adjudge ourselves your enemies, nor commit any act of hostility, though we suffer the utmost disaster.

History of Rome Perseus (Spillan, D.; Edmonds, Cyrus; McDevitte, William A., translators. London: Henry G. Bohn, 1849-1868. (Bohn's Classical Library)) — 45.24 focus

[1]

What charge then remains, of which we are to acquit ourselves, since there has been no hostile act on our part, and the insolent language of an ambassador, though grating to the ear, has not deserved the ruin of a state.

[2]

Conscript fathers, I hear that the estimate of the penalty for our secret wishes has become the subject of your conversation.

[3]

Some assert that we favoured the king, and therefore that we should be punished with war; others, that we did indeed wish him success, but ought not, on that account, to suffer the penalty of war, since it has not been so instituted either by the practice or laws of any state, that if any one should wish an enemy to perish, he should be condemned, provided that he did nothing towards effecting his wishes.

[4]

We feel, indeed, grateful to those who absolve us from the punishment, though not from the crime; but we lay down this law for ourselves: if we all entertained the wishes of which we are accused, we will then make no distinction between the will and the deed: let us all be punished.

[5]

If some of our people in power favoured you, and others the king, I do not demand, that for the sake of us who were on your side, the favourers of the king may be saved; but I deprecate our perishing through them.

[6]

You are not more inveterate against them than is our state itself; and most of them, when they ascertained this, fled, or put themselves to death, the others have been condemned by us, and they will soon be in your power, conscript fathers.

[7]

The rest of us Rhodians, as we have merited no thanks during the war, so neither have we deserved punishment. Let the accumulation of our former services atone for our present dereliction of duty.

[8]

You have recently waged war with three kings: let not the circumstance of our having been inactive in one of these wars, be more injurious to us than our having fought on your side in the other two has served us.

[9]

Consider Philip, Antiochus, and Perseus, as you would three votes; two of them acquit us; one, although it would be unfavourable, is nevertheless doubtful. If they were to sit in judgment over us, we would be condemned. Conscript fathers, you are to decide, whether Rhodes is to continue on the earth or to be utterly destroyed.

[10]

You are not deliberating concerning war, conscript fathers, for though it is in your power to declare war, it is not in your power to wage it, as not a single Rhodian will take up arms against you.

[11]

If you persist in your anger, we will beg time from you, until we carry home an account of this unhappy embassy. We will then, every free person of all the Rhodians, both men and women, with all our wealth, embark in ships, and leaving the seats of our tutelar deities, both public and private, repair to Rome, where, heaping together in the Comitium, at the door of your senate-house, all our gold

[12]

and silver, all the public and private property that we possess, we will submit our persons, and those of our wives and children, to your disposal; that, whatever we are to suffer, we may suffer here. Let our city be sacked and burned far away from our view.

[13]

The Romans may pass a judgment, that the Rhodians are enemies;

[14]

but we have also a right, in some degree, to judge ourselves; and we never will judge ourselves your enemies, nor do one hostile act, should we even suffer extreme calamities.

History of Rome Perseus (Volumes 1-2. Roberts, Canon, Rev, translator. London, New York: J. M. Dent and Sons; E. P. Dutton and Co., 1912.) — 45.24 focus

[1]

"If no hostile act can be imputed to us, if the pompous language of our envoy, offensive as it was to listen to, did not merit the destruction of our city, what is there left from which we have to clear ourselves?

[2] I hear, senators, that you are discussing the amount of the fine which is to be imposed upon us for our unspoken wishes.

[3] It is alleged that our sympathies were with the king and that we should have preferred to see him victorious, so, some of you think we ought to be punished by war, others hold that while that was our wish we ought not on that account to be punished. In no State has it been laid down either by traditional usage or by positive enactment that whoever wishes the destruction of an enemy, but does nothing to bring it about, shall still suffer capital punishment.

[4] To those of you who are for freeing us from the penalty though not from the charge we are grateful; we assert this principle for ourselves-if, as is alleged, this was the universal wish, we do not distinguish between will and deed, we are all involved.

[5] If some of our leaders were on your side and others on the side of the king, I do not ask that the supporters of the king should enjoy immunity on account of us who were on your side; what I do ask is that we should not perish on account of them.

[6] You are not more angry with them than our State itself is, and, knowing this, most of them have either fled or taken their own lives; others whom we have found guilty will be in your hands, senators.

[7] Though the conduct of the rest of us during the war has merited no gratitude, it certainly has not merited punishment. Let the accumulation of our former services outweigh this failure in our duty.

[8] During these late years you have been engaged in war with three kings; let not the fact that we gave no assistance in one war count more against us than the fact that we fought for you in two wars counts for us.

[9] Let Philip, Antiochus and Perseus stand for three separate verdicts; two acquit us, one is so doubtful as to be adverse. If they were our judges we should be pronounced guilty; you, senators, are now acting as judges as to whether Rhodes is to remain in the world or be utterly blotted out.

[10] The question before you is not one of war; you can commence one, but you cannot continue it, since not a single Rhodian is going to bear arms against you. If you persist in nursing your wrath against us we shall ask for time to carry the tidings of this fatal embassy home.

[11] All of us every free person, every man and woman in Rhodes, will go on board our ships with all the money we possess, and bidding farewell to our national and our household gods, we shall come to Rome.

[12] All the gold and silver belonging to the State, all that individual citizens possess, will be placed in a heap on the Comitium, on the threshold of your senate-house, and we shall deliver up ourselves, our wives and children to you, prepared to suffer whatever may be in store for us. Far removed from our eyes, let our city be plundered and burnt.

[13] The Romans have it in their power to judge the Rhodians to be public enemies, we too can pass some judgment on ourselves;

[14] we shall never judge ourselves to be your enemies, nor will we commit a single hostile act, even if we have to suffer everything that you can inflict upon us."

Notes on the current edition

Ab urbe condita

1. purgemus J. F. Gronovius: purgamus V.

2. et add. Fr : om. V.

3. tacitae I. Perizonius: tacite V.

4. alii add. heusinger : om. V.

5. velit vahlen : vellet V.

6. si vascosanus : utsii V.

7. A.U.C. 587

8. voluimus vascosanus : volumus V.

9. est Madvig : et V.

10. quia I. Perizonius: qui V.

11. una Fr : una aut V: si add. Fr : om. V: cola ita dis- posuit H. J. Müller. post legere vult: una aut dubia est aut gravior. sit : illi de nobis iudicarent, damnati essemus.

one is either undecided, or rather unfavourable. be it so, they would be passing judgement, whether we were guilty or not guilty.

12. una Fr : una aut V: si add. Fr : om. V: cola ita dis- posuit H. J. Müller. post legere vult: una aut dubia est aut gravior. sit : illi de nobis iudicarent, damnati essemus.

one is either undecided, or rather unfavourable. be it so, they would be passing judgement, whether we were guilty or not guilty.

13. sit add. novdk : om. V.

14. A.U.C. 587

15. quidquid ... quidquid Fr : quaequod ... quid V.

16. possunt, facere non possunt vahlen : possunt teste V: possunt, teste se Harant .

17. quo . . . iudicabimus J. F. Gronovius: quod... iudicauimus V.

Titus Livius (Livy) Ab urbe condita 45.24

Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor)

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