Titus Livius (Livy), Ab urbe condita, Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor), 38.49

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[1]

' Yes,' you say, for I fought on unfavourable ground. Tell me, then, in what more favourable place I could have fought. Since the enemy had occupied the mountain and were keeping themselves within a fortified place, naturally I had to go to the enemy if I wished to defeat them.

[2]

What if they had had a city in that place and were holding themselves within the walls? Naturally a siege would be necessary. Well, did Manius Acilius at Thermopylae fight with King Antiochus on favourable ground?

[3]

Well, was not Philip in the same fashion, when he held the crest of the mountains above the Aous, dislodged by Titus Quinctius? For my part, I: still do not discover what sort of enemy they are picturing to themselves, or what they want him to seem to you.

[4]

If he was an enemy degenerate and made effeminate by the pleasant life of Asia, what danger was there if we attacked even over unfavourable ground?

[5]

If he was an enemy to be feared because of both fierceness of temper and strength of body, why do you refuse a triumph to so great a. victory as this? It is blind jealousy, conscript Fathers, and it knows nothing except how to belittle deeds of valour and to spoil the distinctions and rewards they earn.

[6]

I beg that you will pardon me, conscript Fathers, on this ground, if my speech is made over-long, not by my desire to boast about myself, but by the need to defend myself against their accusations.

[7]

Again, could I make the passes in Thrace wide when they were narrow, level ground instead of steep, neat groves instead of wild forests, and could I guarantee that there should be no Thracian brigands lurking in ambushes known to¹

[8]

them, that there should be no loss of baggage, that no pack-animal from so long a train should be driven off, that no one should be wounded, that that brave and energetic man Quintus Minucius should not die from his wound?

[9]

They dwell on this misfortune, because it happened to our sorrow that we lost such a citizen;

[10]

the fact that, when the enemy attacked us in a defile hard to pass through, on unfavourable ground, the two divisions of our army, the van and the rear, at the same time surrounded the army of the barbarians which was lingering around our trains, that they killed and captured many thousands on that same day and many more

[11]

a few days later,² if they keep silent about all this, do they think that you will not learn of it, since the whole army is here to bear witness to what I

[12]

say? If I had not drawn sword in Asia, if I had seen no enemy, I should still have earned a triumph in Thrace by these two battles. But enough has already been

[13]

said; rather, I should wish, conscript Fathers, that pardon be asked and granted for my wearying you with a longer speech than I should have wished to make.

Ab urbe condita. Titus Livius (Livy). Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor). Medford, MA. .

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

History of Rome (English) (Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Sage, Evan T.; Schlesinger, Alfred C., translators. Cambridge, Mass.; London: Harvard University Press; William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959. (Loeb Classical Library))

Editions (3)

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Pars I-IV, Libri I-XL. Editio Stereotypica. Weissenborn, Wilhelm; Mueller, Moritz, editors. Leipzig: Teubner, 1884-1911.) — 38.49 focus

[1] iniquo enim loco dimicavi. dic igitur, quo aequiore potuerim dimicare. cum hostes montem cepissent, loco se munito tenerent, nempe eundum ad hostes erat, si vincere vellem.

[2] quid? si urbem eo loco haberent et moenibus se tenerent? nempe oppugnandi erant. quid? ad Thermopylas aequone loco M’. Acilius cum rege Antiocho pugnavit?

[3] quid? Philippum non eodem modo super Aoum amnem iuga tenentem montium T. Quinctius deiecit? equidem adhuc, qualem aut sibi fingant aut vobis videri velint hostem fuisse, non invenio.

[4] si degenerem et emollitum amoenitate Asiae, quid periculi vel iniquo loco subeuntibus fuit? si timendum et feritate animorum et robore corporum, huicine tantae victoriae triumphum negatis?

[5] caeca invidia est, patres conscripti, nec quicquam aliud scit quam detractare virtutes, corrumpere honores ac praemia earum.

[6] mihi quaeso ita ignoscatis, patres couscripti, conscripti, si longiorem orationem non cupiditas gloriandi de me, sed necessaria criminum defensio fecit.

[7] an etiam per Thraciam saltus patentes, qui angusti erant, et plana ex arduis et culta ex silvestribus facere potui et praestare, necubi notis sibi latebris delitescerent latrones Thraces,

[8] ne quid sarcinarum raperetur, ne quod iumentum ex tanto agmine abstraheretur, ne quis vulneraretur, ne ex vulnere vir fortis ac strenuus Q. Minucius moreretur?

[9] in hoc casu, quo infeliciter incidit, ut talem civem amitteremus, haerent;

[10] quod saltu iniquo, loco alieno cum adortus nos hostis esset, duae simul acies primi et novissimi agminis haerentem ad impedimenta nostra exercitum barbarorum circumvenerunt, quod multa milia illo ipso die,

[11] plura multo post dies paucos ceciderunt et ceperunt, hoc, si ipsi tacuerint, vos scituros, cum testis orationis meae totus exercitus sit, non credunt?

[12] si gladium in Asia non strinxissem, si hostem non vidissem, tamen proconsul triumphum in Thracia duobus proeliis merueram. sed iam dictum satis est;

[13] quin pro eo, quod pluribus verbis vos quam vellem fatigavi, veniam a vobis petitam impetratamque velim, patres conscripti.”

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Livy in Fourteen Volumes. Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Schlesinger, Alfred C., editors. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959 (printing).) — 43.23 focus

[1]

Rex cum non ¹ minore vexatione iumentorum hominumque quam venerat in Macedoniam rediit; Appium tamen ab obsidione Phanotes fama ducentis ad Stratum Persei summovit.

[2] Cleuas cum praesidio impigrorum iuvenum insecutus sub radicibus prope inviis montium ² ad mille hominum ex agmine impedito occidit, ad ducentos cepit.

[3] Appius superatis angustiis in campo quem Meleona vocant stativa dierum paucorum habuit. interim Cleuas assumpto Philostrato, qui quingentos ex ³ Epirotarum gente habebat, in agrum Antigonensem transcendit. ⁴ Macedones ad depopulationem profecti;

[4] Philostratus⁵ cum cohorte sua in insidiis loco ⁶ obscuro consedit. in palatos populatores cum erupissent ab Antigonea armati, ⁷ fugientes eos persequentes effusius in vallem insessam ab hostibus praecipitant.

[5] ibi ad mille ⁸ occisis, centum ferme captis, et ubique prospere gesta re prope stativa Appi castra movent, ne qua vis sociis suis ab Romano exercitu inferri possit.

[6] Appius nequiquam in his locis terens tempus, dimissis Chaonum Thesprotorumque ⁹ et si qui alii Epirotae erant praesidiis, cum Italicis militibus in Illyricum regressus, per Parthinorum ¹⁰ socias urbes in hiberna militibus divisis, ¹¹ ipse Romam sacrificii causa redit.

[7] Perseus ex Penestarum gente mille pedites, ducentos equites revocatos Cassandream, praesidio ut essent, misit.

[8] Ab Gentio eadem adferentes redierunt. nec deinde alios atque alios mittendo temptare eum destitit, cum appareret, quantum in eo praesidii esset, nec tamen impetrare ab animo posset, ut impensam in rem maximi ad omnia momenti faceret.

Ab urbe condita libri, erklärt von M. Weissenborn Perseus (Weissenborn, W.; Müller, H. J., editors. Berlin: Weidmannsche Buchhandlung, 1873-1883.) — 38.49 focus

[1]

iniquo enim loco dimicavi. dic igitur, quo aequiore potuerim dimicare. cum montem hostes cepissent, loco munito se tenerent, nempe eundum ad hostes erat, si vincere vellem.

[2] quid? si urbem eo loco haberent et moenibus se tenerent? nempe oppugnandi erant. quid? ad Thermopylas aequone loco M'. Acilius cum rege Antiocho pugnavit?

[3] quid? Philippum non eodem modo super Aoum amnem iuga tenentem montium T. Quinctius deiecit? equidem adhuc, qualem aut sibi fingant aut vobis videri velint hostem fuisse, non invenio.

[4] si degenerem et emollitum amoenitate Asiae, quid periculi vel iniquo loco subeuntibus fuit? si timendum et feritate animorum et robore corporum, huicine tantae victoriae triumphum negatis?

[5] caeca invidia est, patres conscripti, nec quicquam aliud scit quam detractare ¹ virtutes, corrumpere honores ac praemia earum.

[6] mihi quaeso ita ignoscatis, patres conscripti, si longiorem orationem non cupiditas gloriandi de me, sed necessaria criminum defensio fecit.

[7] an etiam per Thraciam saltus patentes, qui angusti erant, et plana ex arduis et culta ex silvestribus facere potui et praestare, necubi notis sibi latebris delitescerent latrones Thraces,

[8] ne quid sarcinarum raperetur, ne quod iumentum ex tanto agmine abstraheretur, ne quis vulneraretur, ne ex vulnere vir fortis ac strenuus Q. Minucius moreretur?

[9] in hoc casu, quo infeliciter incidit, ut talem civem amitteremus, haerent;

[10] quod saltu iniquo, loco alieno cum adortus nos hostis esset, duae simul acies primi et novissimi agminis haerentem ad impedimenta nostra exercitum barbarorum circumvenerunt,

[11] quod multa milia ipso die, plura multo post dies paucos ceciderunt et ceperunt, hoc, si ipsi tacuerint, vos scituros, cum testis orationis meae totus exercitus sit, non credunt?

[12] si gladium in Asia non strinxissem, si hostem non vidissem, tamen ² [proconsul] triumphum in Thracia duobus proeliis merueram.

[13] sed iam dictum satis est; quin pro eo, quod pluribus verbis vos quam vellem fatigavi, veniam a vobis petitam impetratamque velim, patres conscripti.”

Translations (2)

History of Rome Perseus (Spillan, D.; Edmonds, Cyrus; McDevitte, William A., translators. London: Henry G. Bohn, 1849-1868. (Bohn's Classical Library)) — 38.49 focus

[1]

Now, since the charge respecting the undertaking of the war has been fully refuted, I must account for my conduct in the prosecution of it. In which, indeed, I should perfectly confide in the merits of my cause, though I were pleading, not before a Roman, but before a Carthaginian senate, by whom their commanders are said to be crucified, if they act on wrong plans, even with success.

[2]

But in such a state as this, which, in the commencement and progress of every undertaking, makes application to the gods on this account, because it subjects to no malicious cavilling those plans of which the gods have approved; and which, in the established form, when it decrees a supplication or triumph, uses these words, —'For

[3]

having conducted the business of the public successfully and fortunately;' if I should be unwilling, if I should think it presumptuous and arrogant to boast of my own bravery, and if I should demand, in consideration of my own good fortune, and that of my army, in having vanquished so great a nation, without any loss of men, that thanks should be given to the immortal gods, and that I should ascend the Capitol in triumph, from whence I took my departure, with vows duly offered;

[4]

—would you refuse this to me, and the immortal gods? Yes; for I fought on unfavourable ground.

[5]

Tell me, then, on what more favourable ground could I have fought, when the enemy had seized on a mountain, and kept themselves in a strong post; surely, if I wished to conquer them, I must go where they were. What if they had a town on the same spot, and kept within the walls: surely they must be attacked.

[6]

Did Manlius Acilius fight with Antiochus, at Thermopylae, on favourable ground? Did not Titus Quintius dislodge Philip when he was posted in the same manner, on the tops of mountains, over the river Aous? Truly I cannot yet discover what sort of an enemy they may represent to themselves, or in what light they may wish them to appear to you.

[7]

If as being degenerate and softened by the pleasures of Asia, what danger was there in advancing against them even on unfavourable ground? If formidable, both for fierceness of courage and strength of body, do you refuse a triumph to victories so honourable? Conscript fathers, envy is blind, and only capable of depreciating merit, and poisoning its honours and rewards.

[8]

Pardon me, I beseech you, conscript fathers, on these conditions, if it be the case that the necessary reply to the accusation, and not my desire of boasting of my exploits, hath made my speech too long.

[9]

Whether could I, in my march through Thrace, create open glades out of narrow defiles, and level plains out of steep precipices, and fields out of woods, and insure that the Thracian plunderers should not lurk any where in those concealments which they were acquainted with;

[10]

that none of our packages should be snatched away, none of our loaded horses, out of so large a train, led off; that no one should be wounded; and that the brave and active Lucius Minucius should not die of his wound? On this mischance, by which we unfortunately lost so valuable a citizen, those men declaim profusely.

[11]

That the enemy attacked us in a dangerous pass, where every advantage of ground was against us; that our two divisions, the front and the rear, surrounded by a combined movement the army of the barbarians, while they were employed about our baggage; that they killed and took prisoners many thousands on that day; and, in a few days after, many more; —do they imagine that you would not ascertain this, even if they passed it over in silence, when the whole army can testify the truth of what I assert?

[12]

If I had never drawn a sword in Asia, if I had never seen an enemy there, yet, by the two battles fought in Thrace, I had merited a triumph, as proconsul.

[13]

But I have said enough, and shall only request, and, I should hope, obtain, your pardon, conscript fathers, for having troubled you longer than I could have wished to do.

History of Rome Perseus (Volumes 1-2. Roberts, Canon, Rev, translator. London, New York: J. M. Dent and Sons; E. P. Dutton and Co., 1912.) — 38.49 focus

[1]

"But, they say, I fought on unfavourable ground. Then tell me where I could have fought at less disadvantage. The enemy had occupied the mountain, they kept themselves within their lines; surely if I was to win the battle it was necessary for me to advance against them.

[2] How would it have been if they had been holding a city there and keeping within its walls? Of course, they must have been attacked. Why, did not Manius Acilius engage Antiochus on unfavourable ground at Thermopylae?

[3] Did not T. Quinctius under similar conditions dislodge Philip when he was holding the heights above the Aous? So far I am unable to make out what sort of an enemy they are picturing to themselves, or in what light they wish you to regard him.

[4] If they say that he has degenerated and become enervated by the attractions and luxuries of Asia, what risk did we run in attacking him even when we were in a bad position?

[5] If they regard him as formidable, owing to ferocity and physical strength, do you refuse a triumph for so great a victory? Envy, senators, is blind and knows no other method than that of disparaging merit and soiling its honours and rewards.

[6] I crave your indulgence, senators, if the necessity of defending myself against accusations, and not a desire to sound my praises, has made my speech somewhat long.

[7] Was it in my power when marching through Thrace to make the narrow passes into open country, the broken road into level ground, the forests into open fields?

[8] Could I have made such dispositions as to prevent the Thracian banditti from concealing themselves in lurking-places with which they were perfectly familiar, or any of our baggage from being stolen, or any pack animal from being carried off from so long a column, or a single man from being wounded, or that gallant soldier, Q. Minucius, from dying of his wounds?

[9] They make a great point of that sad misfortune, involving as it did the loss of so good a citizen.

[10] But the fact of our two divisions at the front and rear of the column having hemmed in the barbarians when busy in looting our baggage, after attacking in a difficult pass on ground wholly against us;

[11] the fact that those two divisions killed or took prisoners many thousands of the enemy on that day and many more a few days later-if they have been silent as to these facts, are they not aware that you will know them when the whole army can testify to what I say?

[12] If I had never drawn the sword in Asia, or seen an enemy there, I should still have deserved a triumph for those two battles in Thrace.

[13] But I have said enough and would only ask for and, I hope, receive your indulgence for having wearied you by speaking at greater length than I wished."

Notes on the current edition

Ab Urbe Condita With An English Translation, books 1-10, 21-45, with periochae 11-20

1. B.C. 187

2. Livy said nothing of this vengeance in his account of the battle (xl —xli above), and his whole picture of the episode differs greatly from that of Manlius. It is impossible to judge their relative accuracy.

3. This pair of speeches, taken with the narrative which covers the ground of both, may furnish a test for the historical accuracy of both the speeches and the narrative. It will be observed that both speeches contain statements of historical facts which are not mentioned in the narrative. Polybius gives us no help, but the account of the return journey given by Appian ( Syr. 43) is even more hostile than the speech of Furius Aemilius. One is inclined to conclude that the speeches are better rhetoric than history, and that the narrative would have been improved if some items in the speeches (cf. the preceding note) had been critically examined. The tone of the narrative makes it impossible to believe that Livy followed Claudius at this point (cf. xxiii. 8 and the note), but there is no other clue to the source.

Titus Livius (Livy) Ab urbe condita 38.49

Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor)

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