Titus Livius (Livy), Ab urbe condita, Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor), 34.2

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[1] "If each of us, citizens, had determined to assert his rights and dignity as a husband with respect to his own spouse, we should have less trouble with the sex as a whole;

[2] as it is, our liberty, destroyed at home by female violence, even here in the Forum is crushed and trodden underfoot, and because we have not kept them individually under control, we dread them collectively.

[3] For my part, I thought it a fairy-tale and a piece of fiction that on a certain island all the men were destroyed, root and branch, by a conspiracy of women;¹ but from no class is there not the greatest danger if you permit them meetings and gatherings and secret consultations.

[4] And I can scarcely decide in my own mind whether the act itself or the precedent it sets is worse; the act concerns us consuls and other magistrates; the example, citizens, rather concerns you.²

[5] For whether the proposal which is laid before you is in the public interest or not is a question for you who are soon to cast your votes; but this female madness, whether it is spontaneous or due to your instigation, Marcus Fundanius and Lucius Valerius, but which beyond question brings discredit upon the magistrates — I

[6] do not know, I say, whether this madness is more shameful for you, tribunes, or for the consuls: for you, if you have brought³ these women here to support tribunicial seditions; for us, if we must accept laws given us by a secession of women, as formerly by a secession of plebeians.⁴

[7] For myself, I could not conceal my blushes a while ago, when I had to make my way to the Forum through a crowd of women.

[8] Had not respect for the dignity and modesty of some individuals among them rather than of the sex as a whole kept me silent, lest they should seem to have been rebuked by a consul, I should have said, 'What sort of practice is this, of running out into the streets and blocking the roads and speaking to other women's husbands?

[9] Could you not have made the same requests, each of your own husband, at home? Or are you more attractive outside and to other women's husbands than to your own?

[10] And yet, not even at home, if modesty would keep matrons within the limits of their proper rights, did it become you to concern yourselves with the question of what laws should be adopted in this place or repealed.'

[11] Our ancestors permitted no woman to conduct even personal business without a guardian to intervene in her behalf;⁵ they wished them to be under the control of fathers, brothers, husbands; we (Heaven help us!) allow them now even to interfere in public affairs, yes, and to visit the Forum and our informal and formal sessions.⁶ What else are they doing now on the streets and at the corners except urging the bill of the tribunes and voting for the repeal of the law?

[12] Give loose rein to their uncontrollable nature and to this untamed creature and expect that they will themselves set bounds to their licence;

[13] unless you act, this is the least of the things enjoined upon women by custom or law and to which they⁷ submit with a feeling of injustice.

[14] It is complete liberty or, rather, if we wish to speak the truth, complete licence that they desire.

Ab urbe condita. Titus Livius (Livy). Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor). Medford, MA. .

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

History of Rome (English) (Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Sage, Evan T.; Schlesinger, Alfred C., translators. Cambridge, Mass.; London: Harvard University Press; William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959. (Loeb Classical Library))

Editions (3)

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Pars I-IV, Libri I-XL. Editio Stereotypica. Weissenborn, Wilhelm; Mueller, Moritz, editors. Leipzig: Teubner, 1884-1911.) — 34.2 focus

[1] “si in sua quisque nostrum matre familiae, Quirites, ius et maiestatem viri retinere instituisset, minus cum universis feminis negotii haberemus;

[2] nunc domi vieta victa libertas nostra impotentia muliebri hic quoque in foro obteritur et calcatur, et, quia singulas non continuimus,

[3] universas horremus. equidem fabulam et fictam rem ducebam esse, virorum omne genus in aliqua insula coniuratione muliebri ab stirpe sublatum esse;

[4] ab nullo genere non summum periculum est, si coetus et concilia et secretas consultationes esse sinas. atque ego vix statuere apud animum meum possum, utrum peior ipsa res an peiore exemplo agatur;

[5] quorum alterum ad nos consules reliquosque magistratus, alterum ad vos, Quirites, magis pertinet. nam utrum e re publica sit necne id, quod ad vos fertur, vestra existimatio est, qui in suffragium ituri estis;

[6] haec consternatio muliebris, sive sua sponte sive auctoribus vobis, M. Fundani et L. Valeri, facta est, baud haud dubie ad culpam magistratuum pertinens, nescio, vobis, tribuni, an consulibus magis sit deformis:

[7] vobis, si feminas ad concitandas tribunicias seditiones iam adduxistis; nobis, si, ut plebis quondam, sic nunc mulierum secessione leges accipiendae sunt.

[8] equidem non sine rubore quodam paulo ante per medium agmen mulierum in forum perveni. quod nisi me verecundia singularum magis maiestatis et pudoris quam universarum tenuisset, ne compellatae a consule viderentur,

[9] dixissem: “qui hic mos est in publicum procurrendi et obsidendi vias et viros alienos appellandi? istud ipsum suos quaeque domi rogare non potuistis?

[10] an blandiores in publico quam in privato et alienis quam vestris estis? quamquam ne domi quidem vos, si sui iuris finibus matronas contineret pudor, quae leges hic rogarentur abrogarenturve, curare decuit.”

[11] maiores nostri nullam, ne privatam quidem rem agere feminas sine tutore auctore voluerunt, in manu esse parentium, fratrum, virorum; nos, si diis placet, iam etiam rem publicam capessere eas patimur et foro quoque et contionibus et comitiis immisceri.

[12] quid enim nunc aliud per vias et compita faciunt, quam rogationem tribunorum plebi suadent, quam legem abrogandam censent?

[13] date frenos impotenti naturae et indomito animali et sperate ipsas modum licentiae facturas;

[14] nisi vos feceritis, minimum hoc eorum est, quae iniquo animo feminae sibi aut moribus aut legibus iniuncta patiuntur. omnium rerum libertatem, immo licentiam, si vere dicere volumus, desiderant.

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Livy in Fourteen Volumes. Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Schlesinger, Alfred C., editors. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959 (printing).) — 30.2 focus

[1]

In Siciliam tria milia militum sunt scripta, quia ¹ quod roboris ea provincia habuerat in Africam transvectum fuerat; et quia, ² ne qua classis ex ³ Africa traiceret, quadraginta navibus custodiri placuerat Siciliae maritumam oram,

[2] tredecim novas naves Villius secum in Siciliam duxit, ceterae in Sicilia veteres refectae.

[3] huic classi M. Pomponius, prioris anni praetor, prorogato imperio praepositus novos milites ex Italia advectos in naves imposuit.

[4] parem navium numerum Cn. Octavio, praetori item prioris anni, cum pari iure imperii ad tuendam Sardiniae oram patres decreverunt; Lentulus praetor duo milia militum dare in naves iussus.

[5] et Italiae ora, quia incertum erat quo missuri classem Carthaginienses forent—videbantur autem quidquid nudatum praesidiis esset petituri—M. Marcio, praetori prioris anni, cum totidem navibus tuenda data est.

[6] tria milia militum in eam ⁴ classem ex decreto patrum consules scripserunt et duas legiones urbanas ad incerta belli.

[7] Hispaniae cum exercitibus imperioque veteribus imperatoribus, L. Lentulo et L. Manlio Acidino, decretae. viginti omnino legionibus et centum sexaginta navibus longis res Romana eo anno gesta.

[8] praetores in provincias ire iussi. consulibus imperatum ut, ⁵ priusquam ab urbe proficiscerentur, ludos magnos facerent quos T. Manlius Torquatus ⁶ dictator in quintum annum vovisset, si eodem statu res publica staret.

[9] et novas religiones excitabant in animis hominum prodigia ex pluribus locis nuntiata. aurum in Capitolio corvi non lacerasse tantum rostris crediti sed etiam edisse;

[10] mures Antii coronam auream adrosere; ⁷ circa Capuam omnem agrum locustarum vis ingens, ita ut unde advenissent parum constaret, complevit;

[11] eculeus Reate cum quinque pedibus natus; Anagniae sparsi primum ignes in caelo, dein fax ingens arsit;

[12] frusinone arcus solem tenui linea amplexus est, circulum deinde ipsum maior solis orbis extrinsecus inclusit; Arpini terra campestri agro ⁸ in ingentem sinum consedit;

[13] consulum alteri primam hostiam immolanti caput iocineris defuit. ea prodigia maioribus hostiis procurata; editi a collegio pontificum dei quibus sacrificaretur.

Ab urbe condita libri, erklärt von M. Weissenborn Perseus (Weissenborn, W.; Müller, H. J., editors. Berlin: Weidmannsche Buchhandlung, 1873-1883.) — 34.2 focus

[1]

‘si in sua quisque nostrum matre familiae, Quirites, ius et maiestatem viri retinere instituisset, minus cum universis feminis negotii haberemus;

[2] nunc domi victa libertas nostra impotentia muliebri hic quoque in foro obteritur et calcatur, et, quia singulas non continuimus, universas horremus.

[3] equidem fabulam et fictam rem ducebam esse, virorum omne genus in aliqua insula coniuratione muliebri ab stirpe sublatum esse;

[4] ab nullo genere non summum periculum est, si coetus et concilia et secretas consultationes esse sinas. atque ego vix statuere apud animum meum ¹ possum, utrum peior ipsa res an peiore exemplo agatur;

[6] haec consternatio muliebris, sive sua sponte sive auctoribus vobis, M. Fundani et L. Valeri , facta est, haud dubie ad culpam magistratuum pertinens, nescio, vobis, tribuni, an consulibus magis sit deformis:

[7] vobis, si feminas ad concitandas tribunicias seditiones iam adduxistis; nobis, si, ut plebis quondam, sic nunc mulierum secessione leges accipiendae sunt.

[9] ‘qui hic mos est in publicum procurrendi et obsidendi vias et viros alienos appellandi apellandi ? istud ipsum suos quaeque domi rogare non potuistis?

[11] ’ maiores nostri nullam, ne privatam quidem rem agere feminas sine tutore auctore voluerunt, in manu esse parentium, fratrum, virorum; nos, si diis placet, iam etiam rem publicam capessere eas patimur et foro quoque et ³ contionibus et comitiis immisceri.

[12] quid enim nunc aliud per vias et compita faciunt, quam rogationem tribunorum plebi suadent, quam legem abrogandam censent?

[13] date frenos impotenti naturae et indomito animali et sperate ipsas modum licentiae facturas;

[14] nisi vos facietis, minimum hoc eorum est, quae iniquo animo feminae sibi aut moribus aut legibus iniuncta patiuntur. omnium rerum libertatem, immo licentiam, si vere dicere volumus, desiderant.

Translations (2)

History of Rome Perseus (Spillan, D.; Edmonds, Cyrus; McDevitte, William A., translators. London: Henry G. Bohn, 1849-1868. (Bohn's Classical Library)) — 34.2 focus

[1]

"If, Romans, every individual among us had made it a rule to maintain the prerogative and authority of a husband with respect to his own wife, we should have less trouble with the whole sex.

[2] But now, our privileges, overpowered at home by female contumacy, are, even here in the forum, spurned and trodden under foot; and because we are unable to withstand each separately, we now dread their collective body.

[3] I was accustomed to think it a fabulous and fictitious tale, that, in a certain island, the whole race of males was utterly extirpated by a conspiracy of the women.

[4] But the utmost danger may be apprehended equally from either sex, if you suffer cabals, assemblies, and secret consultations to be held: scarcely, indeed, can I determine, in my own mind, whether the act itself, or the precedent that it affords, is of more pernicious tendency. The latter of these more particularly concerns us consuls, and the other magistrates: the former, yourselves, my fellow-citizens.

[5] For, whether the measure proposed to your consideration be profitable to the state or not, is to be determined by you, who are about to go to the vote. As to the outrageous behaviour of these women, whether it be merely an act of their own, or owing to your instigations, Marcus Fundanius and Lucius Valerius, it unquestionably implies culpable conduct in magistrates.

[6] I know not whether it reflects greater disgrace on you, tribunes, or on the consuls: on you certainly, if you have, on the present occasion, brought these women hither for the purpose of raising tribunitian seditions;

[7] on us, if we suffer laws to be imposed on us by a secession of women, as was done formerly by that of the common people. It was not without painful emotions of shame, that I, just now, made my way into the forum through the midst of a band of women.

[8] Had I not been restrained by respect for the modesty and dignity of some individuals among them, rather than of the whole number, and been unwilling that they should be seen rebuked by a consul, I should have said to them, 'What sort of practice is this, of running out into public, besetting the streets, and addressing other women's husbands?

[9] Could not each have made the same request to her husband at home? Are your blandishments more seducing in public than in private; and with other women's husbands, than with your own?

[10] Although if the modesty of matrons confined them within the limits of their own rights, it did not become you, even at home, to concern yourselves about what laws might be passed or repealed here.' Our ancestors thought it not proper that women should perform any, even private business, without a director; but that they should be ever under the control of parents, brothers, or husbands.

[11] We, it seems, suffer them, now, to interfere in the management of state affairs, and to introduce themselves into the forum, into general assemblies, and into assemblies of election. For, what are they doing, at this moment, in your streets and lanes? What, but arguing, some in support of the motion of the plebeian tribunes; others, for the repeal of the law?

[12] Will you give the reins to their intractable nature, and their uncontrolled passions, and then expect that themselves should set bounds to their licentiousness, when you have failed to do so?

[13] This is the smallest of the injunctions laid on them by usage or the laws, all which women bear with impatience:

[14] they long for liberty; or rather, to speak the truth, for unbounded freedom in every particular. For what will they not attempt, if they now come off victorious?

History of Rome Perseus (Volumes 1-2. Roberts, Canon, Rev, translator. London, New York: J. M. Dent and Sons; E. P. Dutton and Co., 1912.) — 34.2 focus

[1]

"If we had, each one of us, made it a rule to uphold the rights and authority of the husband in our own households we should not now have this trouble with the whole body of our women.

[2] As things are now our liberty of action, which has been checked and rendered powerless by female despotism at home, is actually crushed and trampled on here in the Forum, and because we were unable to withstand them individually we have now to dread their united strength.

[3] I used to think that it was a fabulous story which tells us that in a certain island the whole of the male sex was extirpated by a conspiracy amongst the women;

[4] there is no class of women from whom the gravest dangers may not arise, if once you allow intrigues, plots, secret cabals to go on. I can hardly make up my mind which is worse, the affair itself or the disastrous precedent set up.

[5] The latter concerns us as consuls and magistrates; the former has to do more with you, Quirites. Whether the measure before you is for the good of the commonwealth or not is for you to determine by your votes; this tumult amongst the women, whether a spontaneous movement or due to your instigation, M. Fundanius and L. Valerius, certainly points to failure on the part of the magistrates, but whether it reflects more on you tribunes or on the consuls I do not know.

[6] It brings the greater discredit on you if you have carried your tribunitian agitation so far as to create unrest among the women, but more disgrace upon us if we have to submit to

[7] laws being imposed upon us through fear of a secession on their part, as we had to do formerly on occasions of the secession of the plebs. It was not without a feeling of shame that I made my way into the Forum through a regular army of women.

[8] Had not my respect for the dignity and modesty of some amongst them, more than any consideration for them as a whole, restrained me from letting them be publicly rebuked by a consul, I should have said, 'What is this habit you have formed of running abroad and blocking the streets and accosting men who are strangers to you?

[9] Could you not each of you put the very same question to your husbands at home? Surely you do not make yourselves more attractive in public than in private, to other women's husbands more than to your own?

[10] If matrons were kept by their natural modesty within the limits of their rights, it would be most unbecoming for you to trouble yourselves even at home about the laws which may be passed or repealed here.' Our ancestors would have no woman transact even private business except through her guardian, they placed them under the tutelage of parents or brothers or husbands.

[11] We suffer them now to dabble in politics and mix themselves up with the business of the Forum and public debates and election contests. What are they doing now in the public roads and at the street corners but recommending to the plebs the proposal of their tribunes and voting for the repeal of the law.

[12] Give the reins to a headstrong nature, to a creature that has not been tamed, and then hope that they will themselves set bounds to their licence if you do not do it yourselves.

[13] This is the smallest of those restrictions which have been imposed upon women by ancestral custom or by laws, and which they submit to with such impatience.

[14] What they really want is unrestricted freedom, or to speak the truth, licence, and if they win on this occasion what is there that they will not attempt?

Notes on the current edition

Ab Urbe Condita With An English Translation, books 1-10, 21-45, with periochae 11-20

1. Cato must refer to the story of Hypsipyle (Herodotus VI. 138; Hyginus, Fabulae 15), who, however, saved her father Thoas, king of Lemnos, when all the other men on the island were murdered by the women.

2. Cato's point is that it was the duty of the magistrates to suppress the gathering of the women as a disturbance of the peace and that it was the duty of the citizens to defeat the proposal to repeal, lest success at this time embolden the women to interfere with legislation on other occasions.

3. B.C. 195

4. The plebeian secession of 494 B.C.

5. A woman was never sui iuris and was not a person in the legal sense. If she was not under the potestas of a father or the manus of a husband, a tutor was appointed to act for her in legal matters.

6. See note on XXXI. vii. 2 above.

7. B.C. 195

Titus Livius (Livy) Ab urbe condita 34.2

Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor)

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